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Old 08-14-2003, 07:29 AM   #1
Kern
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Question Shower Window - Vinyl or Block for waterproofing

Greetings Construction/Tile Gurus,

Having explored your forum, it is obvious that the forum is simply the best place for advice of its kind. Your help is given in a kind and courteous manner and I thank you all in advance for any help/insight/warnings you provide. Also, I apologize in advance for any spelling or terminology mistakes I know I will make...

In my 1968 or so house I have gutted the typical 8'x5' bathroom to the studs with exception of the ceiling (Unfortunatly no digital camera available). I intend to get John's book to help me throught the rebuilding process, but I need specific advice regarding the window in the shower/tub area.

I have purchased a replacement window (approx. 20" x 40") for the old wooden one, but I have been told that I will still need a curtain to protect the window. I'd very much like to avoid the curtain...Is there such thing as a waterproof vinyl replacement window installation for the shower? If so please advise...

If not, or if it is supremely difficult, then I will gladly remove the sash of the old window and use glass block in the rough opening (approx. 24" x 44"), but I have been unable to find how to treat the RO so as to waterproof before glass block installation. I know the information is around, but I'll be darned if I can find it. I very much doubt it is as simple as installing the glass block on the wood of the RO...how do I protect the interior and exterior from water?

In sum, I would like the best waterproof shower window....
1. Should it be a vinyl replacement window or glass block?
2. Step by step, how do I prep the RO or sash, given the answer to Q1, for waterproof install?

Thanks!
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Old 08-14-2003, 06:30 PM   #2
Davy
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Hi Kern, welcome. Yes, they do make vinyl windows that can be used in showers. In a tub/shower I like a small window. Maybe 12" tall and 24 or 36" wide. I like them up high, the bottom of the window about 6 ft high. Very little water will ever get up there.

With glass block the rough opening can be wrapped with felt paper. Sometimes I will put a strip of wire lath around over the paper to give the mud something to grab to. The rough opening must be made for full blocks, can't cut them.
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Old 08-14-2003, 06:54 PM   #3
David Dodson
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Waterproof window

I recently completed a shower which had a 16"x20" awning window made by united windows (~$200). It's 100% vinyl. I just scuffed the surface of the vinyl and used laticrete 9235 to lap up over the wallboard and onto the window "sill" then finished it off with mudcap.

Regards,
David Dodson
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Old 08-14-2003, 07:10 PM   #4
John Bridge
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Welcome aboard, Kern.

Guess that's Willmington, DE, as in Yankee, right?

I'm not trying to start trouble. It's just that I don't know what types of windows are common up that way.

We use a lot of anodized aluminum sash windows down here, and they hold up well in showers. And I think any vinyl sash window will do fine.
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Old 08-14-2003, 08:07 PM   #5
cx
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Now, John, he clearly indicated it were Wilmington, MA. Try to pay more attention, will ya.

Pay no attention to JB, Kern, he can't tell one kinda Yankee from another.

Does the window you want need to be operable?

What is the finish on the outside of the house?

Vinyl window units can be order in virtually any size. You would be defeating the purpose to try to fit it into an existing wood window frame, which seems to be what you're trying to do.

Maybe we're having a definition problem. The sash is the part of the window with the glass in it, some of which usually is operable. The sash or sashes are installed in a frame, or jamb. You need to remove more than just the sash to do yourself any real good on the inside of the shower, but that usually means some work on the outside of the house, too.

We on the same page?
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Old 08-15-2003, 06:03 AM   #6
John Bridge
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Sorry, Kern. My browser wrapped the MA down onto another line.
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Old 08-15-2003, 09:16 AM   #7
Kern
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Ha! This forum's good natured ribbing is one of the things that keeps it light and approachable for us newbies. For example, if a newbie called a frame a sash, and I don't know who would ever do that, he knows the experts will probably still talk to him. Perhaps after a bit more good natured ribbing...

A digital camera would be key, but alas I do not have one...attached is a drawing of the window FRAME (not sash) and the RO. Low tech, but it should work...

The yellow is the frame of the old window. I have a 20" x 40"replacement double hung vinyl window with tempered, frosted glass for the old window's wooden frame, but am concerned I can't waterproof it. Felt paper on the inside of the old wooden frame?

The picture also shows the 24" x 44" RO that the old window frame is in...According to the glass block matrix, I can just fit 4 x 7 6" square blocks in the opening...

The outside of the window is has flashing and vinyl siding...

I looking for the solution that will be waterproof without a curtain...perhaps either will work with the lacrete and felt paper, but the wooden frame of the old window has me concerned, especially given the sill slants outwards (I've read the thread to correct this with another piece of wood, but it seems water would still be a concern.

I hope that is more clear...I'll work on convincing my wife that a digital camera is a necessity in this day and age!

Thanks!

Kern




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Old 08-15-2003, 03:37 PM   #8
John Bridge
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So Kern, you want to insert a sash into your frame. Is that it?

I would tear out the wood frame and be done with it. I would adapt the hole to fit a window that is closest to the size needed.
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Old 08-15-2003, 03:49 PM   #9
Woody
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Welcome Kern,
I would check code on your window in shower area.
I believe it needs to be tempered glass if it's within 60" of the floor.
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Old 08-15-2003, 06:32 PM   #10
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If you wanna use that replacement sash you already have, maybe the easiest thing would be to fur out your rough opening on the inside so you could put mud or CBU right up to the edge of the new vinyl part and waterproof the whole of that area with a trowel-on membrane as DavidD suggested. Don't know if any of it is advertised to stick to vinyl, though.

Actually, might be better off doing the furring and mudding/CBUing first (sloping your sill as you know you must), then waterproof the entire jamb area including where the new sash will sit, then set your new sash, then tile up to it and caulk the tile/vinyl joint. That way you don't hafta remove the old jamb and rework the outside of the house.


His new sash is tempered, Woody, but good point.
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Old 08-15-2003, 09:58 PM   #11
Woody
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I'm sorry I didn't pick up on tempered in description on first read Kern.
Now I know why I just lurk!!!
Thanks for being kind in showing me my error CX...........
Just a recurring problem with me when explaining to customers I have to use tempered glass and they say " the regular glass has been fine till now"
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Old 08-16-2003, 04:18 PM   #12
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I gotta get this straightened out. His sash isn't tempered; his "pane" is tempered. The "sash" is made of vinyl, and he wants to put it in the original wood "frame."



What do you do, Woody? I mean what sort of jobs do you usually take on?
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Old 08-16-2003, 10:47 PM   #13
cx
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Umm, John? His glass isn't a "pane" unless it's framed, and in this case his tempered glass is framed by the vinyl, making in all a "sash", ergo his sash is tempered.

We gonna hafta take this to arbitration, or what?

Kern, pay no mind to this frivolous banter. Just remember that John was the one couldn't tell what kinda Yankee you were and that CX was the one hadta straighten him out, eh?

Woody:

Not being kind, remembering all the times I, and even the big-time moderators hereabouts, miss something in one of the posts.

So, like JB done axed, what is it you do that requires you to 'splain code to your customers?
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Old 08-17-2003, 08:09 AM   #14
John Bridge
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I got your pane/pain.
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Old 08-17-2003, 08:22 AM   #15
Woody
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Thanks for splaining Jb & CX!
I am a small general contractor in NJ. In 25th year of business.
It's always a battle trying to explain to people that I don't make the rules.just have to play by them. Biggest battle is when we have to hard wire whole house for smoke detectors when we are just adding a small addition. But, I now think I am derailing this thread. That said.my thanks to everyone on this forum.you be enjoyment to me everyday!
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