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Old 09-22-2008, 11:45 PM   #1
obsidian97
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Toilet Flange Too High

Hi all,

I have a problem with a toilet replacement. The last guy in (LGI) apparently had to replace the original PVC/ABS (not sure which) flange and did a poor job of it in our basement bathroom.

Long story short, I am left with a plastic flange that is broken on one side and bent on the other side. The closet bolt on the left side therefore has nothing to slide into and the right side is so high that the new American Standard toilet I have (as well as the previous toilet) won't sit flush to the floor.

What do I do? The current flange is no good. I got a super-ring that I was going to bolt onto it, but the flange sits too high. Some folks have said that I should cut out the flange and put the super-ring in alone, but I'm wondering what I would cut?

If I cut the entire flange assembly out, that means cutting it about 3 inches below the concrete (since it extends down into the waste line) and I have no idea how to replace it. If I cut the plastic closet flange part off, I'm still left with a problem because the O.D. of the wax ring horn is exactly the same as the I.D. of the current flange assembly.

Google has resulted in terrible advice. Everything from dissertations on how to use plywood or even cutting boards as shims to what to do for a cast iron flange that's too low in a second story bathroom with total access to the entire waste line out to the curb.

The current assembly looks like a black plastic version of an Oatey Twist-n-lock. The waste line is black plastic.

Help!
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Old 09-23-2008, 04:45 AM   #2
bbcamp
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I moved you to our Advice board, since you are looking for advice. Have you found Terry Love's forum? He deals with plumbing, we do tile.

You have ABS pipe. You need to cut the old flange out using an inside pipe cutter (do a site searce or a web search). You may have to chip out some concrete to glue the new flange in. Also, depending on the flange fitting, you may need to go low enough to install a straight coupling and a short stub of pipe to get everything set at the right height. After you get the flange in, patch the concrete as necessary. Remember to set the flange on top of the finished floor.
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Old 09-23-2008, 05:43 AM   #3
masterbath
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and make sure you use an "outside" flange, not an "inside" flange.
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Old 09-23-2008, 07:41 AM   #4
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Inside pipe cutter is available at Home Depot.

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Old 09-23-2008, 08:09 AM   #5
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dremmel works well too
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Old 09-23-2008, 08:11 AM   #6
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or get a piece of some nice slab and have your toilet sit on a plate, old fashioned style!
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Old 09-23-2008, 01:34 PM   #7
obsidian97
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Hi all,

Thanks for the responses. We did a whole bathroom tile and remodel on this forum so I figured we got good advice the first go-around, why not try a second. I'll check out Terry Love too.

I don't want the toilet to sit on any sort of platform. This is one throne that I don't want on a dais.

As for using an inside pipe cutter, or a dremel, I don't know where or what to cut.

Do I cut the flange off at the floor level and then do something like bolt a super-ring to the floor with a couple of closet bolts? I think the current flange is an inside flange. The I.D. of the current opening is the same diameter as the O.D. of the horn on the wax ring.

If I cut the flange off down inside the waste line (about 3 inches down) then what do I do to build the pipe back up without having to tear up a ton of the floor in the process?

Last edited by obsidian97; 09-23-2008 at 01:41 PM.
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Old 09-23-2008, 01:50 PM   #8
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Quote:
Also, depending on the flange fitting, you may need to go low enough to install a straight coupling and a short stub of pipe to get everything set at the right height. After you get the flange in, patch the concrete as necessary.
Sometimes, the cure appears worse than the disease...
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Old 09-23-2008, 02:01 PM   #9
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Cut off the flat flange top (part with the bolt slots). Next. take a hacksaw blade and cut slots in the part of the flange that fits inside the pipe. Be careful not to cut into the pipe itself. After that's done, you can take a flathead screwdriver and GENTLY pry off the pieces of the flange out of the pipe. Sometimes this works and sometimes it doesn't. There is also a tool called a "Rambit" that will let you drill out the flange fitting.

Now you said that the inside diameter of the flange is the same as the diameter of the horn on the wax ring. That tells me you probably have a 3" line with an inside flange. You don't want that for the new one and you also don't want a wax ring with a plastic horn either. Get a outside fit 3" toilet flange with a stainless ring. If you don't have enough room to slide it over the pipe, you'll have to either chip up the concrete or cut out the subfloor some more depending on what you have. Under no circumstances should you ever put an inside-fit flange in 3" pipe.

Remember also that ABS glue is different front that used for PVC and that the flange is supposed tosit on top of the finished floor.
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Old 09-23-2008, 02:03 PM   #10
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i dont know much about plumbing but cant u replace it with a street flange? The go inside the pipe and expand when you tighten down on 3 bolts? i may be wrong though
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Old 09-23-2008, 02:03 PM   #11
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yea it is a dilema. i faced it too. i had to take an outside union, cut it in half and use a bout a 3 1/2 inch pvc pipe to add length to my flange because my cut put the flange too low. i ended up with about a 1/4 inch too high. i had to shim it a bit in the end
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Old 09-23-2008, 11:58 PM   #12
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Ok, I got brave and cut the old, completely hosed, flange off about even with the floor and chipped/pried the remaining portion that was glued inside the waste line out.

I'm now left with a 3" waste line. Can I install a super-ring into the slab and set the toilet down onto the waste line with a No Seep wax ring/horn or a Fluidmaster Waxless Gasket?
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Last edited by obsidian97; 09-24-2008 at 01:53 AM.
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Old 09-24-2008, 03:32 PM   #13
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No. You have to chip out the concrete around the pipe and glue on a new ABS outside flange. Get one with a stainless steel bolt ring if you can find one. Then fill in hole with some hydraulic cement. Once cured, anchor the flange into the concrete with tapcons or some other concrete anchor. Its the only way you'll get a good enough seal. Once done, set your toilet with a plain wax only ring. You can get slightly thicker ones if you need them but never stack them. That's too much wax and it won't work either.

That super ring is meant to repair flanges, which you don't even have right now. It does nothing to create a watertight seal to the pipe. A fluidmaster waxless seal won't help it any either.
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Old 09-24-2008, 05:14 PM   #14
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Inside mount flanges are a very bad idea on a 3" (ID) pipe. They're okay on a 4" pipe. You need enough room around the outside of the pipe to slide the new flange in place. You need to try to clean things off after chipping the concrete out. You could probably get things started with a carbide drill bit; just don't get so close you damage the pipe. Wear eye protection (and hearing if you are sensitive). A long sleeve shirt doesn't hurt along with gloves. Make sure to get the right glue and use SS screws and a flange iwth a SS ring and you should never have to worry about it again until you decide to replace the tile.
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Old 09-24-2008, 05:21 PM   #15
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And stick a rag in that hole, starting to stink around here.
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