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Old 08-21-2008, 11:59 AM   #16
ceramictec
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definetily not set right from those pictures. with pennyround sheets you need to keep on snapped lines so the visual look of the diagonal straight lines.
you can see he just spread the floor, set them and adjusted as he went. that is what causes the waves. also the mislaid sheet as stated in the first picture doesn't help.
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Old 08-21-2008, 02:37 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by chabang
If I still don't like it, he'll provide labor to retile but I'm on the hook to buy the new tile (700$).
Wrong...if it's the GC's tile installer, both the GC and his boy are on the hook for $700.00 tile and labor. Let them work it out for themselves, it's their problem, not yours and you hang on to that moola' until it's done right. Your first picture clearly shows the sheets of tile layed in alignment instead of staggered, as the pattern on the sheet clearly shows how it should be installed, doh??

There are additional problems with the subway you mentioned...perhaps your GC will find someone more competent when dealing with his tile installations.

JTG is right, this is not the easiest of products to install...which is why you really want someone competent to do the job.
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Old 08-21-2008, 03:00 PM   #18
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i'm looking at the photo's and i think you need to find some else to do the work and recover the costs for the demo, the labor and material you already wasted with this hack. the 'stagger' in the laying of the full sheets is terrible. the uneven and varible cuts at the base are one thing but not even laying the sheets on a layout line...

i noticed the sliver of base tile in the top photo. what is up with that?
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Old 08-21-2008, 04:37 PM   #19
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Al and Jonathan, I totally agree. I don't believe I should be out the 700$ either for the ruined tile. I've never hired a GC before though and am at a loss as to how to proceed. I've already given him a check for 50% of labor (around 2,500$). His plumber did put in the supply lines for the new sink and tub and the wall tile should be able to stay so I do owe him for that labor. What I would like to do is have him bill me for that work, subtract the cost for me to buy new floor tile, and fire him (stopping payment on the original check for 2500). Even if I hire a professional tile installer myself to install new floor tile, I really have no faith that the GC can complete this job with anything approaching adequate worksmanship.
What would you do?
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Old 08-21-2008, 06:13 PM   #20
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really hard to say what you do. i would be 'standing up' to the gc and demanding they fix it or refund your costs. it is likely to late to stop payment on a check. i know if i was the gc i'd have cashed it long ago, especially once you found fault with the work. i think if you paid with plastic you'd have better luck.

if the gc and/or the "tilesetter" are telling you that it is a good job and it isn't really that bad, i would NOT let them make it right. to be right you gotta start over.

i think you are well armed with your photo's and some of the comments from the pro's here. from what i see that "tilesetter" as NOT a professional tilesetter or even a tilesetter. he failed on every level.

without seeing the full room layout and being able to see the variations in the walls it is hard to say if you'd ever get a prefect job with these tiles. working inside the confines of the already laid base tiles make it especially difficult [i suspect the toes of the base tile are waving back and forth].

imho, you might want to use a more forgiving floor tile.
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Old 08-22-2008, 08:47 AM   #21
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Your situation strikes a nerve with me.
$2500 still meets the requirements for small claims court.

Your 50% deposit should more than cover the plumbing already done. If your arrangement is to pay the GC and not the individual contractors, it's his responsibility to see that the plumber is paid.

Don't let him tell you that your refusal to pay up is preventing him from settling up with the innocent hardworking plumber. That's a tactic I've seen before, and it very often works.

If I were you (the customer), I would not pay a dime of the cost required to fix the tile installation. Not the cost of tile, nor the labor for demo or resetting.

I had a similar probem some years ago. Without getting into the ugly details, GC attempted to bill me for everything that had to be fixed, and he charged overtime rate for the labor, even though there was no overtime, and they didn't have a set deadline to meet.

I wrote a letter explaining everything that was wrong and included pictures along with copies of the signed contract and the specifications. I gave this to my lawyer. He read it over and edited the letter a little, then sent it certified mail to the GC (on the lawyer's letterhead). There was no threat but the implied one, and it cost me just $50. After this, I was able to come to an amicable agreement with the GC. I did not pay more money. I'm sure he didn't make much money on the job after this, but I hope he learned to stay on top of the labor he hires, and to read the job specs personally before giving directions to the subs.

There are many GCs who are good at what they do, it's too bad you didn't get one of them.

If they had a problem with your choice of tile, they should have told you up front, or at least stopped after a few sheets didn't go well. You could have then agreed to accept whatever happens, or changed your choice of tiles (or asked for a different installer). Not to be a b#@ch, but I can't see any reasonabe excuse for the bad job on the floor that should cost you any more money.

Do not forget that the GC is your employee for the duration of your project!

Good luck,
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Old 08-22-2008, 09:07 AM   #22
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Chabang,
Your installer botched the job and all of the tile will need to be replaced by either the installer or the GC, who hired him and is carrying the burden on his license. Don't let them tell you otherwise. As the client, you pay for the materials only once, if they have to replace it fifty times, you still only pay once.
Stick to your guns and if they stonewall you, offer to have a representative from Ann Sacks come by as a neutral party. When they finish picking that job apart, your GC might be compelled by shame to make things right.
Best of luck,
Shaughnn
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Old 08-22-2008, 07:10 PM   #23
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Amen to what Shaughn said. You shouldn't pay a dime for that material a second time. If the installer couldn't do a competent job its to them to eat it (or the GC, of course).
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Old 08-23-2008, 01:54 PM   #24
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Thanks again for the feedback from everyone. My deposit check had not yet been cashed (I'm in the service and use USAA bank in TX so out of state) so I stopped payment on it. I called GC and told him I'd pay for work done MINUS 700$ to replace floor tile and labor for floor and to write me up a new bill. He agreed (although later left a phone msg. saying he had the new bill to deliver minus floor labor and didn't mention 700$tile replacement so hope this won't be fight). I still believe the new bill is overcharging by about 300$ since the wall tile also has several problems...some of which I can fix and others I'll learn to live with. Regardless though, I'm in control for now since has no money from me yet. I hired a master tiler who is highly recommended and seems knowledgeable about the issues for this kind of tile. I'm paying a plumber to put in toilet/bath/sink and a handyman to paint and hang cabinets and towel rack. I should have done this in the first place instead of hiring a GC with such a simple remodel! Anway, I'll post pics of the new floor as soon as complete.
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Old 08-23-2008, 03:40 PM   #25
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sound good

imho, you should do the math when you get the bill and only pay what the gc is entitled to, don't cheat him but do NOT cheat yourself. if you write a new check deduct your costs including the stop payment fee and write something like "this check is payment in full" on the check.

on top of that i'd be asking for waivers or some kind of proof of payment [whatever applies in your state] from the gc's subs and suppliers before you pay the gc, you do NOT want to pay the gc and have the subs or suppliers place mechanic liens on your property becuz the gc didn't pay them.

good luck with the floor next time around, you can never layout and trial fit too much...
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Old 08-23-2008, 05:48 PM   #26
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i have never installed this tile before and hope i never have to either, but the only thing the bothers me are the cuts at the threshold and the 2 sheets that are not staggered and the fact that he got the floor grout on the wall grout, that really bothers me alot in this trade.

But overall i dont think its a disgrace but it should be redone. Also some tiles look hazy still. I would set that and use a float to set all the tiles and make them flat also i would use a small notch trowel because the backs of the tiles probably can get close to 100% coverage and probably are flat and smooth.
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Old 08-23-2008, 10:07 PM   #27
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Have I told anyone how much I hate these tile?
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Old 07-02-2009, 10:13 AM   #28
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JTG, Please don't hate the tile. These are gorgeous when properly installed, and they aren't that difficult to install when you're working with someone who knows what they're doing (and a quality tile). As long as the sheets are properly mounted, and Ann Sacks tiles ARE, they should never look like these pictures.

We carry a large selection of penny tiles, and have never had a complaint from a customer or installer, and have never done an installation ourselves that didn't line up properly. True, there are rooms/areas that require some finessing to line the sheets up properly at the edges and corners, but an experienced installer will take the time to do that.

Just my 2 cents....
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Old 07-02-2009, 02:43 PM   #29
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Davestone
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Posts: 15,237 I had the same situation and opted to cut the threshold back and make the penny tile a whole tile...looked much better.
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If they take the halves out, it won't change much. The sheets are not straight and the sill is straight.
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Old 07-02-2009, 03:04 PM   #30
Scottish Tile and Stone
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I think Dave is talking about one of his projects.
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