Pool tiles falling off / pool wall needs repair

[Sean_VA]

AS the picture shows my pool wall is falling apart. How do I fix the wall then replace the tile. It seems that the wall may be cement and then there is a 1/4" material covering the cement - no idea what it is.

I was thinking to chip away all the loose cement and then make a mold and pour new cement and use the sani-tred product to re-seal the cement then replace the tiles.

Is this the best way to do it?

tnks!

[ceramictec]

we have a pool guy that frequents the forum but I will take a shot at answering this for you.

you first have your Gunite shell which will be the main part of the pool,
then you have the Aggregate, Marcite or Plaster as the final coat.

to me it looks like you had settlement, and the crack put pressure and made it pop or water seeped behind the tile and the Aggregate/Marcite/Plaster and popped a chunk out.

you could probably do a few skim coats of a multi purpose mortar to build you back up and set the tile with also.

[Sean_VA]

The plaster is hollow sounding to at least 3 feet down the wall so I will have to remove it. That will leave a large part of the wall with no plaster. What do I use to build up the wall to match the rest of the pool. I hope the pool guy is around!

[ceramictec]

I would have a few pool guys in your area come out and look at it, this might be more then just one area falling off. you might have a big problem.

[PoolMan]

Sean, I hate to tell you this but it looks like you a rather major problem in your pool, but a rather common one too. The concrete deck around your pool is moving, I susspect from temperature and possibly frost heaving. If the pool was built right, there would be a mechanical seperation between the top of the pool wall called the bond beam and the concrete deck that overlaps the bond beam and forms a cantalever edge on the inside top of the pool. When there is no seperation and the concrete deck is tied to the bond beam, then the pool tile popps off. Once the tile has popped, water can get down between the plaster finish and the gunite shell causing the plaster to delaminate from the shell giving you that hollow sound you described.

Now for the repair: I would strip all of the tile from the pool waterline and chip away all the loose plaster everywhere that it sounds hollow. clean up the underside edge of the cantalever deck with a diamond blade grinder and make sure that the pool wall is flat. If you set tile directly to the pool wall again it will continue to pop off every few years, so the answer is to provide a new surface for the tile that won't pop. I have not tried this but I think that it would work ok to set a six inch piece of cement board just under the lip of the deck. You can use plastic anchors and stainless steel screws to mechanicaly fasten the concrete board to the wall, I wouls also use thinset. Now using thinset, attatch your new tile to the cement board and then grout with white sanded grout. At this point you will have all new tile at the waterline that is bonded to the cement board but not the cantalever deck edge. The wall sections below the tile can now be replastered with standard white pool plaster(marble dust and white portland cement). You should use a bond coat os the bare gunit pool wall to be sure that the plaster stays put. I have used a product called "scratch coat 2000" that was purchased at White Cap.

The job can be done by a professional pool plastering company who has experiance with stuff every day of the week, but will cost a couple of thousand dollars. Hope this helps, any one else chime in too. Good luck, RobT.

[Davy]

I agree with part of whats been said. I do agree that the deck is moving and that is putting pressure on the waterline tile.

I would do the repair alittle different. I've never seen or heard of anyone using cement board anywhere around a pool. The cement behind the tile is called fat mud (wall mud), we talk about it alot around here so a search will give you plenty to read about it. I would take off any hollow tiles but leave the rest. You can patch the fat mud back but I would apply a thin coat of good modified thinset first as a bonder.

I wouldn't tackle patching the plaster, I'd call an expert for that.

[poolmaninct]

interesting advice....

1. bond beam is shot
2. broken beams suck bigtime.
3. execavate around damaged beem, cut beam out, for to shoot & replace beam. (ofeten entails cutting top foot of pool off. lots of staging & muscle work. a. major beam reapair mistake is to shoot on to vertical steel, expecting a mechanical bond. vertical lathe is only way to g (like these shower guys do)
4. what's a bond beam? the "ring" on your red keg cup is the beam, crack that and cup folds. hence "bond beam"

ray

[poolmaninct]

cement board bolted to perimeter?????? pick a source of failure...

[ceramictec]

More insight on what Ray is saying:

Bond Beam Repair

On In-ground gunite pools, the coping is the capstone for the beam, and is used to finish the pools edge and bring it up flush with the pool deck. Pre-cast concrete coping with a bull-nose front edge has been the standard for many years. Modern designs are making use of bull-nose brick coping in many colors and textures. Flagstone is also a popular choice.

Beneath the pool coping, and behind the tile is what is referred to by pool builders as the bond beam, or just the beam. The pool bond beam is subject to many forces acting on it, and for this reason it is usually poured to be thicker and stronger than the lower section of the pool wall.

Beam damage could be defined simply as a crack that runs through the top of the pool wall. It may not be visible, until at an advanced stage, where cracking and crumbling of the tile is noticed.

Long, horizontal cracks in the pool tile are many times the end result of years of expansion and contraction of the concrete in a pool. If the expansion joint between the pool beam and the pool deck is not true, that is, does not extend through to the earth, then the pool and deck push against each other. Guess who wins? Usually the deck, with it's lateral size, if pushing up against the beam, or built right on top of the beam (poor practice) will result in the top 6" - 12" of the pool wall cracking and separating.

The repair to a broken bond beam is pretty involved. Remove all the coping, all the tile and chip down to solid beam. Remove all debris. Form and pour hydraulic cement, using steel rebar plugs wired together to create the new beam. Strip the forms, and set new tile and coping and caulking between a true expansion joint.

This can be a major repair, if the entire pool has to be done. Partial repairs can be done, if a matching tile and coping can be found (sometimes this is difficult).

[poolmaninct]

ty, imagine my thumbs if I posted that with the treo......

call a pool contractor.... its not a tile problem.....

ray

[Sean_VA]

Thanks for all the responses and it seems like my pool is in bad shape. I agree that the deck is moving and there is no mechanical separation between it and the side of the pool and this is breaking the tiles. It also looks like water got behind the tile due to the failure of the caulking above the tile.

I am kinda strapped at the moment so I will try to repair this myself - just patch it to get me through the season I hope. I did ask the pool guy who closed the pool last year and he said I needed a new pool and all I could salvage was the hole in the ground and the pump/filter.

Anyway I agree with Davy (to use thinset) and will try to chip off all the cement until I get to a semi hard surface. I will remove all the 'hollow' plaster and tile and also cement. I will then put on a coat of thinset then fill in the large holes with cement (fat mud).

As far as the plaster goes I was thinking I could use thinset instead. A first coat with a v notch then once again with a straight edge. I am going to paint the pool with a rubberized paint - sani tread anyway so I might be o.k.

- What thinset would be best

- What caulk should I use above the tile?

- Will the thinset in place of Plaster work?

thanks all!

[Scooter]

Or turn into a skate boarding park.

[ceramictec]

you wouldn't wanna put a wheel into that hole, you'll break a wheel truck or board easy.

[Davy]

Hi Sean, I can't say about the thinset in place of the plaster. Thinset doesn't smooth out very easy, even with a straight edge. You could easily have a big mess since thinset likes to run down hill unless you put it on fairly thin. Also, it'll be kinda gritty when it dries, not slick like plaster and I'm not sure how good the rubber paint will bond.

[poolmaninct]

2 marble dust to 1 white cement .... aka plaster

ray