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Old 08-21-2007, 07:45 AM   #1
bcassida
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Tiling an outdoor kitchen in freezing climate

Just recently joined the forum, but I've been a reader for a long time. I have a question.

I'm in the middle of constructing a free standing outdoor kitchen in Indiana where, obviously, the weather an get very cold in the winter. We've decided on covering the kitchen (countertops, cabinets, and backsplash) in tile and we have selected some porcelain tiles due to the freezing aspects of our weather. The frame of the kitchen is comprised of treated lumber and I've covered all the exposed areas with Durock.

My question is, do I need to provide some form of uncoupling membrane or can I go right over the Durock? Also, because I have vertical and horizontal surfaces, how do I make that transition?

I've read other threads where techniques are discussed to eliminate air pockets under the tile where water can form (and thus cause the tile to pop), but with the absorptive properties of concrete based products, how do you prevent water from absorbing into the grout and then into the thin set?

Thanks in advance!

bkc
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Old 08-21-2007, 12:55 PM   #2
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I'm also interested in the answer to this one.

Tom
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Old 08-21-2007, 03:18 PM   #3
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BKC
Make sure that your CBU is fastened well. To make it bullet proof and stand up to any weather.
Paint a couple coats of Laticrete 9235 on it. If you think that the frame may move some (if new lumber it will) I would use the Laticret mesh in all of the seams.
For mortar I would use Mapie Keralastic/mixed with Kerabond. Bullet proof freeze/thaw mortar.
Good Luck
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Old 08-21-2007, 06:58 PM   #4
bcassida
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Thanks Jerry. Will do on the backer board - an ounce of prevention and all that stuff.

I'll have to check on the laticrete and see if anyone around here carries it. The local home center does carry some of the Schluter products and I assume they provide the same basic functionality.

It sounds like you are very familiar with the mortar you recommend and I'll trust your judgement.

However, I'm still curious about the grout and all the other cement based products. By their very nature, they absorb water. Other threads within this forum discuss preventing water from getting underneath the tiles by making sure no pockets reside beneath the tiles, etc. I also understand the isolation membrane. But if water is allowed to soak into the grout (and thus into the mortar) why isn't there a thawing/freezing phenomenon with the tile? Obviously, there is an explanation as folks do this all the time. Do I need to concern myself with sealing of the grout for more than just dirt and grime, but also for water intrusion?

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Old 08-21-2007, 07:20 PM   #5
Davy
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The porcelain tiles will absorb very little moisture. Of course you could use epoxy grout and not have to worry about water or stains.
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Old 08-21-2007, 07:22 PM   #6
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Jerry gave you the advise based on what you wanted to do, but he didn't guarantee something wouldn't happen.We answer questions on specific problems, but sometimes we don't point out all the pitfalls, like i'm about to do.Yes, you will have water absorption, yes it may freeze expand and ruin your tile job,even if it's sealed.I myself will not tile any outside kitchen unless it's solid concrete, i've seen too many failures, but people will continue to build them,and ask questions here, and we'll tell them to secure the cbu, waterproof, and seal, and be sure to have pitch, and protect it,and such, but we can't just keep telling people not to build wooden bbq's cause they just keep buildin em.There are millions of problems with cold wet weather and exterior tile jobs, but people ask us what to do and we do our best.
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Old 08-21-2007, 07:23 PM   #7
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Davy's post is a perfect example,he answered, and tried to help with that problem, but he too knows the .....rest...of...the..story.
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Old 08-22-2007, 06:31 AM   #8
statjunk
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Hey Pros,

Should he have used treated lumber to frame the kitchen? Would regular lumber have been better?

Thanks

Tom
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Old 08-22-2007, 06:48 AM   #9
chicagohandidude
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good question and in this application i might have considered a combination of the two. reason being treated lumber is most times soaking wet with the preservative. ever buy new 4x4 posts? those hummers are are about 5x as heavy as the ones that are a year old... which is fine and dandy if you are setting it into the ground as a fence post. but it will start to dry rather quickly... and of course with that drying comes a lot of twisting and movement... bad bad bad - especially for tile. dave's comment of only tiling on concrete tops is worth consideration...

i think at the very least i'd use spectralock -

jb
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Old 08-22-2007, 09:48 AM   #10
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Isn't there a problem with epoxy grout exposed to sunlight? It will fade?
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Old 08-23-2007, 06:01 AM   #11
chicagohandidude
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excellent question - and i don't know the answer...


but i think id take fade over porosity - ? maybe??


jb
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