Ceramic Tile Advice Forums - John Bridge Ceramic Tile

Welcome to John Bridge / Tile Your World, the friendliest DIY Forum on the Internet


Advertiser Directory
JohnBridge.com Home
Buy John Bridge's Books   Buy a TYW Shirt

Go Back   Ceramic Tile Advice Forums - John Bridge Ceramic Tile > Tile & Stone Forums > Tile Forum/Advice Board

Sponsors


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 02-13-2007, 11:08 AM   #1
astrojeff
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 131
Roof nails on Hardibacker

I've only screwed down Durock before, but nailing down Hardi with roof nails sounds easier. I bought a big tub of 1 1/4" galvanized roofing nails for 1/4" hardi on 3/4" ply subfloor. I noticed the "barbs" or ring shanks are only on the upper 1/4 of the nail near the head. That makes sense for roofs with thin tiles, but it won't be far down enough to pass through 3/8" of Hardi/thinset and bite into the subfloor. Is this normal for roof nails, and is that OK for Hardi, or is there some kind of roof nails not sold at Lowe's that has the entire shaft with shanks/barbs? I have underlayment ringshank nails that are entirely barbed, but not galvanized.
astrojeff is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Old 02-13-2007, 01:08 PM   #2
John Bridge
Mudmeister
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Houston, Texas
Posts: 64,801
Send a message via AIM to John Bridge
Hi Jeff,

Sounds like you got shiny elecro-galvanized nails, which are not suitable for backer board. They have no holding power. The best are the old fashioned hot dipped galvies.
John Bridge is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-14-2007, 11:44 AM   #3
astrojeff
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 131
I'll return my shiniy ones and get the hot dipped kind. I take it that it's the roughness that holds them in place?

Thanks!!
astrojeff is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-20-2007, 08:32 AM   #4
astrojeff
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 131
I think I'm ready to give up on the roofing nail idea. I've been to 4 hardware stores--Lowes, HD, and two building supply stores. I've seen so many kinds of roofing nails that I'm thoroughly confused. There are the electro galvanized ones with little notches (barbs) near the top of the wide head. There are electrogalvanized ones with full ring shanks. Then, there are the hot dipped galvanized, which so far seem fully ring shanked, but they always have a washer below the head (for aluminum roofs?). I failed to find "normal" hot-dipped galvanized nails. I could use the washer ones and take off the washers manually--it would save me a bundle of money, but I imagine my fingers going raw from the work. If my memory serves me correctly, it seems like the fully ring-shanked electrogalvanized nails did not have washers (or was I just not looking carefully enough?)--Wouldn't these be good enough?

The hardware store people all think I'm crazy--they've never heard of using roofing nails on backerboard--"why don't you just use screws--the galvanized ring-shanked roofing nails are so expensive at $1.50/lb?"
"Because the darn hardibacker screws are more like $10/lb," I say. They just chuckle and tell me to use drywall screws, which are way cheaper-- dont worry!!--I won't do that!

So I went to HD and spent $60 or so on the Hardibacker rock on screws for this project. But to save money and time, I'd like to know for my next project EXACTLY what type of roofing nails we are talking about. Could someone post a picture, or give an exact model number or description or link to buy online? Is it the full ring shanks that's most important? Is it the hot dipped that's most important? Are the hot dipped always fully ring shanked, and do they always have the washer on the top? Are there hot dipped ones that aren't ring-shanked, but have holding power just 'cause they are rough? Please help!
astrojeff is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-20-2007, 09:13 AM   #5
todd1313
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Yardley, PA
Posts: 109
Do you have a Fastenal Co. near you? HD in PA sells stainless steel ring shanked nails too.
todd1313 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-20-2007, 11:10 AM   #6
astrojeff
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 131
Looks like I do have a Fastenal in town. I had never heard of them before. I talked with the guy on the phone and told him what I was looking for--"1 1/4" hot-dipped galvanized roofing nails." He asked me whether or not they were ring shanked and I said I thought so but the only ones I found had the washers on them--he agreed and added that the ring shank nails bend really easily so they would be problematic on concrete backerboard. He said if I could get a model number/name for the specific kind of nail he would see if they have them or could order them for me.
astrojeff is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-20-2007, 12:58 PM   #7
dl
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Oregon Coast
Posts: 699
Ordinary hot dipped galvenized roofing nails, available here in big nail bins at building supply stores or even at the local department store. I'm amazed that the BB stores don't have them.

- DL
Attached Images
 
__________________
- Don
Old enough to know better, yet I do it anyway.
www.lashier.com
dl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-20-2007, 10:16 PM   #8
SteveVB
Remodeler -- D.C. Area
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Near DC
Posts: 648
http://www.mazenails.com/catalog/cat...GE20&group=RFG

Lowes sometimes carries them, you can get them online too.
__________________
Have Fun

Steve
SteveVB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-21-2007, 06:04 AM   #9
Shaughnn
Tile Contractor & Trowel Monkey
 
Shaughnn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Kent, Washin'ton
Posts: 11,567
Jeff,
I use 1 1/2" hot-dipped roofing nails which are made by Grip-rite and sold through Home Despot in both 50# tubs and 5# boxes.
Best of luck,
Shaughnn
__________________
Capua Custom Tile & Stone; Seattle, Washington
Member- National Tile Contractors Association
Card-carrying Schluter Systems installer
Certified WEDI Board installer
NuHeat radiant heating system "Qualified Installer"

"Working is more fun with cookies" ~ Tim Gunn
Shaughnn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-21-2007, 06:07 AM   #10
Rd Tile
Tile Man
 
Rd Tile's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Long Island N.Y.
Posts: 6,891
And, what's wrong with the Hardie screws?, that's all I use with it, work great and don't have to worry about holding, screws are better.
Rd Tile is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-21-2007, 06:11 AM   #11
Chris H
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 490
uhh...i've used drywall screws in the past making sure the heads were flush or slightly below the surface of the CBU. not a good idea?
Chris H is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-21-2007, 06:25 AM   #12
Rd Tile
Tile Man
 
Rd Tile's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Long Island N.Y.
Posts: 6,891
Nope, not a good idea.
Rd Tile is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-21-2007, 06:25 AM   #13
bcs001
Bruce
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Cumming Ga.
Posts: 36
I'm having the same problem as Jeff. here in the Atlanta are no one carried hot dipped roofing nails. I've been to HDepot, Lowes and the large building supply co's. Even called some of the roofing supply companies with no luck.

I started installing my hardibacker a couple of weeks ago with electro galvanized nails. Have the kitchen and one bathroom done. After reading some of the recommendations NOT to use them I am trying to figure out how I should proceed.

Is the use of electro galvanized really going to be an issue in the long term or it is just "better" to use the hot dipped nails?

I am using an unmodified thinset under the hardibacker so as I understand it there will not be much bond strength between the plywood and the backer. Is this correct?

Bruce.
bcs001 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-21-2007, 07:27 AM   #14
astrojeff
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 131
Thanks for the picture-that helps a lot! That's what I've been looking for and haven't seen yet in the stores. Steve's hyperlink shows plain, ring, and spiral shank in the double-hot-dipped galvies. If I can get the ring shank without the washer, are they even better than plain shank shown in the picture? I'd think so intuitively, but like the guy at fastenal said "they bend easy and will be hard to nail through concrete backer". True?

RD: The only thing "wrong" with hardi screws is time and money. I was actually thinking (please tell me if this is a bad idea--I heard someone else on this forum suggest it and I thought it was a good idea) that I'd screw down on a larger grid on the hardi, and then fill in with nails--mix the two for the holding strength of the screws and the economy and ease of nails. Maybe the hardi screws are cheaper elsewhere, but here they are about $8 for a very small, handfull-sized box. I'm just being cheap, but if I'm being cheap, I want to do it right. If nails really are bad, I won't use them--but if they're just or even almost as good as screws as some people claim, I'll try them out.

Drywall screws are thinner and more brittle than other screws so they can break off under tension or shear--they may rust or degrade in alkaline concrete?--I don't know how much of a danger this is on tile backer, but I wouldn't want to risk it.
astrojeff is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-21-2007, 08:13 AM   #15
SteveVB
Remodeler -- D.C. Area
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Near DC
Posts: 648
..........If I can get the ring shank without the washer, are they even better than plain shank shown in the picture? I'd think so intuitively, but like the guy at fastenal said "they bend easy and will be hard to nail through concrete backer". True? .......

Ring shanks have more holding power- code will require them on high wind area roofs soon I believe.

I dont know why they would bend more easily unless the wire gauge isnt the same, but the Maze nails at least are the same gauge so they should be the same as far as bending. Is bending a big concern ? Its a short length, large shank nail, not something 3" long, I wouldnt think bending will be a problem if driven correctly.
FWIW Maze produces some great products-all nails are not the same.
__________________
Have Fun

Steve
SteveVB is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Buy John's New Book!   Tile Your World Online Store   Contractors Direct Tile Tool Store   Stonetooling.com   Tile-Assn.com


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 10:00 PM.


Sponsors

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright 2014 John Bridge & Associates, LLC