Craig/Anna Wood tile install project. - Ceramic Tile Advice Forums

CoderMan1 · 07-14-2006, 06:24 PM

Ok Ive never attempted to install tile myself, but I have helped a little bit before. I will have a friend or 2 with me that know a little bit about tiling so Im looking for some advice here.

Im having a new house built in Tenessee with wood subflooring, we are going to install 9x26 tiles over the subfloor and use Ditra as the layer between as Im told its not a good idea to install tile on wood

I have about 1400 sqft to install, mostly square edges so shouldnt be too many difficult cuts, but the way the tile needs to be layed is in a staggered pattern like this:

__ __ __ __ __
_ __ __ __ __ _
__ __ __ __ __
_ __ __ __ __ _

I hope that is comprehensive enough....anyway, the tile costs about 7.15$ a sqft and the tile installer wants 10$ sqft to install it. Thats why I have chosen to do it myself, I simply cant afford 20,000$ for a floor for my downstairs alone.

Do you guys have any suggestions on installing this for a beginner? Like books or instructional videos? Also, do my plans for installation sound ok? i.e. using Ditra on subfloor.

Thanks
Craig

CoderMan1 · 07-14-2006, 06:29 PM

The tile can be seen here:

Madison Mike · 07-14-2006, 08:52 PM

Dude - is that wood plank tile?? Why not just install wood?? Anyway, if you want a great book for learning about setting tile, I recommend John Bridge's book, available in the TYW store (follow the link in the dark blue bar above). Having said that, you're taking on a mighty big job for your first stab at it. $7something a foot for tile is a lot. First things first, check your structure by clicking on the Deflecto link above. If you have TJI's you'll need to post the maker, height, spacing, and unsupported span in this thread and wait for one of the fine engineers here to give you the thimbs up on yer structure. After you get the OK on that we can help you through the rest of the process.

Mike
Mdison, WI

jadnashua · 07-15-2006, 12:17 AM

Hopefully, the new floor is very flat, as that large a tile will be a bear to level out if it isn't. Also, suggest using granite and marble (mediumset) mortar ratherthan a regular thinset. Last, backbutter each tile.

CoderMan1 · 07-15-2006, 01:59 AM

I think the structure is fine for tile, but I will try to get that information from the builder. They have an option on the house for ceramic tile floors, so Id imagine the subfloor is built to handle that.

CoderMan1 · 07-15-2006, 01:08 PM

From builder:

Joist Material Engineered I Beam
Joist Height 12"-14" per plan and room
Joist Width 2 1/4"
Joist Spacing Max 19.2" O.C.
Joist Length Varies per plan

Our homes are good to go for tile, should be no problems, if you would like though I can follow up with Rick on Monday.

CoderMan1 · 07-19-2006, 05:56 PM

Ive got some tile thats 9x26 and is recommended to do a mud-set install with NO grout line (like marble install). My plans were to do concrete backerboard over the plywood with thinset between each layer.

These manufacturer specs have totally thrown off my install procedures, now Im looking at something I cannot do. Basically I have to hire someone to do it for me for another 15000$

How strict are these specs typically and does it mean you must do things that way or there will be major problems?

Rd Tile · 07-19-2006, 08:56 PM

Maybe I have to get out more often, but I've never heard this before, maybe with that size tile they are saying you need 100% coverage, I would prep the floor as I would for any ceramic, then backbutter that size tile before setting them, insuring 100% coverage.

NVC · 07-19-2006, 08:56 PM

Hi Coder,

If you plan on grouting it, it should have a space (i.e. grout joint) for the grout to bond to, even if it's a 32'nd, unless it has a large micro bevel that would give the grout enough surface area to get a foot hold.

As far as the mud set . . . Check the variance between the tiles in thickness, if they're fairly close and your floor is fairly flat using a large marble trowel (U-toothed) with a thinset made for large tile or stone you'll be ok.

Also, before you attempt such a tight joint, randomly check some of the tiles for square. If they wander you'll be squaring them up on a saw and re-chamfering them.

hope this helps,
Mark

Trask · 07-20-2006, 01:28 AM

Coder,

who's the manf. recomending no grout? What type of tile is it,where'd you buy it ?

Madison Mike · 07-20-2006, 09:31 AM

Yo Code, are you the dude with the wood plank tlie?? It's easier for us to follow up if you keep all your posts about the same project on the samre thread, FYI. About your current prob: I'm not sure you need a mud bed for that install, but I want to know who recommended the mud bed and no grout. Was it a tile installer, the manufacturer, a sales guy at the tile shop where you got the tile???? No grout sounds kinda hinky to me. Also, I'd contact the manufacturer of the tile for clarification on the mud bed thing.
I haven't installed much tile like that, but I'd suspect that since it's long and skinny you'd have to make sure the floor is solid.

From your other thread I got that you want to use Ditra and that's a great idea. But you can't assume that just because "the builder knows" that you might want tile in there that they're going to build it to our specs for tile. If you were going to put in natural stone your floor would have to be twice as stiff as for ceramic. Do you think they'd have thrown in that extra layer of underylayment without having been told by someone? Try reposting the specs on your floor structure in this thread, and give us an idea how long the spans are on those TGI's. Hopefully we can get an engineer in here to tell you for sure how your floor stacks up. I can tell you though, if I was putting that tile in I'd throw another layer of 1/2" ply down before installing the Ditra, but let's let the big dogs chime in a bit.

Mike
Madison, WI

CoderMan1 · 07-20-2006, 10:41 AM

Mike,

Thanks for the reply. Here are the specs I got from the builder:

Joist Material Engineered I Beam
Joist Height 12"-14" per plan and room
Joist Width 2 1/4"
Joist Spacing Max 19.2" O.C.
Joist Length Varies per plan

In regards to who gave me this install information: It was the sales manager for the local office.

So given the manufacturer specs, what kind of install do you guys think I will be ok with? Can I do a 1/8" grout line with backerboard only? Can I do Ditra right on top of the plywood subfloor? Or do I need another layer of plywood?

Thanks again,
Craig

Madison Mike · 07-20-2006, 01:05 PM

Craig - The engineers are going to need more information on those engineered joists, like manufacturer, and the numbers printed across the side of the joist. I think it's some kind of secret code so we "normal" people can't figger out what they're talking about

Also, they're going to need lengths for the spans of the joists. They might be able to figure the longest span that would be OK, but it sounds like more math to me.

The manager of the local sales office that told you to go woth the mud bed install: is the the manager of the tile shop where you went or is he the head rep. for the manufacturer of the tile that you want? Can you contact the manufacturer directly via phone or website to get install recommendations??

Still need more info before we give you a yea or nay on the install. Can you tell us the maufacturer and style of the tile??

Mike
Madison, WI

Mike2 · 07-20-2006, 01:15 PM

Good catch Mike.

I'm going to merge these two threads together Craig because all the background info. in the first one definitely applies and need to be preserved.

CoderMan1 · 07-20-2006, 06:00 PM

Mike,

Can you give me a list of all the question I should ask my builder? Id hate to have to keep running back with new questions for them and get them all at once.