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Old 06-14-2006, 08:08 AM   #1
Pooltiler
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Waterproof thinset and grout.

I am trying to find out what is the best thinset and grout to use for browncoat, thinset, and grout to install pool tile at the waterline in Ohio, a freeze thaw area. I know a local installer who uses a silicone adhesive used to set tile on fiberglass pools and a silicone grout. I don't believe this adhesive can bond very well to the browncoat. Any ideas?
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Old 06-14-2006, 08:19 AM   #2
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By brown coat I assume you mean the final coat of a full mortar bed. That being the case I would use a product like Customs Versa Bond, slightly modified but not so much so that you have re-imulsification problems. I don't like silicone and conventional cement grout together, especially when bonded to a mortar bed. Silicone is a very dynamic or elastimeric product and your using it to stick a material (tile/grout) that needs to be far more static. It will sick but it's very problematic in my opinion. And i can't think of a more hostile environ. than an exterior Pool.
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Old 06-16-2006, 03:31 PM   #3
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Clarification

I am installing tile at the waterline on a gunite (concrete) pool in Ohio, a freeze-thaw region. The mortar bed, or initial layer on mortar, refered to as browncoat... what is typically used? fortified thinset? Once I have the mortar bed done, is there a waterproof thinset to set the tile? Can I set the tile in waterproof membrane? And then the grout... is adding latex or polymer fortifier good enough? or is there a waterproof grout? I am assuming here that fortifying any mortar or grout does not waterproof it.
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Old 06-16-2006, 07:01 PM   #4
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On the roman tubs I've floated..especially outside, I got a manufacture involved. Talk to someone like customs and see what their opinion is on chemical/bonding/freeze thaw compatability.

I imagine you could bond your mortarbed to the gunnite,(I might be inclined to use a bonded sheet membrane like noble or Kerdi over that)then set tile.

Your right in the sense that not all mortars, (thinsets) are equal or waterproof. grout is the same story. I'm also assumiong this is an already watertight tank, and your not responsible for the primary waterproofing.
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Old 06-16-2006, 09:11 PM   #5
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Hi Pooltiler,

I'll first say that I'm not a pooltiler . . . wait a minute, what with the name, but then the question

Anyway, I would think epoxy and epoxy grout, and like Trask I would contact a manufacturer (I know Laticrete makes stuff for this purpose) because it's not something I know about.

Just a guess here, Laticrete 9235 waterproofing over mud/brown, maybe platinum thinset, and spectra-lock grout, but check the laticrete site. I'm sure there are cheaper alternatives, and hopefully somebody else might have info.

hope this helps, a bit

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Old 06-17-2006, 06:09 PM   #6
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I'm not sure about new epoxies but I thought they were a bad thing in exterior situations.. not sure
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Old 06-17-2006, 06:35 PM   #7
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Sounds like Cisco should read this one.
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Old 06-17-2006, 07:19 PM   #8
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Hi Pooltiler,

If you go to www.laticrete.com

click on 'resources' then
click 'architectual guidebook'

(do some free registration b.s.)

search the guidebook for swimming pools which should take you to their 'execution statement sheet" (should be ESP601)

It'll have all the details, and a swell picture.

Briefly it's

226 thickbed mortar w/ 3701 admix
9235 for waterproofing
254 platinum thin$et
SpectraLock Pro or (Tri-poly (1500 or1600 series) mixed with 1776 grout admix plus).

Most manufacturers will have info like this available, so you can usually use your flavor of choice, but I would contact a rep and get their 'approved' system for the installation.

Like Jay said, Cisco did a gorgeous pool mosaic, and perhaps he'll let you know what he used.

hope this helps,
Mark
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