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Old 06-28-2005, 05:00 PM   #1
lettyz
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Smile hot mop shower pan

Help! We have done quite a bit of tiling, (walls, counters, floors), but never a walk in shower from scratch. We took out a 30 yr. old fiberglass, one-piece-walk in shower (3x6') surround. The wood on the walls are in great shape; there is a cement slab also in great shape, with drain. Now what? All the info we've seen pertains to second floor showers, not one story walk-in shower with slab floor.

We framed for the curb, but now the questions: Do we put 1/4" ply on walls, then moisture barrior? Is moister barrior on walls AND slab floor, THEN have it hot mopped, then mud pan for slop, moisture barrior (up 1--12" from floor), then 1/2" backer board? If someone could give step by step, (1,2,3...) of what the shower procedure steps should be, please. (We are not doing the hot mop). We've been told that the hot mop is superior to the 'membrane', yes?
Thank you.
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Old 06-28-2005, 05:06 PM   #2
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Hi there lettyz -- is that your first name?

Go here: Liberry

Find the thread on shower construction. You won't likely find many folks here who will tell you that a hot mop shower pan is better than a membrane -- are you in California?

Hang tight, some pros will weigh in, but check that link out -- lots o' good stuff.
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Old 06-28-2005, 06:43 PM   #3
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Hi Letty, welcome.

Here are a few things to look up in the liberry. You have a drain but do you have a three piece clamping drain? Be sure and install a preslope under the pan liner. Use shower pan corners. You might need to notch the studs for the liner. You don't want plywood on the walls, install a moisture barrier to the studs and CBU over that. A hot mop pan is not superior.
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Old 06-28-2005, 08:24 PM   #4
td
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Lett...Im a DIY in Calif. Seems Ca people are the only ones that hot mop.

This is what im doing now...

2x4 (3) for curb

blocking between studs for hot mop, up 10 inchs. Notch them also.

hot mop with preslope (the hot mopper will make the preslope)

Make sure you use a cast iron drain.

Vapor barrier over studs 4 or 6 mil

1/2 Backer board (no nails below curb)

Deck mud the floor with 1/4 inch slope per foot

Fat mud the curb using metal lath over 2x4's

Tile away...debate on whether to tile the floor or walls first..I think it may be easier to tile the floor first..just make sure you cover it up good when you tile the walls...I will use old carpet over the floor with cardboard.

Just my thots...im not a pro.
Troy
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Old 06-29-2005, 09:01 AM   #5
lettyz
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hot mop vs membrane

Quote:
Originally Posted by td
Lett...Im a DIY in Calif. Seems Ca people are the only ones that hot mop.

This is what im doing now...

2x4 (3) for curb

blocking between studs for hot mop, up 10 inchs. Notch them also.

hot mop with preslope (the hot mopper will make the preslope)

Make sure you use a cast iron drain.

Vapor barrier over studs 4 or 6 mil

1/2 Backer board (no nails below curb)

Deck mud the floor with 1/4 inch slope per foot

Fat mud the curb using metal lath over 2x4's

Tile away...debate on whether to tile the floor or walls first..I think it may be easier to tile the floor first..just make sure you cover it up good when you tile the walls...I will use old carpet over the floor with cardboard.

Just my thots...im not a pro.
Troy
Troy thank you so much. You are right, I am in CA and all I hear is hot mop, but info coming back is for a membrane.
So, it is:
1. block 10 inches
2. Hot mop
3. vapor barrior
4. backer
5. then deck mud pan...isnt' lath used on the pan floor? or just the curb?
One thing. The drain coming up from the slab is PVC and issurrounded by dirt, so we need to cement around the pipe before putting on the drain. Can we put cast iron drain on a PVC pipe? We keep getting confusing info. Thank you so much for your input. Letty
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Old 06-29-2005, 09:35 AM   #6
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Hi Letty,

Are you set on hot mop? The PVC or CPE membranes are more reliable and you can do the work yourself. Here's an alternative sequence for your floor (and make sure you dig around in the Liberry links above):

Build your curb from 2x4s (however many you need to get your finished height -- maybe 3 on the flat);

Build pre-slope (1/4" per foot) with deck mud, working it up around your drain pipe and 3 piece clamping PVC drain;

Lay PVC membrane on your pre-slope and secure to your blocking above the height of the finished curb; wrap it over the roughed-in curb and secure it to the outside only;

Use lath over the curb, then float your final floor, maintaining a continuous thickness from drain to wall (matching the pre-slope's 1/4" per foot);

That's a rough list -- look at the links below. General shower construction, pre-slope, pan-liner and a link to cast-iron drains, should you choose to go that way.

Hope that helps! Just wanted to make sure you had all your options...

Shower construction
Pre-slope
Pan Liner
Cast Iron Drain
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Old 06-29-2005, 08:17 PM   #7
Davy
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I'm with Marcus, sounds like a good plan. Hot mop has it's advantages, longevity is not one of them.
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Old 06-29-2005, 10:37 PM   #8
Brian Barbier
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Letty,
While everyone is giving you their input on hot mop, I thought I'd share mine with you. I remodel bathrooms (in CA) and have torn out quite a number of hot mopped showers (and a few tubs). EVERY hot mopped shower I have torn out had failed (leaked). Some didn't leak enough over a slab to do any damage, a few on wood subfloor rotted out entire bathroom floors, and adjacent rooms. One or two were only 8-10 yrs. old when I came along. From my experience of tearing out rotten bathrooms and tracking down the causes each time as I go, I have come to the conclusion that I will only install Schluter Kerdi showers from now on, although I'd always been fine with the PVC liners.

Brian
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Old 06-30-2005, 09:33 AM   #9
td
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Letty,

yes you can use a cast iron drain on ABS drain pipe...it is a 2 piece drain from Home Dep.

As you can see, lots of negative remarks towards hot mopping....but I believe, if done correctly, hot mopping is good....there are lots of homes in Ca that use hot mopping...some will have problems...some wont...just take your time and make sure you get a hot mopper that knows what they're doing.

Cost should not be an issue..a 3x4 floor cost me about $175...just make sure they use the pre slope material (its somekind of roofing material) below the hot mop.

You also dont need lath for the floor...just the curb, and nails only on the outside of the curb.

btw..i struggled with using a membrane or hot mop..everyone in here uses membranes, but 90% (just a guess) use hot mop in CA...dont know why.

My next shower may be a Wedi shower...check out this info under "search"\

Good luck
Troy
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Old 06-30-2005, 10:07 AM   #10
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I don't know anything about hot mop, but from reading this forum it seems like hit or miss that you will get a good installer resulting in a leak proof pan. As a DIYer I can recommend the Kerdi shower system http://tile-experts.com/products.asp?id=54. I used this system to replace a fiberglass pan/cultured marble shower and feel that it is the best way for a homeowner to build a totally waterproof shower. Some of the pluses of the system are that you can use ordinary drywall for the walls, you only need to build one slope, and no worries about clogging weepholes. It's practically foolproof. Here's a picture of my finished shower:
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Old 06-30-2005, 10:19 AM   #11
what?
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Hot Mop

Hey all, I have read other threads dealing with hot mop, and explored the liberry a little bit, but have no real detail as to what hot mop is/does. Can someone give me an explanation of this technique? Thanks

joe
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Old 06-30-2005, 10:34 AM   #12
Davy
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Nice looking shower, Terri.

I'm not bad mouthing hot mop, I lived in California for years and tiled over many hot mop pans. Most guys won't install a preslope under them, this will shorten the life of the pan. I have seen them last 20 years. A PVC pan or a shower using Kerdi will last much longer.

Joe, the "pan man" will come in with felt paper and hot tar and apply layer after layer of tar and paper. They carry the tar in a large pot that is on a trailor. It's the same hot tar they use for flat roofs.
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Old 06-30-2005, 11:26 AM   #13
what?
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Well, no wonder they don't hold up, and d#mn thats gotta stink to install...

I just began a career in construction management at MSU (michigan state) and have seen many failing flat roofs. It seems almost no contractors have the necessary time/effort to do a flat roof very well. And even when it is done well, its only tar, not some miracle ointment... Thanks for the clarification...


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Old 07-01-2005, 09:11 AM   #14
lettyz
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Thumbs up

Thanks to all to of you. You are terrific for taking the time with all the things you guys must be doing. I believe I will go with the membrane. Again, thank you! Letty
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