Ceramic Tile Advice Forums - John Bridge Ceramic Tile

Welcome to John Bridge / Tile Your World, the friendliest DIY Forum on the Internet


Advertiser Directory
JohnBridge.com Home
Buy John Bridge's Books   Buy a TYW Shirt

Go Back   Ceramic Tile Advice Forums - John Bridge Ceramic Tile > Tile & Stone Forums > Tile Forum/Advice Board

Sponsors


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 05-22-2005, 03:49 PM   #1
jthoni
Registered User
 
jthoni's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 36
how to deal with sloped tile flange in tub

The previous owners did a "home job" tiling the bath/shower. They used 1x1" tiles, but left a 1/2" gap at the tub line that they filled with grout. The grout cracked, and I have water damage in the wall. I am planning on cutting out the lower section of wall (up to a row of 4x4" tile), putting in cement backer board, and then re tiling with 4x4" tiles.
The question I have is regarding the tile flange. On the ends of the tub, the tile wall comes down flush to the tub. On the back (long) wall, however, it looks like it is sitting above the sloped flange (this is a cast iron tub, by the way). I have been reading that the backerboard should overlap the flange. The problem is, I don't want to replace the whole wall (as it is tiled to about 11' with tile that goes all the way around the room). If I try to overlap the flange, I will either have to bring the wall out, creating a lip in the middle of the wall, or slope it or something.
Any advice on what to do? Any idea why they would not bring the wall out over this one edge? The only thing I can think of is that they used a thinner material for backerboard.

See attached pic.

Thanks,
~john
Attached Images
 
jthoni is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Old 05-22-2005, 03:53 PM   #2
jthoni
Registered User
 
jthoni's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 36
Note: this post started on terrylove.com (http://terrylove.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2302 )
jthoni is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-24-2005, 01:26 PM   #3
jthoni
Registered User
 
jthoni's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 36
Anybody?
jthoni is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-25-2005, 05:42 AM   #4
bbcamp
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 30,305
Sorry no one has gotten back to you. I don't have a solution that you're gonna like (and I'll bet you know what it is), so I'll just bump this back to the top and see if anyone else has anything.
bbcamp is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-25-2005, 06:16 AM   #5
Mike2
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: LaConner, Washington
Posts: 13,698
Hi John . Always nice to hear from a Terry Love poster. I had the opportunity to meet Terry in person a month or so ago. Real nice guy.

I'm in the same boat with Bob. Don't think your partial demo/re-do plan will work very well. Problems as I see them are two-fold, at least. Cutting relatively narrow strips of backerboard results in a very weak and flexible substrate for tile between the studs. Could be resolved I suppose with backing behind all seams where old and new meet. Then equally if not more important is the need for a contiguous vapor barrier behind the backerboard (all of it) which must overlap the tub flange. Don't know how you could do that without a complete re-do.

Like Bob's, this post of mine will bump you back to the top. Maybe someone else can come up with a satisfactory partial demo-redo plan.
Mike2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-25-2005, 11:40 PM   #6
Brian Barbier
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Davis, CA
Posts: 65
The intention of the tub's design is for the tile flange to be set against the studs. Then the CBU comes down on top of it, or overlaps it, which, for cast iron, would pretty much be on top of it, since it's 1/2" thick. Plus, with the wimpy (height-wise) flange they mold into cast iron tubs, it's good to fabricate more of a flange between the tub and studs (sheet metal band, caulked to tub, for example) for better overlap with the vapor barrier, and so that water can't just kinda fill up in spots and roll over the back.

All that being said, sticking a tub back down that doesnt fill the hole, then trying to waterproof the patch above it and keep that waterproofing consistent with the above portion of wall would be near impossible. I have been approached a number of times to take such a job, but in good conscience, I won't even consider it. After doing a $9000 rotten subfloor repair that stopped literally 1" from going under a huge fireplace, I believe getting yourself a good, waterproof shower enclosure is the best cure for restless sleep a homeowner can have.

Brian
Brian Barbier is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-26-2005, 06:42 AM   #7
Taylor
Registered User
 
Taylor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Northern NJ
Posts: 256
Brian, is there any issue of corrosion there? I would imagine you're best advised to use stainless steel for the sheet metal. I assume there is no galvanic reaction with the CI because of the latter's enamel coating.
Taylor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-26-2005, 11:01 PM   #8
jthoni
Registered User
 
jthoni's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 36
Thanks for all the feedback. After pondering this for many, many hours, I think I understand what happened. At some point during a bathroom remodel they put in a new tub (how many 1920's craftman houses have you seen with black tubs?). The new tub was not as wide as the old. If they had pushed it all the way over to the wall, the existing fixtures would have had to have been shifted, and there would be a large gap between the tub and the corner of the toilet alcove. What they did, I am guessing, is to pull the tub as far as they could away from the wall without a gap. I assume this because:
  • The already mentioned flange that is visible on the long edge only.
  • The fixtures are still a bit off center with the tub.
  • When look up into the wall cavity from the basement, I can see that they put a new 5" section of backerboard on the drain end, but from there on up it is old drywall.
I guess they have the drywall coming down and sitting on the top of the flange. I am going to find out this weekend when I pop a few tiles off.
I know I have a situation that I have to deal with as I have moisture blisters in the exterior paint just outside the bathroom.
My current plan is to remove all the tiles from a 4x4 strip (below the window in the photo below), replace whatever wall I need to, including a new vapor barrier, and then try to retile with different tile.
THE QUESTION I HAVE NOW: I know the best thing to do would be to push the tub back farther (assuming my assumptions are correct), but this would mean having to move the shower head and other fixtures by a few inches. How hard would this be? The supply/drain piping is accessible from the basement, but I would have to cut into the wall to get at the verticle pipes.

Attaching more photos. The first shows a wide shot. I will likely replace all the tiles from the window down. The second is another shot of the wall/tub connection (as well as the gap that still exists).
Attached Images
  
jthoni is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-27-2005, 06:45 PM   #9
Davy
Moderator -- Mud Man
 
Davy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Princeton,Tx.- Dallas area
Posts: 23,956
The only thing I can think of is to go ahead and build out the walls from the stripe down so the tile will reach over the tub lip. Put a mud cap at the stripe height all the way around and down the sides. Won't look too hot but maybe better than the 1/2 joint at the tub that you have now.

Another way would be to add a mudcap or quarter round piece at the tub to get over the lip and fill the gap.

I've seen it done both ways, can't say I like either one.
__________________
www.davystephenstile.com
Davy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-28-2005, 01:31 AM   #10
Brian Barbier
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Davis, CA
Posts: 65
John- All of the plumbing changes, rot repair and proper installation of a vapor barrier are very easy to do.....provided you actually tear it all out back to the rough studs. I'd even pull out the tub for a full inspection of the top of the subfloor material. I don't think someone could pay me 10 times my rate to get me to patchwork repair something like you've described, I'd never trust it, and I'd rather sleep at night.

Taylor--the 4-6" rolls of flashing for roofing is what I believe we used. I haven't done one in about 5 or more years though. Corrosion should only happen between dissimilar metals, and galvanized sheet metal should be steel based, thus not dissimilar to the cast iron. Heck, previous codes say that brass and iron are not dissimilar.... Some roof flashing is real thin and light and might even be aluminum??

Brian
Brian Barbier is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-29-2005, 11:49 PM   #11
jthoni
Registered User
 
jthoni's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 36
Ok. So I started pulling off tiles. The wet wood seems to be fairly localized, but I have committed to replacing the tile around the whole shower. It looks like they ran the wallboard from ceiling to floor, and then had the tub sitting 1/4" off of that.

I am curious about what the wallboard is. wet, it looks like drywall mud. Dry, it is a light tan. I would think it was just mud, but it definately has paper on both sides of it. Can anyone shed some light? (Yet another) picture attached.
Attached Images
 
jthoni is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-30-2005, 03:54 PM   #12
jthoni
Registered User
 
jthoni's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 36
Also, is it strange for them to have drywalled over the lathe instead of pulling off the lathe and drywalling to the studs?

thanks!
jthoni is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-30-2005, 07:06 PM   #13
jadnashua
Veteran DIYer- Schluterville Graduate
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Nashua, NH
Posts: 8,947
It's much easier to just put drywall over failing plaster...often the studs on a really old house are not all that even, so it makes it harder to rip it off, put up drywall without shimming everything to keep the wall somewhat straight. Plus, those old studs are a bear to screw and or nail into! SO, I think they took the easier way out, which is okay in most instances. My unprofessional opinion. Now, neither plaster nor drywall are great in a wet area.
__________________
Jim DeBruycker
Not a pro, multiple Schluter Workshops (Schluterville and 2013 and 2014 at Schluter Headquarters), Mapei Training 2014, and Longtime Forum Participant.
jadnashua is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-30-2005, 11:54 PM   #14
jthoni
Registered User
 
jthoni's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 36
There actually is no plaster. Just drywall on the lathe. That is what I thought was strange.

Also, a friend mentioned that the tan color of the drywall could be due to color leaching in from the mud. Sound right?
jthoni is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-31-2005, 04:52 PM   #15
John Bridge
Mudmeister
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Houston, Texas
Posts: 64,847
Send a message via AIM to John Bridge
Hi John,

The tan color of the gypsum indicates "greenboard" to me. The paper is/was greenish instead of whitish.
John Bridge is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Buy John's New Book!   Tile Your World Online Store   Contractors Direct Tile Tool Store   Stonetooling.com   Tile-Assn.com


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 10:27 AM.


Sponsors

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright 2014 John Bridge & Associates, LLC