Ceramic Tile Advice Forums - John Bridge Ceramic Tile

Welcome to John Bridge / Tile Your World, the friendliest DIY Forum on the Internet


Advertiser Directory
JohnBridge.com Home
Buy John Bridge's Books

Go Back   Ceramic Tile Advice Forums - John Bridge Ceramic Tile > Tile & Stone Forums > The Mud Box

Sponsors


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 02-15-2005, 11:34 PM   #1
Hamilton
Bucket abuser
 
Hamilton's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Wildomar Ca
Posts: 9,177
0% Tolerance Policy in the Schooling System

Was watching a TV show this morning and the topic was on 0 tolerance
in our schools. In one case a young girl was searched and found to have
birth control pills in her possesion. She was suspended from school, and
forced to take drug counseling. The birth control pills were given to her
by her doctor to control a hormonal problem she had, i forget the technical
name of the ailment, but the pills werent even for birth control,
but to balance her bodie's hormonal system. She was approached by police officers
on a surprise visit to the school and the canine drug unit stopped because
the dogs smelled something on her. Asked if they could search her she
agreed with no fight. Am i the only one who feels this is totally absurd?
For gods sake we dont even have a 0 tolerance policy for murderers in this
country... 1st degree 2nd degree etc. How can they make kids go through
these punishments without using one ounce of common sense. There were
many other cases portrayed on the show but im not the type to make excessively long posts.
Just thought id open a new can of worms, Being a parent myself
of 3 children, wife working for the shcool district, thought id get this started
to see how other folks feel about this
__________________
Jack Hamilton

Hamiltontileandstone.com

Temecula Tile and Natural stone contractor
Hamilton is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Old 02-16-2005, 12:44 AM   #2
stullis
Flooring Installer
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Home of Sinclair Lewis, Sauk Centre, MN
Posts: 3,218
Thank the Moral minority

The brain dead rule.
__________________
Scott
stullis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-16-2005, 01:06 AM   #3
jjwq8
Veteran Member -- Kuwait
 
jjwq8's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Q8; bigger than Rhode Island, hotter than Death Valley, drier than an Arbusto oil well.
Posts: 4,155
Blame the incumbent.
Cheney's rules apply.
Think of a problem.
If none exists manufacture one.
Now determine how the identified problem should be dealt wealth.
Now determine how to involve your friends and buddies.
Now sit back and watch your accounts grow.
__________________
Jeremy

I get angry to take a break from being pissed off
jjwq8 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-16-2005, 02:17 AM   #4
catamount
Registered User
 
catamount's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Duluth, Mn
Posts: 95
There is nothing wrong with a zero-tolerance policy, as long as common sense is used in its enforcement and it is used to fix real problems. Someone having prescription drugs on their person, which were legally prescribed to them by their doctor, is not a real problem. Someone having someone else's prescription drugs, which they are likely abusing, is. A child bringing a firearm to school is a real problem (although it wasn't when I was a kid and we never had school shootings because every kid I knew was taught proper handling of said firearm). A child bringing a toy gun, a facsimile of a gun, or pointing a finger and saying "bang" is not a real problem (although it is behavior that should be adressed, just not by suspension or expulsion). If a child is found to be in violation of a school policy, but is not doing anything illegal or causing harm to self or others, should they be removed from school just because it is written in the policy? Of course not.
I believe there SHOULD be zero tolerance for criminal activity by students, including sale/use of controlled substances, assaults, sexual misconduct, etc. I also believe there should be zero tolerance of the lewd, obscene and disrespectful behavior found in just about every public high school in this country. Much of the behavior commonplace in schools today, would have earned the kid some rough handling - by a teacher, in the first hour of the first day of the school year (and then again by his parents) - "back in the day". Can't do that anymore. Teachers used to get respect for that. Now they get lawsuits. We, as a society, are raising a generation of kids that are behaving very badly, with little or no consequence to themselves, and these policies are just a way for schools to pretend they are doing something about it. Don't blame the government, or the schools - blame the lazy, misguided, absentee parents that started this mess - if you can find them.
catamount is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-16-2005, 05:42 AM   #5
jgleason
Moderator - Theatre Guy (and computers)
 
jgleason's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Weare, NH
Posts: 8,840
Quote:
blame the lazy, misguided, absentee parents that started this mess
Couldn't agree more catamount! Too many folks apparently don't believe in personal responsibility anymore.
jgleason is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-16-2005, 05:47 AM   #6
Davestone
Florida Tile & Stone Man
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Naples Fl.
Posts: 22,687
I have four kids in the schools, and one of the gets a (referral) or a phone call on a weekly basis.The last (incident) was my daughter giving her friend a hug on the way to the bus!It's not so much the policy, as the people enforcing it.My daughter was also involved in two fights...hit by boys...it got about as much attention!Her 6-4"brother took her to school the week after.I was afraid i would lose it if i saw them,in fact one was a cousin of Edgeron James.
__________________
Dave



http://Davestonestile.com
Davestone is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-16-2005, 07:16 AM   #7
jd77
Tile and Stone Setter
 
jd77's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: kan city
Posts: 433
Quote:
Originally Posted by jjwq8
Blame the incumbent.
Cheney's rules apply.
Think of a problem.
If none exists manufacture one.
Now determine how the identified problem should be dealt wealth.
Now determine how to involve your friends and buddies.
Now sit back and watch your accounts grow.
What the heck ???

How about blaming gutless administrators that are too afraid of being sued to make reasonable decisions on an individual basis?

JD
jd77 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-16-2005, 08:25 AM   #8
tileguytodd
Official Felker Fanatic
 
tileguytodd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Northern MN
Posts: 14,398
Quote:
blame the lazy, misguided, absentee parents that started this mess - if you can find them.
In some instances ,I agree with this statement but, then again,lets take a little bit deeper look at this shall we.

Many Children of school age Have Mothers and Fathers who both Have to work.In many Instances this is not optional, it is necessary.Why??
Many companies just will not pay a living wage any longer and once they found out that they could get away with this it became epedemic.So, you no longer have a parent at home and your average company that at 1 time put family first and company second is virtually non existant anymore.
So, how does a young family man make a
1000.00 a month house payment
400.00 a month in carpayments for 2 used vehicles
100.00 a month for insurance
400.00 a month for food
200.00 a month for clothing and school related items
150.00 a month for Property taxes
250.00 a month for utilities(water sewer,phone,electric,heat and air etc)
150.00 a month for fuel and vehicle maintenance
80.00 a month in household maintenance cleaning supplies fix ups etc
And so far nobody has gotten sick, whew!!!!!

Poor guy has a fair job making 30,000.00 gross per year (but being middle management and salaried is required to work 55 hours minimum)and see's about 23,500.00 of that or about 2000.00 per month with 2,730.00 in basic bills
Fortunatly,somebody out there is willing to hire the Wife(WalMart,Home Depot etc) but they of course require some nights and weekends and they are willing to pay you about 250.00 a week.(not much but hey i take home 750.00 a month and we can go to the movies (matinee of course) 1 x per month with the extra money and stick 5 bucks in savings!!!
Now, these folks have it good compared to some.Others are
Driving without insurance because they can't afford it
Living in inadequate housing and throwing money away on rent.
taking the bus everywhere because a car,yea right how!!!

Those of us who have reached a comfortable position in life soon forget the struggles that young families have to contend with and the problems are getting worse,not better.
We work Sundays instead of taking our kids to Church because we have to.
When we have free time we are working on the car or house because we cant afford hiring it done.
Shall i continue???

Now, go ahead,blame it all on the parents,I dare you!!!
__________________
TIP YOUR TILE MAN, His Retirement plan is not nearly as lucrative as yours and his waning years will be far more painful to boot.
He gives much so you can have a Beautiful Home!!
tileguytodd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-16-2005, 10:49 AM   #9
oma
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: North Central Tx
Posts: 295
It is difficult for young families, as it was when I was young, and it is the parents who are primarily to blame when their children misbehave. Both parents working for a living does not excuse them from their responsibility to their children. If a husband and wife have to work two different shifts in order to have consistent guidance for their children, they can make that sacrifice. Rearing children is one the the most important things we do as human beings, but so many people just leave the kids to raise themselves. When I was a child, I would never have acted up in school, because I knew that if I got sent to the principal's office for misbehavior, my mother would tan my hide when I got home.
oma is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-16-2005, 10:58 AM   #10
bbcamp
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 30,274
Todd, I respectfully disagree. I was raised by 2 wage earners. I can assure you that if I ever misbehaved at school, my punishment at home made anything the school could to me pale to insignificance. In my neighborhood, we had 1 and 2 wage earner families. The kids who got into trouble at school or elsewhere came from both. The only significant difference was the level of parental involvement and the limits imposed on the kids. Those kids whose parents knew where they were and who they were with stayed out of trouble.

My stepson, Matthew, was 7 when we met. He was already a good kid, but like all kids, he tried to push the limits. One day, after weeks of repeated and ignored calls to dinner by his mother, I intervened. I called him one time, and made sure he heard me. After counting to ten and him still staring at the TV, I picked him up, stood him on his feet facing the dining room, then gave him a swat on the butt. It got his attention, and we never had to call him more than once from then on.

We live in a fairly small town, with lots of friends and family around. Matthew knew that if he got into trouble away from home, we'd find out about it. He thought his mother knew every single person in town (almost true!), so he didn't have a chance.

When he started going out, we set a curfew after discussing his plans: where he was going, who he would be with, and when he would be back. If we felt he was going somewhere he shouldn't, we told him so, and he didn't go (as far as we know ). When he started wanting to stay out past 11:30, we asked why: "Just want to hang with my friends.." That wasn't good enough, and besides, there's nothing but trouble out there after midnite, especially for teen-aged boys. I also made a point to tell him and his mother that if he were to be picked up by the police, he'd get to spend the night in jail, we'd pick him up in the morning. Never had to.

I'm just saying that parental involvement is possible, even if both parents work. Hell, it's possible even if there is only one parent. If the parents would set and enforce limits on their kids, the schools wouldn't have to.

My opinion, worth price charged.
bbcamp is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-16-2005, 12:22 PM   #11
TracyD
Registered User
 
TracyD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: East Central MN
Posts: 37
Wow, this is one thread that was definitely worth reading- a lot of great points.

I agree with tileguytodd and take it a step further by going past the companies and pointing out that the companies could pay more if they made more (in some cases they could pay more anyway) and while avoiding pointing out the obvious, it comes down to "buy American". (Quit the freakin outsourcing, and no we should NOT let illegal immigrants work legally for peanuts! Sheesh.)

Also, when you're starting out, you cannot neccessarily have everything your parents have. They worked hard to get the things they're acquired, in these days one tv is not enough, we must have 5. And the Kitchenaid blender it took mom 15 years of marriage and cooking to get, is picked up on Tuesday with a credit card because it's "on sale".

At the same time, a single wage earning family "can" make it. I grew up with divorced parents who didn't even care to speak to each other unless they absolutely HAD to. My mom, of course, being a single mom, had to work to keep our family housed and fed, but it was still understood- if we screw up not only do we get in trouble with mom, but dad would be on our case too. There were times we had the phone shut off, or had to go without some thing we thoguht we "needed"... but we made it, and the thought of doing anything to make it harder on mom was an influence on our behavior. As difficult as it is to keep food on the table- it's still a big priority to keep track of your kids.

catamount makes a lot of good points too... and since they're focusing on drugs in schools so much, would it kill them to add a firearms safety class? Or at least offer it for a price and promote the good it would do? Educated people have a great respect for guns. People who learn firearms safety from "Grand Theft Auto" and other video games... well they have a lot different views of what's ok.

I work a lot to get my kids to act respectfully. I can't tell you how disappointed I was in my own (step)daughter last night- a minor thing really, but based on simple respect.... I can assure you it was addressed, though.

My kids go nowhere without me knowing where and why. And while I like to get them involved in some things, I don't believe in scheduling their lives full of activities either. They need time to be kids too. Free time with friends is great, but that doesn't mean letting them run around an entire city unattended. We also need to pay attention to whose houses we're sending these kids over to. It's no longer good enough to know that they'll be at Janie's house. Janie's parents may be meth-heads. Now I feel like I need to know who the parents are, have been to their house, talked to them several times... and still I set limits for my daughters.

Growing up, I had a TON of respect for my Dad. I still do. Disappointing him was the LAST thing I wanted to do. I can't even explain why... I never received any sort of physical spankings or anything, but I still had a genuine fear of disappointing him. But now if "Dad" tells the kids they better get it done NOW- OR ELSE- the kids turn and reply "Or else what? You can't hurt me! I'll call child protection!" It's not that I'm for abusing our kids, but come on. People get this stuff heard by pointing out the radical cases and then guilting the rest of us into changing our own actions.
__________________
Before I judge someone, I walk a mile in his boots. That way, if I don't like him, at least I'm a mile away. And I have his boots!

Ginger Rogers did everything Fred Astaire did- Except that she did it backwards, and in heels!
TracyD is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-16-2005, 07:41 PM   #12
catamount
Registered User
 
catamount's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Duluth, Mn
Posts: 95
Quote:
Originally Posted by tileguytodd
Now, go ahead,blame it all on the parents,I dare you!!!
Todd - I appreciate your passion. Sounds like you've been there/done that. Me too. However, we're not talking about the same group of parents. Two parents working full-time outside the house doesn't preclude them from raising responsible kids. What I mean by "absentee" is parents that have "checked out" of raising their kids, no matter what their socio-economic situation. Parents can be away from home working, and still CARE about what their children are doing, and how they represent themselves and their families to the community. Parents that don't care; that let their kids get their guidance from television and video games; that spend their kids' lunch money at the bar or local dealer; that choose not to discipline their kids but rush to defend them when they've done wrong - this is the group I'm talking about, regardless of how much money they make or what neighborhod they live in.
catamount is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-16-2005, 07:59 PM   #13
Hamilton
Bucket abuser
 
Hamilton's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Wildomar Ca
Posts: 9,177
In the case i mentioned in post #1 you will agree this has nothing to
do with the parents AT ALL. The parents of this child took the responsibility
to get the child to the doctor. She was an honor role student. She was suspended from school and had time taken away from her education and
forced to take DRUG COUNCELING. What part of her doctors order was she
abusing? Even if she made the mistake of not following the school policy
to give all and any medications to the school nurse, should the punishment
be so severe? Wouldnt a simple phone call into the doctors office suffice.
This is my frustration with this topic. 0% tolerance means just that. School
administrators will not budge period. How is making a girl take drug counseling
for a problem that doesnt exist making the schools any safer? Some of the other cases involved a situation in the midwest where entire towns shut
down for hunting season. Now this you can blame the father for... but not
the child. A father took his sons truck hunting and left his rifle behind the seat. The teen drove his truck to school the next day and was randomly
searched. He didnt know his dads rifle was in the pickup, testified to by his
father. The boy was arrested and faced charges as well as expelled from
school permanently. End of story. Where is the intelligence we so blindly
send our children off to learn from.....0% tolerance was enstated to protect
our children but what happens if there is one little mistake and its your
childs future that gets ruined? Noone is perfect... shouldnt the schools
at least have a trial of sorts. This is america, innocent until proven guilty...
not in the schools.
__________________
Jack Hamilton

Hamiltontileandstone.com

Temecula Tile and Natural stone contractor
Hamilton is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-16-2005, 08:01 PM   #14
stefan
Registered User
 
stefan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: long island ny
Posts: 884
zero tolerance is bull
my oldest son is 22, four years ago in high school he got sent home for 10 days, because he had a boxcutter in his pocket, witch he needed at work the day before and he forgot to take the cutter out of his pants. all the school hade to do is, take the cutter away, call the company he was working for, but the school made a big deal out of it, because he is a easy target (white, blonde hair blue eyes). his black friend brings a 10 inch knife to school every day and believe it, the dean knows it and does nothing about it. I call that no ball's policy. has nothing to do with tolerance, just no ball's.
__________________
Stefan

http://globalceramicdesign.com
stefan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-16-2005, 09:08 PM   #15
catamount
Registered User
 
catamount's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Duluth, Mn
Posts: 95
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hamilton
In the case i mentioned in post #1 you will agree this has nothing to do with the parents AT ALL.
Not HER parents, no. Your point that every situation should be handled on a case by case basis is well taken. I couldn't agree more. Are adminstrators gutless in standing up against their own policies? - absolutely. But I believe these policies exist because this is how our schools have decided to deal with a lot of kids (and parents) behaving very badly. If there was an overwhelming majority of parents raising their kids to be polite, respectful, positive members of the community, you wouldn't have this behavior, and schools wouldn't have these policies. Now, I'm going to excuse myself from trying to solve society's problems, and go spend some time with my kids.

-Rob
catamount is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Stonetooling.com   Tile-Assn.com   National Gypsum Permabase


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 04:11 AM.


Sponsors

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright 2014 John Bridge & Associates, LLC