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Old 01-23-2018, 09:22 PM   #31
GHR
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bump....

So where do I add blocks on the front of the vanity and not pierce the front in a way that shows? See pics in last post.

I need to find my stud finder. I have a good one with the pencil mark part and deep scan. I think it has electrical scan too.

I have to be careful as both walls have plumbing. The long wall pipes I can probably figure out based on where the faucets are; the short wall goes to the laundry room behind. The pipes go through the ceiling and come down into that wall but I don't know exactly where. I don't want to hit a water pipe with a #6 screw.
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Old 01-23-2018, 09:56 PM   #32
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You could do pocket screws on your blocking or drill through the front of the cabinet with a countersink bit and straight screw it and then hit it with some putty and paint/stain or there are a number of different brackets and such that would work.
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Old 01-23-2018, 10:31 PM   #33
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I am not looking forward to drilling into the front of the cabinet. I am very concerned of doing damage and of the screws being visible. The cabinet faces a door with a 4-5 foot deep hallway. From than angle 1" down from the bottom of the countertop may show the screws. I would have to test that before I try.

Pocket screws sound more attractive... but I don't have the jig which is as much as two new sheets of wood plus glue.

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Old 01-23-2018, 11:24 PM   #34
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Pocket screws are very useful, so if you think you might be in this situation again, it is worth getting a jig. Starter kits can be had on Amazon at $30 and up.

But you don't need to use pocket screws to add blocking to your vanity to be able to better fasten your plywood top. Just pad out the interior face of the top of all 4 sides with fasteners driven from the inside. If you want to add a rail from front to back, you can face screw through the side of the rail into the end grain of that padding. Just be sure your blocking won't interfere with the sink.

For example, if the vanity face frame is 3/4" thick, and you want to fasten a 2x2 (1-1/2" x 1-1/2") to the interior face of the top rail, use 2" or 2-1/8" long screws. Preferably round/pan/washer head so you don't over drive them and have the points stick out. And ideally you drill clearance holes through the 2x2. If you drill pilot holes in the vanity top rail, make sure you use a depth stop.

As to fastening blocking through the back rail into the studs, isn't the back rail already fastened to the studs? The screw locations would tell you where the studs are. If the back rail is well fastened to the studs, you could just fasten your blocking to the back rail.

Cheers, Wayne
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Old 01-24-2018, 01:26 AM   #35
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The lowest price I see is $19 and change: https://www.amazon.com/Kreg-MKJKIT-M...cket+screw+jig
But I don't have Prime so I would not get it until next week some time so I'll probably dispense with
a tool I may use once and never again.

So, I need some 2x2 wood. Is that 2" a minimum thickness?
I'm after stiffness I guess? But need to be practical. I'll probably use perimeter blocks not through the center.
I might have some scraps of 2x4 around here. I could use those in a pinch but will probably look to get
proper 2x2 stock. What about warped 2x2 though? Should I look to use that MDF that everyone swears
by for ledgerboards? I guess that might not have enough strength though?

Yes, the back of the cabinet is fastened. Whether it's into studs or not I can only
ass-u-me it is. That it is firmly attached is my only evidence.

I'm beginning to think this needs a Mulligan. I have the remainder of the 4x8 sheets and I think with
a little issue I can use them to make a new plywood sandwich beginning with the first layer firmly
attached to cleats on the cabinet. There is bow in this wood too, but a 50lb sack of thinset on top of
the bow flattens it enough that the level hardly rocks at all. Maybe 1/8" of an inch of bow or less.
That is enough that proper fastening should remove the bow.

The problem is these pieces are under 4 foot long since they were the cut off lengths of the 4x8 piece.
I will have to butt joint and glue a 23/32 scrap onto the end.

So how do I join this scrap to the rest and make it flush with the plywood sandwich?
I think I would need to glue and screw it all to obtain a uniform surface that is flat.

Also, where should I put the thin 15/32 sheets in the sandwich? I put both on top but looking at how the
first one turned out I think they should have been in middle?
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Old 01-24-2018, 05:27 PM   #36
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Exclamation

New problem.

I got 2x2 stock for the blocks and I am mounting them in 9" lengths in front and back with 2" #8 (ONLY ga they had in 2"; Did not have #6 in 2" long).

On the sides though I cannot get my drill between the drawer guide rails and the side walls to keep even straight screw travel. These are star drive screws and the drill keeps slipping because I cannot exert even pressure. The rails are mounted almost flush with the top edge of the cabinet. I think this is visible in the photos above.

Removing the rails is NOT an option. They are attached with staples not screws. Removing them would ruin any chance of my ever having drawers again.

Somewhere around here I have a 90-degree attachment for my drill, but I'm not even sure that will fit in the tight space. There are maybe 4" between the rails and each wall. Any ideas on what to do? I am not even sure I can get a manual screw driver in there without ripping up my hands. The rails have sharp edges.
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Old 01-24-2018, 06:12 PM   #37
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Iíve had occasion to have to work long screws in tight spots as well. Try a hex driver bit (I like the torx ones much better than Phillips) in a ratchet wrench. Only adds about an inch or a bit more. Iíve even used a box wrench in REAL tight spots. Takes more time than the drill driver, but sometimes thereís no good option. If you havenít predrilled the screw holes, they do make hex bit drill bits, but I imagine trying to drill with a ratchet would take forever.
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Old 01-24-2018, 06:46 PM   #38
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Ugh! Not looking forward to using a hand tool!

I'm considering using a longer bit. These screws come with a T25 bit that
is probably 1/2" long. I can get a 6" long bit, but I'll need to re-drill the
holes lower on the wood. I think that might just clear the rails.

I could also get the single pocket screw jig and drill at the angle into the sides.
It's kind of much for only 6 screws though.
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Old 01-24-2018, 07:03 PM   #39
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Both using a right angle drill (or adapter) or using a longer bit (or bit holder) are good options.

Cheers, Wayne
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Old 01-24-2018, 08:10 PM   #40
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Lightbulb

I got it done! I drilled the 2x2 off set closer to the edge as much as I dared and
the #8 screws did not split thankfully.

I screwed a new piece of the wood down first from the top to hold it then from the
bottom. Two screws into the bottom per block and three into the wall of the cabinet
per block. A little over kill, I know.

It's as level as it will ever be. The bubble is on the edge of first line
but not quite in both long and short plane. And flat enough that the level doesn't
rock even a little bit.

The back wall is a little wavy which will be compensated for later.
I need to now glue and screw the layer together then I will work on the insert
along the short wall to make up the overhang. That is for tomorrow. I'm sore
from bending my back.
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Old 01-25-2018, 12:15 AM   #41
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+1 on sticking the torx head bit on a ratchet.
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Old 01-25-2018, 12:58 PM   #42
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Question

Bumpety bump...

With the first 23/32 piece screwed down what is correct order of battle to sandwich the rest onto it?

I have 2x 15/32 sheets and a single 23/32 sheet to bond together with the first sheet. Tightbond III and 1-5/8" screws every 6" to hold everything as before.

The way I did it first time was put the two thinner sheets together on top of
the thicker pieces, but I'm thinking now that the thin sheets may do better in center.

Is there any advantage either way?
I'm on my way out in an hour to get more glue...
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Old 01-25-2018, 01:12 PM   #43
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Why are you laminating together 2-1/2" (nominal) of plywood?

Simpler would have been to make a frame of 2x2s to go on top your vanity (or maybe 2x4s ripped in half to 1-5/8" tall), and then add 3/4" to 1" of plywood on top of that. Or if you want to be fancier, you could make a torsion box with 1/2" plywood skins and a 2x2 frame inside.

Anyway, if you are going to make a plywood sandwich, make it symmetric, so (nominal) 3/4" - 1/2" - 1/2" - 3/4".

Cheers, Wayne
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Old 01-25-2018, 06:18 PM   #44
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Yeah, it has become a chore to laminate the wood together, but I was not sure what to do. The option to put strips on top seemed even harder given how bad the wood at Home Depot. (The closest lumber yard is 15 minutes away, but is in a construction zone on one of the many highways that are being widened in Houston. So that 15 is more like 90 to get there.
Hence my using Home Depot. )

IF I end up with anymore problems with this stuff as I go forward I will probably redo it with strips as you said. In my kitchen I have to also tile and that is where the experience in this smaller size area will help.
Call it a trial run.

OK so the sheet of 23/32 with two 15/32 in middle and 23/32 on top.
Should have done that in the first place. I'm also going to spread out the glue better
and mark my screws better this time.

=
Now what do I do with my block of wood that I already glued up?
Can I turn it into a butcher block cutting board or something?
I mean the veneer top is nice. Might be able to stain it.
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Old 01-25-2018, 09:44 PM   #45
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Sounds like you are moving forward Hank.
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