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Old 12-17-2017, 02:37 AM   #16
JerseyDIYguy
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Have you demolished your old floor? That will tell you a lot about what you need to do to get your floor height right. I'm guessing you've got a fairly thick mud bed on top of plywood and/or diagonal planks.

As others have mentioned, pouring SLC on top of CBU is a bit redundant since the CBU does not add any strength. You'd really just be adding height to your floor.

I poured Ardex LBB on top of plywood primed with Ardex Primer (P-51 IIRC). I embedded heat cables (laticrete floor heat mat) in the LBB and used Tec Hydroflex liquid membrane on top of the LBB. Everything works great and has been for several years.
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Old 12-17-2017, 09:25 AM   #17
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1) use deflecto calculator to determine our joist structure is good for a ceramic tile install.
2)verify 3/4 subfloor is T&G i good shape or replace with T&G.
3)verify height required and mark on sill foam against walls where slc needs to come to.
4) install heat system and pour slc(have helper mixing)slc does not level on its own,you will have to move it around a bit.
5)let dry and then install liquid membrane preferably Laticrete liquid Hydroban(read directions).
6)let dry and install tile. Use a high quality modified thinset. I like Laticrete
trilite.
7) I would start wit a 3/16 v notch trowel. Use a wood beating block and or a grout float to hit/set tiles flat. Check with your hand to double check.Then pull 1 or 2 to see if you are getting proper coverage. If not bump up to a 1/4x1/4 notch trowel. Keep a toothbrush in your water bucket to clean up any thinset ooze.
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Old 12-17-2017, 08:54 PM   #18
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Warren, Mark, thanks for the tips.

I've been doing demo work over the last couple days, and yes, the existing tile is in a thick layer of cement (pictures attached). It appears to be a little over 1-1/4" thick, which is on top of the existing 3/4" ply... so I've got plenty of room to get two layers of ply down.

I'm leaning towards pulling up the existing ply and starting fresh. This will also let me see how the plumbing is run - I know the drain line for the downstairs tub had some corrosion pin holes... I'd hate to do all this work and not resolve any issues while I've got stuff opened up.

Deflection - another reason why I want to pull off the existing ply subfloor. I've got 2x10 joists at 16" spanning 12' with unknown wood. Which is either L/426 or L/328 depending on the condition. The sections I can see through the crawl space (now that I've done some demo) look pretty good... but I think it may be notched in areas for the plumbing.

Warren, any reason you didn't go with Ardex 8+9 over their liquid backer board?
I was thinking I should try to use stuff from the same manufacturer, just to ensure compatibility... but I guess they're probably all pretty similar.

What did you guys use to seal the gap between the tub and the membrane?... just silicone or did you use a specific membrane calk?

Thanks!
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Old 12-17-2017, 09:12 PM   #19
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Not to jump ahead to the tub surround, but I thought this was interesting... (picture attached).

Where there is no drywall/plaster in this picture is where repair work was done at some point in the past. Brown (mastic?) area appears to be original tile construction. Drywall/plaster was removed and replaced with greenboard and new tile. Those are strips of roofing shingles on the studs - presumably to shim out the drywall.

Those are 2x3 studs on the long side of the tub. All the tiles were replaced on that wall as opposed to just the lower sections at the front and rear of the tub. Makes me wonder if the 2x3's didn't offer enough strength and caused premature tile failure there. Those 2x3's are also notched where the tub lip is.
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Old 12-17-2017, 09:28 PM   #20
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I've got most of the tile and old drywall/plaster removed from the walls and ceiling, and got the tub out. Picture attached of the most productive side.

Yes, there's a rolling cart of bathroom supplies and a bunch of toilet paper We've got a full house over the holidays and I need to keep the toilet and sink operational through Christmas. I'ts been a real hassle vacuuming up and washing down everything and the end of each day.

I'll demo the rest of the bathroom after Christmas but I got enough pulled apart to get a good idea on what I need to do for for the new floor, tub, and rough opening of the replacement window.

Also, I'm still waiting on permit approvals, so I really can't move forward beyond demo.
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Old 12-21-2017, 09:25 AM   #21
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So after some thought, this is what I'm going to go with:

3/4" T&G plywood (replace existing)
1/2" ply underlayment
Patch seams with Ardex TL Patch
Prime with Ardex P-51 primer
Install heating wire
Pour 1/2" of Ardex Liquid backer board
Seal with two coats of Ardex 8+9

Any concerns about the above?... I know Hydroban was recommended (and I could still switch to that if it's considered superior), but I figured I keep the same product "family" as got a confirmation from Ardex that it's OK to use 8+9 on top of LBB (after 24 hour cure of the LBB)

I figure I'll also use the 8+9 to seal the CBU tub surround when I get to that part of the project (I was previously thinking I would just pick up some redgard or aquadefense from one of the big box stores)


Any recommendations on the best way to cut out the existing subfloor? I figure I should try to get as close as possible to the sole plate (bottom 2x4) of the wall. I'm not quite sure how to do that without cutting into the joist below.
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Old 12-21-2017, 09:41 AM   #22
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I cut my subfloor out right up against the bottom/sole plates using my trusty sawzall. I knew where the joists were so simply kept the blade at a very shallow angle when I had to go across one. a 1/16" scrape isn't going to bother them.
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Old 12-21-2017, 09:43 AM   #23
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Thanks Dan... and thanks for your message regarding the skylight.

When I get a chance I'll post a picture of where the skylight is going to go... and where I'm installing an in-line fan in relation to it.
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Old 12-21-2017, 11:42 AM   #24
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Happy to help Chris. The in-line fan will be nice, and be a bit quieter than a standard unit. From what I've read the rule of thumb is 1 CFM per 1 Sq Ft so I'm just a bit over that.
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Old 12-21-2017, 02:40 PM   #25
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My bathroom is so small (about 40 sq-ft) that I'm over 3 CFM/sq-ft!

I got bought the Continental Fan AXC Bathroom Kit 4 Inch - 147 CFM.

I was thinking about putting in a wye branch and adding another vent register (one over the bathtub/shower, and the other over the toilet area)... but with such a small area it probably doesn't make that much of a difference, so maybe not worth the effort.
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Old 12-22-2017, 07:36 AM   #26
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That thing is going to dry your hair at the same time. LOL

Seriously though, that's a lotta CFM for 40 SF. In order for it to actually move that much air I'd think you'd need a large gap at the bottom of the bathroom door, or leave the door open, or open a window.

With that much fan in 40 SF I agree the wye is overkill.
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Old 12-30-2017, 04:11 PM   #27
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Down to the joists

Ripped up the subfloor today.

I've attached pictures of the joist situation where the tiles will go (I'm standing in the area where the bathtub will go).

Joist are 2x10's spanning 12' 2" on 16" centers. Original to the house, built in 1954.

I'm not sure if I should use the "unknown wood, but in good condition" or "unknown wood, kind of cracky or knotty" The wood seems OK to me. There are some knots but that seems normal (IMHO).

I get L/426 (for 12') if I select good condition, and L/328 if I select kind of cracky/knotty. The one sistered/double joist both run the entire span (I'm not sure why these were doubled).

Thoughts?... good enough, or do I need to tear down the ceiling below and beef these up some?

Only area that concerns me is behind the toilet where there is noting under the pylwood.. that is the one area that had a crack in the original tile (now I know why).

Oh... I don't know why the water lines were run like that. Seems crazy to me... I'm going to run new lines through the center of the joists.
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Old 12-31-2017, 07:00 PM   #28
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bump...

Thoughts on joists?

Thanks
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Old 12-31-2017, 07:30 PM   #29
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That spot behind the toilet could use some work. As for the rest, the entire perimeter needs blocking between the joists but other than that it doesnt look too bad.
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Old 01-01-2018, 12:10 PM   #30
kickstart
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Thanks Ryan,

Yeah, I'll do something behind the toilet drain, and add blocking around the perimeter.

There's also a large notch out of one of the 2x10's under the tub, where the tub drain connects to the trap (not in the pictures above)... so I'm going to try to strengthen that up as well.

Speaking of the tub... it goes directly on top of the sub floor, not on top of the 1/2 underlayment, correct?... so, I would put the underlayment down after I install the tub.... or is it better to put the tub on top of both layers (subfloor and underlayment)?
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