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Old 11-29-2017, 09:48 PM   #1
ShawnD724
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New construction tile problems

Hey everyone! I'm looking for some advice in dealing with our builder, Charter Homes & Neighborhoods. As you can see in the photos, the water in the shower runs away from the drain to the bottom right of the photo. The niche also had to be replaced because we had the bull nose tile trimming it out but the original installer made it crooked. They replaced it by putting the bull nose tile on the inside of the niche which created a .5 inch caulking line.

The big bossman at Charter says we aren't happy with anything they do, no matter how they fix it. We agreed to a schluter tile edge for the replacement with the previous project manager but that was never communicated to the new project manager.

Am I wrong in thinking the water shouldn't run away from the drain like it does? (I can provide a link to a video since the pic isn't that clear). Isn't a .5 inch caulk line a little too much? I'm looking for some support so I can plead my case to have the floor and niche wall redone.
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Old 11-30-2017, 12:21 AM   #2
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Welcome to the forum, Shawn.

You're not asking too much on either count.

Water should never collect on any part of the shower floor. Every part of the floor should gradually slope to the drain at a rate of at least 1/4" per running foot. There's really no reason for it to be otherwise.

Bullnose tile are rarely wide enough to make up the depth of a standard niche. But that's no excuse to make up the rest of it with a wide caulk or grout joint. There's also no excuse for the uneven tile around the niche.

It's all just sloppy work. If it's indicative of the rest of the shower, I would be worried about the waterproofing layer and how the tile are bonded.
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Old 11-30-2017, 05:20 AM   #3
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Of course you're not happy, it's done incorrectly. I like how their comments try and belittle you because you're asking for a finish product to be..... well... finished.

Current conditions do bring the the whole shower build into question, including a replaced niche. The floor says it all though, puddles on a shower floor is kindergarten tile.
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Old 11-30-2017, 05:38 AM   #4
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They also didn't 45 the bullnose which looks bad.

Water should always run to the drain as we all know.

Good luck and i hope it works out for you.
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Old 11-30-2017, 07:01 AM   #5
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Do you have any pics of the shower during construction? You are not being unreasonable. Can you place a level running from the drain to the low corner and show us us close what it looks like? You should have 1/4" per foot fall towards the drain.
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Old 11-30-2017, 10:24 AM   #6
ShawnD724
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Thanks for the feedback! I really appreciate it!

Here are 2 photos from the repair. Unfortunately I don't have any from the original construction. I'll be able to do the level test later tonight.
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Old 11-30-2017, 10:48 AM   #7
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I have a few follow up questions from what I can see.
1. Is that cement board behind the tile? If so was a moisture barrier like plastic sheeting used? If not, did it look like there was a painted on waterproofing?
2. It looks like a traditional pan using a liner, but it looks like some sort of skim coat. What's going on there?
3. Are there screws attaching the door frame into the curb?
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Old 11-30-2017, 11:33 AM   #8
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1. I believe that is cement board behind the tile. I do not recall seeing any plastic sheeting. I didn't see any type of painted on waterproofing. I included another pic from early construction that shows the white home wrap which is what you see in the previous pics where the niche goes.

2. So in order to repair the shower floor, the builder and the contractor decided they were going to lift the drain and put a new floor over the old floor. We didn't have enough tile left over (same lot) for them to do the niche and rip out the bottom row of wall tiles to replace the floor from scratch. They also didn't want to remove the shower enclosure.

3. I am assuming there are screws attaching the door to the curb because it doesn't flex when opening/closing/cleaning.
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Old 11-30-2017, 01:01 PM   #9
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1. IF, that was the case aesthetics are the least of my concerns. CBU isn't waterproof and without a moisture barrier (the lowest form of protection), or a topical waterproofing which is preferred you dont have a properly built shower.

2. The patch job they did to replace the lower tile is going to be especially vulnerable because there is no way to tie everything together.

3. Penetrations in a curb are at the top of the list for causes of failure. There should never be a hole put in a horizontal surface.

We have industry guidelines that show how to properly build a shower and it appears these guys have never looked into how to accomplish this unfortunately.
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Old 11-30-2017, 01:09 PM   #10
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I am with Ryan, I think you may have bigger problems. Don't know for a fact, but it sure looks like it based on the visual.
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Old 11-30-2017, 02:40 PM   #11
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Shawn, I've got an ongoing thread of a similar situation with my tract home builder and the mess of a shower (http://www.johnbridge.com/vbulletin/...d.php?t=123768). I've had to communicate almost daily with my GC, found that the crew that gets tile install subcontracted out isn't heavily trained in showers, and have had the demo redone 4 times because they either stopped after only addressing a minor part of the problem or addressed the problem incorrectly. I have since purchased a copy of the TCNA to refer to when dealing with my GC and tile subcontractor. It seems like someone who built it hastily enough to not care about something big like the slope of the floor likely missed a slew of other issues. Our master bathroom has been being repaired for nearly two months now. Good luck and I hope they get it right without too much headache.

At a minimum make sure the pan passes a 24-hour leak test before accepting it. I'm with the others though, I'd be wary of the walls as well.
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Old 11-30-2017, 02:58 PM   #12
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I agree with the others, it appears you have no waterproofing.

I'd get a written statement from the builder as to the exact waterproofing method used.
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Old 11-30-2017, 07:06 PM   #13
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It's not hard to rip down the 3 inch BN to about 1 3/4 and then add another 1 3/4 or so cut behind it, doing away with the large grout joint.

I have the same concern as the others.
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Old 11-30-2017, 07:46 PM   #14
ShawnD724
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Thanks for all of the feedback and pointing me towards the other link! I find all of this information very useful and appreciate every comment!

I used a 4 ft level. Obviously the level does not reach from corner to corner. I did not place it all the way in the corner because that corner tile slopes up/is higher than the rest so I didn't feel like it gave a true measurement.

One foot into the level, we are not at 1/4 inch. The other funny thing I noticed, in order to get the level, level...I had to raise the end that was in the corner. I would have expected to raise the end that was closer to the drain.

Am I measuring incorrectly or should I be doing something different?

Thanks again everyone!
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Old 11-30-2017, 07:54 PM   #15
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Ideally you have a level that would go from corner to the drain, then measure how much fall you have by raising the end at the drain until it reads level. Or have a level on top of a straight edge that reaches from corner to drain. To see if the floor has low or high spots get a short straight edge and move it to various spots and see if it teeters or if you can see daylight under it indicating low spots.
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