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Old 11-01-2017, 11:17 PM   #16
Steve in Denver
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Blocking.

The 2x4 on the flat sounds like a pretty easy approach, but I don't have a lot of confidence in my ability to attach the 2x4s and get good contact/support with the floor.

I like the idea of some OSB or plywood attached to the top/bottom of the joist, then a 2x6 attached with joist hangers. Anyone have an idea about what "thick enough" would be for the plywood/OSB in this application? And is one or the other (ply vs OSB) preferred?

The joists are MacMillan TJI/Pro 150 11-7/8, if that matters.
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Old 11-01-2017, 11:32 PM   #17
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Hi CX,

Thanks for your comments.

A) For live loads, the controlling case in the beam gravity load design is applying the live load to the backspan only, with no live load on the cantilevered portion.

The dead load of the cantilevered portion does provide a small reduction to the gravity load on the beam. However with loads of 40 psf live and 10 psf dead, and a 6' backspan with 2' cantilever, the magnitude of the effect is only about 3% (1/30) of the total load effect.

B) For spanning ~14" between joists, a flatwise 2x member would be plenty. My concern is the connection of the blocking to the I-joist, I don't know how to design that. Is it OK to attach to the top flange only, and are toe nails/screws into the side of the top flange acceptable?

Cheers, Wayne
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Old 11-01-2017, 11:39 PM   #18
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Wayne, I don't believe the joist manufacturer would accept any attachment to the top chord at all in your proposed application. I've never asked one of them, though, but I know they can be really sensitive to anything that might damage a chord.

I think the attachment of a block, similar to a squash block, to the sides of the web and attaching your cross-blocking to that would win manufacturer's approval. I have gotten approval for that on one occasion. For that we used construction adhesive and a vertical block on each side of the web with the blocks screwed together through the web section. We were then able to attach to the vertical blocks.
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Old 11-02-2017, 12:29 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve
The joists are MacMillan TJI/Pro 150 11-7/8, if that matters.
Google turns up the Weyerheuser spec sheet on these as the first hit. Give them a call and see what they say; if you do, please let us know their response.

Annoyingly, the spec sheet says "Bridging or mid-span blocking is not required but may enhance floor performance if properly installed" but doesn't provide a detail on how to do it, as far as I can see.

Cheers, Wayne
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Old 11-02-2017, 10:57 PM   #20
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I emailed Weyerheuser technical support with my situation.

They referred me to this document: https://www.weyerhaeuser.com/applica...48_TJ-4000.pdf

and had this to say:

Our standard detail, PB1, shows our recommended method of attaching blocking to TJI floor joists. This method relies on the use of 2x4 nailers to connect the blocking to the TJI. This detail can be found on page 10 of our TJI specifiers guide, TJ-4000, which I will provide in the link at the bottom of this message.


(I have attached the PB1 diagram he references)

From what I can discern, this is more or less what CX was describing. I'm planning on implementing this tomorrow.

Thanks for the input on this. I feel better now.


Edit: To be clear, I'm not planning on doing exactly what is in the diagram, rather my understanding of what CX mentioned...screw the 2x4 nailers to the web of the joist, then hangers to the 2x4.
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Old 11-03-2017, 10:35 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve
...screw the 2x4 nailers to the web of the joist, then hangers to the 2x4.
Steve, if you elect to attach your 2x4 "nailer" to only one side of the joist, I'd very strongly recommend you screw the joist to the nailer, not vice-versa. And, of course, pre-drill the joist web before attaching. And I'd want some construction adhesive in there, too.

My opinion; worth price charged.
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Old 11-03-2017, 11:40 PM   #22
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Thanks, CX. I did use nailers on both sides of all joists. (as well as construction adhesive)

It was a damn lot of work. Only 9 joist bays and 3 blocks per bay, but it ended up being a 10 hour day before I was done. I got pretty good at it by the end of the day...

I have to say it worked out well based on how the floor feels (very noticeable difference), but it would have been so much easier with "normal" joists. What I ended up with seems like extreme overkill, but it's done and I'm happy.

I forgot to take a picture, but I will post one tomorrow.

In other news, I bought a Makita 9403 4" belt sander...so far I'm pretty impressed - definitely the best belt sander I have ever used. Pretty straightforward, no frills machine. Appears to be a workhorse.

Thanks again to all.

-Steve
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Old 11-04-2017, 09:47 AM   #23
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Any kind of modifications with engineered joists is more of a PITA than the same operation with dimension wood joists in my experience, Steve. But I still much favor the engineered joists for consistent straight (albeit with a bit of a crown), uniform pieces of tested strength and rigidity.

Interesting about the belt sander. The Makita 3" belt sander I once had was one of the only Makita tools I would ever have told folks not to buy. Was never really happy with mine and went back to a trusty Porter Cable.

Maybe the 4" Makita is better built than their 3" model or maybe they have improved upon both since I tossed mine away years ago.
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Old 11-04-2017, 10:00 AM   #24
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Or maybe I'm not as discerning as you are when it comes to belt sanders... Also I have only used it for 2 hours at this point. WAY better than the Ridgid 3" I have.

What I like:
Great dust collection
Very quiet
Powerful and can be used continuously without overheating
Easy to control

I wish it had variable speed, but I'm not sure how much that matters.

What was it about the 3" that you didn't like?
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Old 11-04-2017, 11:48 AM   #25
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Four-inch sanders are a bit different animal than three-inch, so it may be apples and oranges here. I've never tried the Makita four-inch. Those bigger belt sanders are wonderful in the shop, but get pretty heavy for some kinds of on-site work for those of us of the smaller variety. Don't know how heavy that Makita four-incher might be, but a four-inch Porter Cable is a whole handful for me.

I've never seen a variable speed belt sander of any stripe. Can't say as I've ever even considered that as a feature.
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Old 11-04-2017, 11:52 PM   #26
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Maybe it's a new thing, but variable speed belt sanders are pretty common these days...the norm, probably. I don't think I would use it much - if I want it to go slower, I just apply a bit more pressure...

The Makita 4" sander is 13.0 lbs
The Porter Cable 4" sander is 16.0 lbs

Yeah, it's a bit heavy, but for what I'm doing (sanding the seams in the subfloor) it's great.

I'll have to retract my praise for dust collection...today it wasn't nearly as good at sucking up the dust...it may be related to the 36 grit belt and the large volume of dust it produces.
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Old 11-05-2017, 09:40 PM   #27
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Posting a picture of the blocking for anyone who stumbles upon this thread in the future.

The joist web was sandwiched with 2x6 pieces (2x4 wasn't wide enough for the joist hangers) on either side with construction adhesive and 4 screws. (pilot holes for the first side of the sandwich).

Blocking was 2x6 installed with joist hangers and screws. Construction adhesive on the top of the block. Joist hangers are probably overkill, but gave me an easy way to install the blocking with some upward pressure with the subfloor.
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Old 11-05-2017, 09:57 PM   #28
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Joist manufacturer should have no problem at all with that, Steve.

Nice Job.
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Old 11-05-2017, 11:49 PM   #29
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If you were to ignore the fact that in this case the plywood was run in the wrong direction, and considering that the blocking was just supplemental, could one dispense with the joist hangers and just toenail the blocking in with 3" screws?

The hangers seem like the most tedious part of it all.
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Old 11-06-2017, 09:07 AM   #30
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I would say yes, Kevin, and that's probably what I would have done if I did the blocking the way he did it.
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