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Old 09-15-2017, 02:13 PM   #1
Shady at Best
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Ditra Duo Thermal Break. Is it worth it?

A buddy is wanting heated flooring in their master bedroom and bath. They are using ditra heat. It's being installed on a concrete slab. The question. Is there a noticeable heat wise difference between using the ditra heat duo vs the regular ditra heat.
Electricity usage isn't an issue. They are hoping for faster heat up time and heat retention.

Thanks

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Old 09-15-2017, 03:36 PM   #2
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Schluter thinks so:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Schluter Ditra Heat Data Sheet
In laboratory testing, DITRA-HEAT-DUO reduced floor warming response time from 68F (20C) to 78F (25.5C) by approximately 80% (90 minutes) compared to DITRA-HEAT over a concrete substrate. Wood substrates act as insulators and typically do not pose the same challenges as concrete substrates. In the same laboratory testing, DITRA-HEAT-DUO only reduced floor warming response time from 68F (20C) to 78F (25.5C) by approximately 20% (5 minutes) compared to DITRA-HEAT over a plywood substrate. Schluter-DITRA-HEAT-E-HK heating cables were spaced at three studs in all of the above tests. Results above are based upon laboratory testing. Actual results may vary depending on various factors, including concrete substrate thickness, concrete substrate temperature, room temperature, heat losses, etc.
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Old 09-15-2017, 05:28 PM   #3
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Thanks. But i don't trust what schluter says. Plus, i called schluter and the girl said things that contradict what the website says.

Has anyone physically noticed a difference between the products

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Old 09-15-2017, 06:22 PM   #4
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Years ago I did few bathrooms in a house, there was one in basement on slab. There was significant difference in time of heating up, on slab took much longer than on plywood. It was Neuheat mat.
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Old 09-15-2017, 08:24 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Travis
But i don't trust what schluter says. Plus, i called schluter and the girl said things that contradict what the website says.
Could you tell us exactly what contradictory things she said?
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Old 09-16-2017, 09:36 AM   #6
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Looks like they've changed the name of it. It used to be called Ditra-Heat TB (thermal break). Anyone know if there's been tweaks to the actual product?

Here's a very unscientific opinion: I've used this stuff and it's noticeably thicker and has a thick fleece on the bottom of it. So based only on the way the product looks- I would guess that there's something to Schluter's claim.

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Old 09-16-2017, 01:03 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HS345 View Post
Could you tell us exactly what contradictory things she said?
The person said that there is really no difference in warm up times, no noticeable difference on concrete, that duo is not intended intended to be installed on 2nd story's or wood foundations, although it acts as a sound damper on second stories.
She said that the only thing that it does is blocks a percentage of the heat from transferring to the slab.

I think there were a few other things but i stopped paying attention when i realized that the person didn't know what they were talking about.


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Old 09-17-2017, 01:00 PM   #8
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Remember the physics of radiant heat. Heat goes to cold. On a slab, the radiant will travel to the cold and equalize before progressing upwards. A barrier will help but in reality you would need a minimum of 2" for it to be noticeably effective. There was a product we used to use with NuHeat from Midwest products called Insulament that is similar to what's on the back of the Ditra Heat mat. It helped a bit.
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Old 09-17-2017, 05:21 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave
On a slab, the radiant will travel to the cold and equalize before progressing upwards.
It's not quite that simple. Warm up time is definitely a dynamic process, not an equilibrium process.

Heat from the wire will migrate in all directions via conduction, according to the R-values of the materials involved. Concrete has a very low R-value, so it will transfer heat very well. Inserting a small layer of material with a higher R-value can make a significant difference in how much heat initially goes downward rather than upward to heat the surface of the tile.

Cheers, Wayne
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Old 09-17-2017, 09:14 PM   #10
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Ditra TB

Electric heat will heat the floor without the "TB" but the cost of running the system will be higher because the concrete will be sucking heat and costing money.
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Old 09-18-2017, 03:56 PM   #11
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Wayne from experience (had Nuheat on basement floor) with a similar material that is under the Ditra Heat Mat, it took forever to warm the floor and the electric bill was quite steep.
In house two I wised up and did 4" rigid insulation with hydronic radiant in slab. I also made sure there was lots of drainage pipe under slab.
So economical to run and the comfort is out if this world.
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Old 09-18-2017, 04:49 PM   #12
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Dave I don't doubt that using Ditra Heat Duo on a concrete slab on grade without any insulation underneath will take forever to heat up and will use alot of electricity. Plain Ditra Heat would probably take two forevers and cost twice as much. :-)

Basically, electric resistance heat on an uninsulated slab on grade is a bad application. The thin insulation layer on Ditra Heat Duo will make it slightly less bad.

Cheers, Wayne
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Old 09-27-2017, 06:02 PM   #13
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Anyone notice hollow sounding tiles when setting on top of ditra heat duo.
Thinset is both schluter ditra set, and ardex x5. Tiles are back buttered. No difference in sound been between the 2 different thinsets.


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Old 10-23-2017, 04:44 PM   #14
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hollow tiles on ditra heat

" i just installed a 500 sq ft master bathroom floor with pan included
and yes the entire floor sounds terribly hollow i used a 1/4" trowel and mixed the thinset a little wetter than normal to be sure it stuck well and after installing and grouting floor i noticed that its scary hollow
i know that i installed everything properly but im still not comfortable with how the floor sounds need to talk to a rep about this
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Old 10-24-2017, 04:15 PM   #15
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I think schluter changed something with the backing on the ditra heat membrane awhile back cuz it's a pain in the neck to get thinset transfer on it now.
Awhile back I had to pull up a whole room of it that I had put down with ditra set mixed to the correct consistency for applying membranes because it just didn't bond.
Last job I did with ditra heat I used laticrete 254 to bond it to the slab worked a lot better but it was breaking the rules
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