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Old 03-03-2015, 07:30 PM   #16
JCubed
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Finally had the chance to really start working on this, have the area fully gutted. Undid most of the poorly put together plumbing that was complete.

New Question:
The area you can see that has the main house drain and the vent (I believe) coming out of the slab, obviously that takes a large chunk of my bathroom up. My plan is to utilize that space by building a bench around and over it. There is a closet on the other side of that wall that will provide access if an emergency arises.

The house is a bi-level with the "main" floor being the lower level (basement) which is where this bathroom is. What I've researched so far is that it isn't advisable to use lumber to build a bench on a slab, but to use masonry, concrete blocks. I would like to leave as much access under the bench as possible in case something happens where the main house drain needs to be touched. With that being said, is it truly not correct to use lumber to build the bench and if not could I use Kerdi board? I understand the seats need sloped as standard. I am also planning to frame around the drain running along the back wall and make it into a tall ledge.

As for the rest, I'm in the process of digging back the drain for the shower to connect it as 2" as well as correct the concrete work around the main drain. From there I plan to use 2 shower heads on the left well and an overhead rainshower head. As for waterproofing I'm 100% going Kerdi, though still undecided if I use deck mud or a Kerdi presloped tray for the floor.
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Old 03-03-2015, 08:33 PM   #17
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Hi Jeremy, look like you've gotten a good start.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeremy
What I've researched so far is that it isn't advisable to use lumber to build a bench on a slab, but to use masonry, concrete blocks. I would like to leave as much access under the bench as possible in case something happens where the main house drain needs to be touched.
I used 2" polystyrene panels to build up a bench using a technique I lern't from RipRap. 25 PSI panels work well and are easy to cut and work. Lowes branded panels meet ASTM C578 Type IV (25 psi rating) as does Owens Corning Foamular 250.

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I stacked mine like a layer cake but you could build a bench similar to the methods used in this video by Schluter.
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Old 03-03-2015, 08:59 PM   #18
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I did come across that thread in my search and have watched the Kerdi video multiple times now, I wasn't sure if it would be correct to use the Kerdi board exactly as used in the video, but directly on the concrete floor. Also since the vent comes out of the slab and goes directly into the wall, is it still necessary for me to bring the backer board (I'm using hardiboard since i have a lot that was purchased early and not returnable) all the way to the floor along that right wall since the bench will be going against it or can I bring the back down to the top of the vent where it enters the wall cavity. That would mean the backer would still extend 6-12" under the seat of the bench.

Last in the Kerdi video, they don't address how they slope the seat of the bench, would I just cut the supports of the bench with the slope required and then trim the seat to still be flush against the backer?
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Old 03-03-2015, 09:07 PM   #19
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Hi Jeremy,

Can you explain the drain system a little? Namely what the two open hubs are to accept? It's a little unconventional looking and tough to decider what's going on. Also it looks like some of your wall studs need to be addressed where notched (or removed) for the water supply lines and drain if you plan on them to support shower wall tile.
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Old 03-03-2015, 10:04 PM   #20
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I'd need to see more of what's under the slab there at the confluence of the drain pipes to comment much on that, Jeremy, but I would think you could at least move the whole of it closer to the wall if not into it.

There is no real reason not to construct a wood framed bench on concrete SOG, as far as I'm concerned, when you're using a direct bonded waterproofing system for your shower.

You don't appear to have any vapor barrier under your concrete, but perhaps I just can't see it in your photos. Using KDAT treated wood for the sole plates would be a good idea, but you might also get by with regular KD lumber if you use some roofing felt or SilSeal under the plates.

A water vapor emissions test of your slab would be a good idea to determine just how much of a problem you might have, if any.

My opinion; worth price charged.
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Old 03-04-2015, 07:06 AM   #21
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Pete- That "drain" looking system is only still there to keep the pipes whole while working and figuring out the real drain, originally I was going to have a bathtub and a shower here, the person I had hired to do the work didn't really know what they were doing and made a mess, that is a left over part of the work, that will NOT remain. As far as the studs are concerned, are you referring to the corner area where there are supply and drain lines in the same area? That was like that when we originally tore the walls down, for some reason the original individual hired decided to re-run the sink drain from the adjacent room even though its ran exactly how it was before. I can replace those corner studs so they go all the way to the floor, but are there any other studs you see that I need to take care of? Is the notched stud where the plumbing was started as well as the stud with the hole for the vent on the opposite wall ok?

cx- There is no vapor barrier in the long rectangle area because I just cut that concrete to run the drain. The square area around the drains, that was there from the original construction, there was no vapor barrier and it had a small wooden frame in it embedded into the concrete that was well rotted. I plan to replace the vapor barrier after I correct the drain and before I pour the concrete. I am using the Kerdi drain in my layout. Just so I understand, if there is no moisture issue with the slab, or I correct it if there is one. I can build the bench from lumber (either using the right lumber or on top of roofing felt) up to the backer, then use backer over that sloped properly, then I can build my floor pan and Kerdi over it all for waterproofing?
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Old 05-09-2015, 04:29 PM   #22
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So after work on the bathroom slowing for me to make any progres,. I made the decision to have the plumbing done by a professional (?) today. They ran the copper and drain and started some concrete work. All looked well until I saw the drain they installed in the slab. Now at this point I am still moving forward with using the kerdi system for waterproofing but with a mud shower pan.

I had already purchased a correct drain based off what I had researched and for some reason they installed the drain you see pictured. My concern is this appears to be a receptor style drain for a preformed fiberglass pan. As far as I can tell and what I gather from the manufacture website there are no weep holes for this style of drain. Am I correct that this drain is 100% not appropriate for my plans or am I going to be safe using this.
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Old 05-09-2015, 04:44 PM   #23
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If you're using the Kerdi system, you want the Kerdi drain. They do make a retrofit adapter that can sometimes be used, but why do that on a new system?

So, the plumber installed the wrong drain... my first instinct is to get them back and ask them WTF and then have them to do it right, but... generally plumbers don't do a good job setting the drain at the right height and level. You're better off just cutting off the wrong drain and letting us help you install the proper drain correctly.
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Old 05-09-2015, 05:01 PM   #24
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Yea, I figured that's where I would have to go. I was under the impression that I could use any shower drain for a tile shower with weep holes since I'm using a mud pan with kerdi membrane over top rather than the actual kerdi preformed shower base.
To make this worse, the drain is encased in concrete since they filled the channel in the slab cut for the drain to run.

If it's wrong it's wrong though and I will have to redo it. Is there any method to cut out the old drain without chipping out all the concrete surrounding it?
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Old 05-09-2015, 05:07 PM   #25
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Jeremy, there are no weep holes in a direct bonded waterproofing membrane drain such as the Kerdi drain. If you want to use a clamping ring drain with such a membrane, you'll need an adapter piece that allows the drain to be set into a "divot" in the mud bed. You don't even have the correct drain to allow that if you wanted to do it.

As Jason points out, there is really no sense in using anything but the proper drain with the direct bonded membrane system.

Yes, you'll need to chip out a little concrete to replace your drain with the proper one, but not much. You'll need an inside pipe cutter to remove the current drain with a minimum of chipping.

My opinion; worth price charged.
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Old 05-09-2015, 05:37 PM   #26
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I agree that there's no sense in using anything other than the correct drain for the system. Luckily I already have the inside diameter pipe cutter and the concrete likely won't be fully set by the time I get home this evening so hopefully I will still have a chance to fix this.

I am going to call the guy that did this though, I paid for it to be done right. Would it be correct that my understanding of this type of drain only being used for fiberglass showers and should never be used in a tile floor situation regardless of waterproofing method being that there is no weep holes if necessary, there is no clamping ring or anywhere to bond the waterproofing material to?
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Old 05-10-2015, 03:18 PM   #27
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You are correct.

If you have the inside pipe cutter, it might be easier just to cut off the drain that the plumber left you with. You'll spend more time on the phone explaining what you want than you'll spend cutting the drain off.

Then you can attach the Kerdi drain (or the three-part drain if you decide to go that route) at the appropriate time.
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Old 05-10-2015, 04:15 PM   #28
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Your understanding is correct, Jeremy.

[Edit] Mmmm, guess Kevin already covered that.
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Old 07-16-2015, 07:02 PM   #29
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Lots of progress since my last post,
-Corrected concrete work
-Corrected all drain piping size to code and properly fit for kerdi drain (which I now have)
-Adjusted depth of copper piping in wall so trim will fit properly after tiling.
-Built the bench using suggested methods

Now I am on to hanging concrete board that I am nearly done with and have a few more basic questions.
First-
Do I install concrete board walls down to the floor and then build my shower pan to the wall or does the pan come first and then I concrete board down to the shower floor.

Second-
I'm having a hard time deciding on curb construction. The opening is quite wide and I was hoping to use a Kerdi curb which I understand I can piece multiple together but I would waste a large portion of the second curb. Am I better off using something like sill-seal on the slab, using the proper 2x4's stacking and using metal lathe which I would then use the deck mud over to construct my curb? Another alternative I saw was a goof proof curb I could piece together as the shell and then I assume just use the deck mud over that.
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Old 07-16-2015, 07:12 PM   #30
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How about using bricks? Lots of guys use them. They are cheap and easily workable. Use your thinset to adhere them together and to the floor.
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