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Old 06-03-2013, 06:57 AM   #1
xmptsunami
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Kerdi Valve Seal and Moentrol Valves

I'm about halfway through my sauna/double shower/clawfoot tub room and I've run into a problem.

My tile guy has installed the kerdi seals for the mixing valve, but I've got the moentrol valves with the stops and the valves are too big for the kerdi seal.

I haven't been able to find anything about this conflict on the net. I can't be the first guy to run into this problem.

?????
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Old 06-03-2013, 09:00 AM   #2
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Welcome Matt,

Got pics? We like pics.

Normally we get the kerdi as close as humanly possible then kerdi fix the valve body tot he kerdi. Kerdi board is superior in this case.
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Old 06-03-2013, 09:54 AM   #3
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Ok, here's the pics.

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The wall behind is 1/2 inch green drywall with kerdi on top. We used the kerdi seal, which only comes in a 4 1/2 inch size. I went to dry fit my valve, which is a moentrol valve with the stops on the sides. To get the valve far enough in the hole I've had to remove the back side of the drywall. I'll add more explanation in my next post.

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Old 06-03-2013, 10:01 AM   #4
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The green and red aarows both point at the stop valves. These valves are used to shut off the water pressure when servicing or changing the valve cartridge. The green aarow points to the stop that is accessible through the kerdi seal. The red aarow points to where I've dug a hole into the drywall to clearance for the other stop.

I've dug as far as the face paper of the drywall, but haven't touched the kerdi. I'm within 1/4 inch of where Moen wants the valve mounted. To move the valve further into the wall I'm either going to have to grind down the stop valve set screw, or drill out a clearance hole in my porcelain, which would require the kerdi fix to seal afterward.

The stops on the valve are optional, but I'm not sure if the valve without the stops is smaller or not.

Seems I wouldn't have this problem if I used the Moen Posi Temp Valve instead of the higher end Moentrol.

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Old 06-03-2013, 10:03 AM   #5
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Well, in my non-professional-ness sees the picture, and seems to think that the use of a silicone sealant between the tile and the cover trim of your shower control valve will compensate for any kerdi not fitting 100% up to the valving system.

But I could be way wrong.
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Old 06-03-2013, 10:06 AM   #6
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Screw Loose,

You're absolutely right,

I'm just surprised that I seem to be the first person on the internet to post about this incompatibility.

Hopefully this thread may help someone else out.
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Old 06-03-2013, 10:37 AM   #7
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Matt,

Was the black plaster guard used to rough in the valves?
You want the guard to be flush with the finished wall.
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Old 06-03-2013, 10:42 AM   #8
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The valve is 1/4 inch from being where the plaster ring wants it to be.

To go any further into the wall I have to start cutting out porcelain.
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Old 06-03-2013, 12:43 PM   #9
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Matt, it looks like the valve is shifted a little to the right (as looked at from the front). The right hand stop screw should just be visible/accessible through the plaster guard hole.

Looks like it's not soldered in yet so just move it a little to the left? In practice, after the initial flush, the stops are rarely used, easier to shut off the main water to change the cartridge.
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Old 06-04-2013, 11:41 AM   #10
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We are running into the same problem. The 'Kerdi shower kit' came with the kerdi valve fitting, but it's too small if we leave the two shut offs open to the shower and it bumps into them so it doesn't install well.
I hadn't thought of putting kerdi up to the valve and then kerdi fixing it, but that seems the best seal against any water behind the tile getting into the wall through that hole. The valve is such an odd shape I'll have to look tonight to see how that might work. The builder guy helping me out seems to think it's overkill (sealing and patching), but he's game when I ask to do something he's not sure of.
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Old 06-06-2013, 01:50 PM   #11
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I just did this install. Schluter does not (yet) make a seal to fit this. My Moen valve had a round gray plastic "plaster ring" that I left in place. I cut the drywall and Kerdi as close as I could and sealed the gap with polyurethane caulk. I'll try to post a pic after I get home.

I believe the Moen trim piece has a partial rubber seal to help deflect water.
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Old 06-06-2013, 04:07 PM   #12
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Horst- those plaster guards are temporary only, they're not to be left in place after the wall finish is installed. If it's in there and covered, leave it. If your valve or cartridge needs maintenance, might need to break it out later.

If the Kerdi Valve Seal doesn't work for your specific valve, don't use it. Many Kerdi showers out there don't have the valve seals and work just fine - those valve seals have only been out for a few years. I will disagree with our friend Geoff here

Quote:
Originally Posted by Geoff
In practice, after the initial flush, the stops are rarely used, easier to shut off the main water to change the cartridge.
If you're spending the money on a valve with stops, then don't cover them up. The reason for the stops is that it's easier to *not* shut the whole house, condo, apartment complex or whatever than just turning the stop screws.

For keeping water out of the wall, the trim escutcheon has a gasket on it, which helps. After the escutcheon is installed, run a bead of clear 100% silicone around it, leaving a 1/4" gap at the very bottom.
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Old 06-07-2013, 10:26 AM   #13
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Quote:
those plaster guards are temporary only, they're not to be left in place after the wall finish is installed. If it's in there and covered, leave it. If your valve or cartridge needs maintenance, might need to break it out later.
On the Moen Exacttemp valve the installation illustrations show the plaster ground is left in place. http://www.moen.com/shared/docs/prod...ns/s3371sp.pdf
Same with Moentrol valves although it is a little vague. They often recommend a hole opening around 5-1/4" which would provide service access and allow removal of the plaster ground if needed. Some Moen valves, if I recall, don't have or require a plaster ground. BTW, Moen instruction manuals, IMHO, are about the worst I've seen. I've seen Moen valves go 40 years without leaking.

Based on my experience, if their are women in the house, turning off the water takes discussion and planning.

Quote:
For keeping water out of the wall, the trim escutcheon has a gasket on it, which helps. After the escutcheon is installed, run a bead of clear 100% silicone around it, leaving a 1/4" gap at the very bottom.
Agreed!
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Old 06-10-2013, 01:44 PM   #14
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How I sealed my Moen Exacttemp plaster ground with polyurethane caulk. Might be overkill since the Moen trim will have a strip of foam rubber.
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Old 06-10-2013, 01:48 PM   #15
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Thanks for that picture. I think I will go home and make mine look similar.
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