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Old 08-21-2012, 08:16 AM   #31
Peerless Tile
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Have a CBP demo here at Daltile Cola, SC for the Fusion Grout tomorrow. I'm gonna have to check it out for sure. Curious about coverage.
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Old 08-21-2012, 09:16 AM   #32
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CX and I will attend a demo tomorrow, Wednesday, at Cox Tile In San Antonio -- 2:PM. 111 East Turbo -- not far from the airport.
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Old 08-21-2012, 10:10 PM   #33
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More feed back

The crossville tile still had heavy grout haze even with two types of sealer. Sealer didnt make a difference. As for the base we grouted the grout just dug out. Had to refill joints in base multiple times an be very gentle with the sponge. So far on the three vertical jobs we've done it gets a C- as for floors I will do more before giving grade. Will do more vertical work with it to give it honest chance also before we give up on it. Next project is my own shower floor where i am going the slap down some mosaics over my existing 50 year old shower and then use the white fusion pro. Then I can monitor stain resistance.
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Old 08-23-2012, 04:50 PM   #34
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I'm sure it's a great DIY product. Probably super for a back splash or small area, just not the kinda stuff I would use in most of the applications I come across. The extended final cure on this and like products is a hurdle I can't seem to find myself crossing.
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Old 08-23-2012, 04:53 PM   #35
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We got a look at the new pookey yesterday and overall I think we were favorably impressed. I'll let John speak for himself, of course.

Nice texture. Doesn't seem to settle and separate in the bucket as do the urethane grouts. No pigments to stain anything. Just scoop it out and use it. Excess can be put back in the bucket for re-use.

Easy enough to pack in the joints, even thin joints in lugged four-and-a-quarters. Manufacturer recommends a soft rubber float, the ones that look like an epoxy float but are all soft rubber. And they seemed to work fine with the grout.

Color is completely consistent and remains that way wherever you put the grout. They (CBP) had sample boards that were 1, 3, and 7 days old and you could find not a hint of color difference in any of'em. They claim that there will also be no color difference between buckets or between years of manufacture going forward. You can't mix it incorrectly because you don't mix it.

We tried in on the white four-and-a-quarters, some glass mosaics, and some travertine mosaics. Easy to apply on all, easy enough to clean up. Excess water in the cleanup is not really a problem, but you can still overwork the joints with too much water and leave them insufficiently filled (but still with perfect color). We noted that on the travertine that the rep and I cleaned, scrubbing pretty agressively to get the film off the surface.

The joints were too washed out to suit JB, so we elected to put some grout release on another section, grout it, and clean much less aggressively, mostly dragging a soaked micro-fiber cloth over the surface. Worked surprisingly well.

Grout did not scratch the transparent glass tiles that I could see.

Got some of the secret ingredient lining the pillowed edges of the white glazed wall tiles, similar to what I've seen with urethane grout, but it came off very easily with some water later.

The stain resistance claim (cleanability, really) seemed true and accurate. We tried some catchup and some mustard on the 7-day-old sample. Rubbed it in, let it set for 15 minutes or so, wiped it off with wet cloth. Catchup cleaned off without a trace. Mustard (the cheap bright yellow stuff) left an obvious stain. Rep dipped his finger in some Aqua Mix cleaner, wiped it on the stain, let it dwell for less than a minute, gave it a couple light strokes with a scrub brush, and wiped the stain away without a trace. I think it'll get good marks in that area.

They are recommending a three-day cure before wet use such as showers, although they seemed confident that it would be quite durable after 24 hours. It's not being recommended for submerged use such as swimming pools, but as the rep pointed out, a gang shower in a commercial application will have a floor as wet as a swimming pool much of its life.

Recommended for exterior use, too. We asked about softening in the south Texas sun in August, and some discussion ensued. At about 160 degrees (I think that was the number) it does begin to soften some, but no permanent harm is done. Don't think I'd use it on my patio down here. The grout can be removed cleanly using a heat gun.

Waaaay too early to evaluate any durability or longevity claims, of course, and we all know situations will come up in the field that were never addressed in the R&D testing, but at a glance I think I like it.

I think it's actually gonna be a best-seller to the DIY industry, too. Impossible to mix it with too much water and almost impossible to use too much water in the cleanup, two of the most common grout problem causes we see. The pros may need to learn a lighter touch when using the stuff, but I don't see that taking more than about fifteen minutes of the first use. No steep learning curve here.

Can't speak to some of the problems Brad (Lump) is reporting, but all I've seen thus far were horizontal test boards. One thing I can comment on is the use of sealers for grout release. I would recommend he try an actual grout release instead. The one form Aqua Mix seemed to work quite well with this grout.
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Old 08-23-2012, 08:10 PM   #36
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question. will the silicone based grout be dissolved by "no rinse enzymatic cleaners" like both spectra lock and star quartz seem to be?

just a thought.

Another question, why won't the kids iPad capitalize letters? Grrrrr.

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Old 08-23-2012, 09:14 PM   #37
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Which grouts are silicone based, Gueuze?
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Old 08-23-2012, 09:20 PM   #38
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Try the fusion on vertical work. We have only used 6 pails so far going to try it on at least dozen more jobs before giving up on it or running with it. My guys hated urethane at first now the love it. Hopefully others give their input from job sites.
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Old 08-24-2012, 09:15 AM   #39
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We didn't do any vertical grouting. I thought about it once but then forgot.
I'll ask the folks at Custom to give a some pics of what they did vertically. I remember when I first used Prism grout on a shower with a tile ceiling I had all sorts of complaints. With Prism, though, the amount of water used in cleanup was critical. Not so with Fusion.

What does matter with Fusion is the amount of rubbing over the joints. As with all grouts, excessive wiping across the joints washes the grout too low. We found this to be the case with 2x2 tumbled travertine. After the first wash the surface looked pretty good, but you could feel grit on the surface. After the second try the joints came out a bit low to my thinking. That's when we went with the grout release, and all was well.

I took some pictures, but the camera I used requires a certain cable to download, and I don't have that with me. I'll post the pics early next week.

My preliminary thoughts on Fusion coincide with CX's. The concept is solid. Everybody wants a grout that goes in easy and cleans up easy -- and one that looks dynamite after it sets. The only minor problems we had were with cleanup (and, of course, we're not sure about vertical applications). In my mind Fusion is a go. The stain resistance and color-fast qualities alone make Fusion grout a keeper.

Let us know if you would like to give it a try, and Custom will get a sample bucket to you.

P.S. I'm sure one of these days CX will give it the Texas Hill Country heat test, but for now we know that 160 degrees will soften Fusion somewhat. It will return to it's original hardness when the heat is removed, though.

P.P.S. The Custom folks are pretty sure that Fusion will eventually be specified for submerged installations. They want to do more testing beforehand, though.

Last edited by John Bridge; 08-24-2012 at 11:38 AM.
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Old 08-24-2012, 10:49 AM   #40
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I want to thank John and CX for joining us in San Antonio. I also want to thank John Cox for letting us use his facility to demonstrate our latest grout.

Fusion Pro is based on the latest Acrylic and Silicone resin technologies. It is somewhat resistant to enzyme cleaners, but like most everything else it will not hold up to the no-rinse enzyme cleaners in areas exposed to heavy grease.

We have not seen issues in verticle instalaltion, but we have not seen everything. I will try to get some pictures or a video of a verticle installation for your review. Perhaps you can give us some real world pointers, that we missed. We do have a video at our website that shows the instalaltion of Fusion Pro and tips for using the grout.

As John said send me a PM and I'll see that you get a sample.
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Old 08-24-2012, 12:00 PM   #41
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Fusion Pro Game

Custom Building Products is currently running an on-line contest.

Contractors can register online at www.fusionprogame.com and are able to answer one question about Fusion Pro per day throughout the promotion (August 14th – November 9th) and have a chance to win a $10, $25 or $50 gift card daily. Also by registering and logging in daily contractors also earn one entry per day for the sweepstakes portion of the promotion. The sweepstakes prizes include a Samsung LCD TV, Samsung home theater system, digital camera and Titleist driver.

If you happen to purchase Fusion Pro during the promotion timeframe (August 14th – November 9th) you can earn an additional 5 entries per Fusion Pro Invoice by providing your invoice details and place of purchase.

So go on-line and play the game.
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Old 08-24-2012, 09:07 PM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CX
Which grouts are silicone based, Gueuze?
Gee, from reading the thread I had got the impression that the Fusion grout was. But I'm just a hack hobbyist.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Taylor
Fusion Pro is based on the latest Acrylic and Silicone resin technologies.

Also-

No "submerged" application? As in a shower floor? ouch. can it be used in a wall corner instead of caulk, sems that it's a grout that stays a bit flexible?

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Old 08-24-2012, 09:12 PM   #43
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normally submerged is a pool,not a shower floor.
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Old 08-24-2012, 09:16 PM   #44
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My understanding is that a shower floor is deemed a "submerged area", but again, wtf do I know?

Ask if your caulk manufacturer warranties their siliconized latex color match caulk at the shower floor/wall transition, and they will usually tell you that.

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Old 08-24-2012, 09:22 PM   #45
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Gueuz...thats my understanding .could be wrong tho .

Just won a 10$ subway card by playing the fusion game.
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