Ceramic Tile Advice Forums - John Bridge Ceramic Tile Tile Monthly Magazine

Welcome to John Bridge / Tile Your World, the friendliest DIY Forum on the Internet


Advertiser Directory
JohnBridge.com Home
Buy John Bridge's Books   Buy a TYW Shirt

Go Back   Ceramic Tile Advice Forums - John Bridge Ceramic Tile > Tile & Stone Forums > Tile Forum/Advice Board

Sponsors


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 05-02-2012, 02:09 PM   #1
Celticsmiles
Registered User
 
Celticsmiles's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: WA
Posts: 8
Tiling a Walk-In Shower

Hello everyone!!! I'm new to tiling, I've laid about 300 sf of 12x12 ceramic tile on a concrete floor and a small glass backsplash. That's the extent of my tiling experience. I've read a lot, but I'm having a hard time finding reliable info on tiling the floors and walls of a walk-in shower. I've built the shower (about 5 ft x 5ft) from the ground up. It's in a basement, with a prepitch, rubber membrane, and a final dry pack pitch on top of that. The walls are perma board (hardi back, but with styrofoam beads, lighter and easier to cut) and I'm going to coat the entire floor and walls with hydroban. That's the easy part, lol.

As for the tiling, I've picked out 12x12 tile for the walls, and matching 2x2 tiles for the floor. I'm going to spend a lot of time laying out the tiling to make sure it lays well on the wall and I think I'm going to use 1/4 in grout. My questions follow:

1) Is this a good grout size for a walk in shower?

2) Do I start with the walls or the floor? Or do I tile the walls except for the bottom row and then tile the floor and the bottom row of the tiles at that time?

3) Because of the pitch, the floor is lower in the middle of the wall then in the corners: Do I cut the tiles with a slight curve, or should I keep them straight and let the grout take care of the rest?

4) On plane changes, such as inside corners, do I use grout or caulk? I've heard both ways, and I'm leaning towards grouting if I choose epoxy grout.

5) We aren't putting a door on the shower because it's soo big, and if any water sprays out, it's hitting a waterproof floor that's over concrete, so I'm going to be tiling the door frame and trimming the door with tile. On plane changes such as the outside corners, caulk or grout, and should I overlap the tiles to create a square corner?

Thank you for any info you can provide!!! Fortunately, if I screw up, my husband I will really be the only ones to ever see it, lol!!!!
__________________
Shannon

Last edited by bbcamp; 05-03-2012 at 04:12 AM.
Celticsmiles is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Old 05-03-2012, 06:17 AM   #2
Houston Remodeler
Registered User
 
Houston Remodeler's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Houston Texas
Posts: 22,280
How did you integrate the waterproof liner into the main floor?
__________________
Paul1

For when DIY isn't such a good idea...
Houston TX area Kitchen & Bath Remodeling


http://CabotAndRowe.com
Houston Remodeler is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 05-04-2012, 01:29 AM   #3
Celticsmiles
Registered User
 
Celticsmiles's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: WA
Posts: 8
bbcamp- Thank you so very much for your reply!! What material would you recommend for leveling the floor out next to the walls. I used the Quick Pitch and because the corners are further away from the drain then the middle of the floor, the plastic guides make for a smaller rise on the wall, then the corners. Hence the dip in the middle of the wall. I'll measure and take pictures tomorrow. I have to put up on last wall of perma board.

The tile is going to wrap around the curb and the door frame, but not come any further into the bathroom, unfortunately I'm buying the semi-cheapest tile from Lowes, (remodeled our whole basement so money is tight) porcelain and I don't think it has color all the way through and there aren't any matching bullnose pieces. If it is colored all the way through, how would I bullnose it? Can I router it myself?

Thank you again for the response. You have alleviated quite a bit of stress!


CabotAndRowe.com- I sandwiched the membrane inbetween the prepitch and the final slope. I've been semi-following markeindustries guidelines and their plastic slope guides. I've also been asking a local shower installer lots of questions.

Thanks for all help.
__________________
Shannon
Celticsmiles is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-04-2012, 01:58 AM   #4
Celticsmiles
Registered User
 
Celticsmiles's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: WA
Posts: 8
P.S. I'm absolutely paranoid about doing a bad/wrong job. I visited the ugly tile posts. Some of the posters can be a bit harsh (although, not wholly unwarranted) Be sad to do all the work and have it end up on the bad tiling thread.

And, thank you bbcamp for numbering my questions, looks much better.
__________________
Shannon
Celticsmiles is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-04-2012, 06:17 AM   #5
Houston Remodeler
Registered User
 
Houston Remodeler's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Houston Texas
Posts: 22,280
1- Where the liner ends in the main floor, how thick is the upper and lower deck mud?

2- How far out of the shower does the liner end?

3- Is it still sloped at that point?

4- Bob meant $1 per inch
__________________
Paul1

For when DIY isn't such a good idea...
Houston TX area Kitchen & Bath Remodeling


http://CabotAndRowe.com
Houston Remodeler is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 05-04-2012, 12:20 PM   #6
Celticsmiles
Registered User
 
Celticsmiles's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: WA
Posts: 8
Pictures!!
Attached Images
     
__________________
Shannon
Celticsmiles is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-04-2012, 12:33 PM   #7
Celticsmiles
Registered User
 
Celticsmiles's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: WA
Posts: 8
bbcamp- LOVE the idea of being able to bullnose the tile myself. I did buy a single tile a while back to make sure I liked the color and it suited our taste, so as far as I can tell, it does have color all the way through. Correct me if I'm wrong (PLEASE!!), It's my understand that porcelain tiles have a protective coating on them, is this a concern if I bullnose them? It's not like the bullnose pieces are going to be sitting in water, and I do know that a tiles and grout aren't waterproof anyways.

CabotAndRow.com- 1) To be honest, I didn't measure this. The plastic sticks that come in the Pre Pitch and the Quick Pitch system rise at a 1/4 per foot. So, if they are accurate, my shortest stick was about two feet long, maybe a little more (my drain isn't perfectly centered in the shower) which gives the initial slop at least a 1/2 in depth at the walls. The sticks for the Quick Pitch add at least two inches to the top mud bed that's on top of the liner.

2) The liner is stapled at the very tippy top on the 2x4 that make up the frame of the shower and it wraps all the way around the curb and is only nailed on the outside.

3)not sure I understand this question. My whole pan is sloped, and even the bench is 1/4 in higher in the back (corian seat going on top of that).

4)THAT IS RIDICULOUS!!! If I can't do it myself, or miter the tile, it'd be worth it to just buy more expensive tile at that price!!!!
__________________
Shannon
Celticsmiles is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-04-2012, 02:50 PM   #8
cx
da Home-builder -- Moderator-at-Large
 
cx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Boerne, Texas
Posts: 72,820
Welcome, Shannon.

1. I, for one, am much opposed to having plastic dividers between sections of the final deck mud in a shower. But if that's what you got, that's what you got.

2. Your pan liner at the curb/jamb juncture does not appear to be at all properly done. Have you any photos of the curb and liner before the curb was mudded? That's a very sensitive area in shower construction and one of the first points of failure.

3. Your bench may be sloped, and that's a good thing, but what is your planned waterproofing method for the bench area?

My opinion; worth price charged.
__________________
CX

Y'ALL NEW VISITORS READ THIS HERE! ......
cx is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 05-04-2012, 04:00 PM   #9
Celticsmiles
Registered User
 
Celticsmiles's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: WA
Posts: 8
CX,

1) I wasn't aware there was any other way to do it. Mostly following markeindustries guidlines with their pitch systems. It's pretty hard to find accurate information. Would you have laid the liner on top, or on the bottom of the mud deck? I hopefully won't be doing one of these again anytime soon, but in case, the info is appreciated.

2) I don't have any pictures of the pan liner before I set the curb on . Do you have a picture of what it's supposed to look like? I wrapped the liner over the curb.

3) I just bought a big bucket of HydroBan. I was finish the bench with perma board and then paint the walls with hydroban. And I mean the whole wall. I talked to my local hydroban guy and he still thinks I should coat the floor too. I know bbcamp said not to, so I'm more inclined not to, but what are your thoughts on this.

Thanks
__________________
Shannon
Celticsmiles is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-04-2012, 04:14 PM   #10
cx
da Home-builder -- Moderator-at-Large
 
cx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Boerne, Texas
Posts: 72,820
1. I trust you followed the manufacturer's guidelines in using those plastic sticks, Shannon, and if they work for you on a pre-slope, that's fine. I'm opposed to using such a system in the final mud bed at all.

For the final mud bed you have already established your slope and need only make a mud bed of a consistent thickness of a minimum of 1 1/2" over that. This is not a particularly difficult thing for even a first-timer to learn to do without leaving plastic strips in his mud bed to show the tile surface the best place to crack, eh?

I just don't like the idea at all.

2. Lotsa photos of the proper treatment of that area on here. I'm sorry I can't help you look for some, but I'm tethered to a cell phone for Internet connection and just can't do much searching. Hopefully, someone else will.

3. You have already made a shower pan. Painting a waterproofing membrane over it is a very poor plan, far as I'm concerned. One is enough, two is too many. It's a good system for waterproofing the bench, though.
__________________
CX

Y'ALL NEW VISITORS READ THIS HERE! ......
cx is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 05-04-2012, 04:18 PM   #11
Houston Remodeler
Registered User
 
Houston Remodeler's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Houston Texas
Posts: 22,280
What CX axed
Attached Images
 
__________________
Paul1

For when DIY isn't such a good idea...
Houston TX area Kitchen & Bath Remodeling


http://CabotAndRowe.com
Houston Remodeler is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 05-04-2012, 04:33 PM   #12
Celticsmiles
Registered User
 
Celticsmiles's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: WA
Posts: 8
CX,
1) I worried about that too. Would you recommend ripping out the top mud bed and the liner?

2) You are amazing at multitasking!! Thanks for taking the time to respond.i did cut the liner right at the door, as CabotAndRowe.com has circled. I couldn't see any other way of getting the liner to go over the curb without the liner bunching up. I've heard bunching will kick the cement board out and crack tile. Plus I was going to be water proofing, so yes, I made that choice. If I do need to redo the liner and top bed, at least I'm at a good point to do so. The other circle is where the square liner's corner hit the bench, so I choose to run it up the face of the bench and only cut it at the very top.

3) Since both you and bbcamp concur, I won't coat the floor.
__________________
Shannon
Celticsmiles is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-04-2012, 05:42 PM   #13
Houston Remodeler
Registered User
 
Houston Remodeler's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Houston Texas
Posts: 22,280
Shannon,

3- You can see there are inherant problems when trying to waterproof a bench when using a liner. The best way to solve the problem in my book is to bring the liner up the wall behind the bench then build the bench atop the liner, built from masonry. The other choice is to bring the liner up the front of the bench, then over lap the liner with tar paper, cover with metal lathe (not nailed to anything) then cover the whole area with ceement. (tricky for skilled folks) Another choice is to bring the liner up in front of the bench, then cover everything in CBU nailed to the wood frame and cover that with a surface membrane.

Combine this with;

1- They make 'dam corners' as pictured below.

Those two equal

Yes, you are taking out everything down to the liner. Since you are there, consider a surface applied membrane such as Hydroban or Kerdi.
__________________
Paul1

For when DIY isn't such a good idea...
Houston TX area Kitchen & Bath Remodeling


http://CabotAndRowe.com
Houston Remodeler is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 05-04-2012, 10:15 PM   #14
Celticsmiles
Registered User
 
Celticsmiles's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: WA
Posts: 8
Cabot,
I'm not sure I understand where you are going with your post. I wasn't trying to waterproof the bench, just yet. The entire bench is getting coated with hydroban (picked it up today) after I install cement backer on it. I chose to run the liner up the front of the bench as extra security, but it wasn't intended to cover the whole bench. All corners will be reinforced with the included fabric. I'm not tiling the top of the bench, I have a corian piece cut to put on top.

What would you change about my floor, after I rip out the top mud bed and liner?

Thanks
__________________
Shannon
Celticsmiles is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-05-2012, 06:36 AM   #15
Houston Remodeler
Registered User
 
Houston Remodeler's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Houston Texas
Posts: 22,280
Shannon,

By using Hydroban over cbu, you are doing the 3rd of the 3 mthods I listed so that is good.

The liner still needs to be fixed at the curb. If you are lucky, and can get the liner at the curb very clean again, the old liner can stay after you rip out the top layer of ceement and you buy two of these to glue in at the corners.
Attached Images
 
__________________
Paul1

For when DIY isn't such a good idea...
Houston TX area Kitchen & Bath Remodeling


http://CabotAndRowe.com
Houston Remodeler is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply

Buy John's New Book!   Tile Your World Online Store   Contractors Direct Tile Tool Store   Stonetooling.com   Tile-Assn.com


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Walk in shower tiling avi Tile Forum/Advice Board 12 09-03-2011 10:38 PM
walk-in shower tiling questions just_learning Tile Forum/Advice Board 27 02-07-2010 03:12 PM
Re-tiling existing Master Bath Walk in Shower. John K. Tile Forum/Advice Board 4 01-18-2009 07:31 AM
tiling a outside walk c and j Professionals' Hangout 12 03-24-2006 03:32 AM
tiling a concrete driveway and walk zman Tile Forum/Advice Board 2 02-22-2005 06:16 AM


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 03:32 PM.


Sponsors

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright 2009 John Bridge & Associates, LLC