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Old 12-22-2017, 12:59 AM   #16
oldschoolg
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Well my wife says if i raise the floor i have to raise the windows as well - one of those privacy things!

So a tension to stay the same on floor level and not mess up the hardiplank siding outside on both walls + a bigger project in the winter.

Likely i'll just build it as it is - since we are both tall - its an issue wrt window height.

Question: If i use a hot mop pan (that sticks to the stem walls) then feathers to a thin 1/8" as it comes up 6" on the studs/blocking, can the Durock stop at the bottom plate rather than extend all the way down? Then then float the float the wall down with mesh right on top of the hot mop on to the dry pack on top of the pan? IRRC this is what was done previously - then i wouldn't have to fir out (not a perfect solution) and wouldn't have to chip the stem wall.

WRT the step buildup - is it better to put that mass under the hot mop pan - so that it does not become a big porous water magnet that will leach to the remainder of dry pack on top of the pan? On the plus side - building on top doesn't require me to commit dimensions for the step at this point - and can be changed. What if i paint it with red sealer (forgot the brand)?
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Old 12-22-2017, 09:26 AM   #17
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Why not look into some sort of obscured glass for that window, Paul. No need to move it and could still raise the floor if you want. I would go to pretty great lengths to avoid that step in the shower if at all possible.

I would recommend you consider something other than hot-mop for that shower receptor. One of the sheet-type direct bonded waterproofing membranes would be ideal in that application. My choice would be USG's Durock Shower Membrane. Fur out the wall or chip out the concrete, then install your wallboard and secure the bottoms by constructing your sloped mud bed against them.

If you still want the step in there you could do it either before or after waterproofing the shower receptor. I'd want to build it before so the waterproofing membrane would cover the step, too.

My opinion; worth price charged.
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Old 12-22-2017, 09:54 AM   #18
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I used window tint that looks like frosted glass in our bathroom. There's also rice paper and other styles which will completely obscure the view.
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Old 12-22-2017, 06:27 PM   #19
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Looking at your shower pic, I would add framing on each jamb so it's 90 degrees off the curb. Right now you have a 45 or so. I can't see a door working well on that angle.
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Old 12-23-2017, 10:51 PM   #20
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Looking at your shower pic, I would add framing on each jamb so it's 90 degrees off the curb. Right now you have a 45 or so. I can't see a door working well on that angle.
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Original design was "doorless". Seemed to work ok from a water spash perspective. Shower floor is 5'x5' so keeps most of the splatter in if i remember right.
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Old 12-23-2017, 11:25 PM   #21
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Just bringing it to your attention ahead of time. I'm not saying a door couldn't be installed but if anyone in the future ever wanted to add a door, that's an odd angle to hinge it to. The door company would probably have to add an extra metal piece on each side to get the hinge squared up to the curb.
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Old 01-13-2018, 01:55 PM   #22
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After much consderation - here is my current plan.

So plan is to install liner, bond it to the concrete and 3" up wall, then float the the wall down to the floor - bonding it to the liner. and leave the floor at its current elevation (a 5" single step).

Rational:
- Abort hot mop (i think that is not a good route to go for reliability after much much reading and the reason i'm doing this to begin with) and use a liner system.
- Liner system, either Oatey 40 mill pvc liner or Nobleseal - TS (fibers to bond to stem wall. I'm just not so keen on the complete kits - and they don't fit a 6'x6' shower.
-I would prefere to use PVC liner (1/3 cost and readily available) but may not bond well to a floated wall - (issue or not an issue?). Noble seal with fibers on both sides should be easy to bond (with modified thinset according to Noble) but $14 lineal foot iws pricey.
-To bond PVC to the concrete wall - Oatey says must use Liquid nails 915 - will try it and get a feel for it on sample.

-The footing where it is inside of the wall, i will taper it down so it is not an abrubt transition but i don't see making it planer with the wall - not going to happen. The idea here is so the membrane doesn't have airspace behind it at the transition. I could fir out those two walls about .75" but it will still need to be floated - will not be planer with the footing.
-The Durock cement board will stop at the bottom plate otherwise it will not be planer and will bow inward with the footing probably an inch in some places by the time it gets to the floor.

I'm going to try a section of this and see if I can get confidence in what i'm doing first.

Thx for the help.
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Old 01-13-2018, 07:46 PM   #23
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The widest PVC pan liner I've seen is 6 ft. I wouldn't use a pan liner unless I could get it to come up to the framing. Coming up 3 inches from the floor isn't enough.

Also, you mentioned floating the walls and bonding it to the liner. Not sure how you plan to do this.

The walls need to be flat, having the walls taper the bottom 12 inches wouldn't be an option.

I would get the walls flat and plumb and use a surface membrane over the whole shower.
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Old 01-15-2018, 01:11 PM   #24
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Davy,

I created these sketches to illustrate what i tried to write.

Option 1 and/or Option 2 apply to the two outer walls (footing inboard of wall studs)
Option 3 applies to the two inner walls (footing is flush with the wall studs)

I'm leaning towards option 1 but as you mentioned - why not just take the membrane all the way up (option 2) which i could do and not have much at all to do on tapering the footing or firing the wall out (even if i fir the wall out im not sure its going to be a perfect planer surface - would end up with a smear on CBU to planerize).

I should also add that floor level is at the top of the footing shown which will be 10" up from the final deck mud on top of the liner.

Thx,

Paul
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Old 01-15-2018, 10:18 PM   #25
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Okay, I now see what you were explaining. If you are planning to float (mud) the walls, you don't need the cement board, just apply a scratch coat of mud to build out the wall in place of the CBU. And, no need to worry about anything being in plane, the mud will be in plane when it's done.

What brand of membrane do you show in your drawing?
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Old 01-16-2018, 12:25 AM   #26
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Still deciding:

1. I would like to use Oatey PVC, but it may not be best choice for bonding the wall mud to.

2. Nobleseal TS: CPE with fibers - it bonds with modified thinset http://www.noblecompanyonlinestore.c...leseal-ts.aspx

3. I'm open to other membrane options if there is a better one and i can get it easily.

So w/o the CBU, do i just nail lath on the wall then float out with mud? I will look this up - i ordered John Bridge's "Ceramic Tile Setting" and Michael Byrnes "Setting Tile".

I'm determined to figure this out.

thx.

Paul
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Old 01-16-2018, 02:12 AM   #27
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I'd have to say after studying this "way more than i should" if i was starting from scratch i would go with the membrane on top of drypack and membrane up the walls as in Kerdi-type system.

I suppose that could almost be possible if i changed the drain to a Kerdi, floated the walls, then applied the Noble seal - TS to the pan up the wall 12 inch, then do the walls.

But at this point if i can make the Nobleseal-TS work for the pan (conventional) then i think it will work:

One perspective from John B. from an "OLD THREAD!": http://www.johnbridge.com/vbulletin/...?t=9251&page=4

"There is a definite advantage in waterproofing the suface of the floor mud bed as opposed to using a liner underneath it, but I don't think building a mud shower and then waterproofing the entire thing is cost efficient. Using the one-coat mud method it is possible to install the Kerdi-drain, mud the floor and cover it with Kerdi going up the walls about eight inches. You can then install the wall moisture barrier and lath, letting it droop down over the liner in the usual manner and mud the walls. I've never done it this way, but I wouldn't hesitate doing so if I had to have mud walls for some reason.

I honestly think, though, that if you want a mud shower there is nothing wrong with the conventional method. If the PVC or CPE liner is installed properly into the clamping drain, and the shower is maintained properly, you won't have any problems with mold, etc."
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Old 01-16-2018, 05:17 PM   #28
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It won't hurt anything but the membrane doesn't have to be bonded to the 12 inch vertical section of concrete. I would want the pan liner membrane to come up that high and fastened to the studs and then the wall moisture barrier can overlap it.

Are you planning on gluing pieces of membrane together to make it large enough? I'm not a big fan of doing that although I have done it a time or two. In my opinion, the surface membranes system is looking best for this application.

For a mud wall, felt paper then lath is stapled to the studs. Then the scratch coat would be applied over the lath. The lath would hang free over the concrete section and the scratch coat applied there too. I lean bricks against the scratch coat at the bottom to hold it tight to the pan and concrete.
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