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Old 07-07-2017, 02:38 PM   #1
jefftile42
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Bathroom Remodel

Hello all,

I am remodeling a small bathroom. It previously had a mudbed on the floor as well as in the shower walls and ceramic tile. The rest of the walls have drywall with ceramic tiles. I checked the deflecto and I am good for ceramic. I purchased 4x12 rectified porcelain for the walls and 12x24 rectified porcelain for the floor. I am also planning to get some glass tile for the niche and as a border around the walls. For grout I am hoping to use Spectralock Pro Premium since its a bathroom. I have previously used Permacolor which I also like but thought it might help using epoxy for the bathroom. I screwed down my existing 3/4" T&G subfloor and put a 1/2" layer of exterior BC plywood on top of it screwed to the subfloor with subfloor screws. I am planning to install Durock 1/2" around the tub and regular 1/2" drywall for the rest of the bathroom and tile on all walls to the ceiling.

The tub I purchased is a drop in tub with a factory installed tiling flange on three sides. The instructions call for caulking the seam between the tiling flange and the tub deck. I used an acrylic urethane caulk recommended by GE. They said the silicone would not stick well to the acrylic tub.

I have a bunch of questions, here is a start:

1) I have read a lot of posts about how to waterproof tub walls but there is one thing I am still debating about. I spoke with Durock and they recommended I caulk between the tub and the cement board before I water proof it. I have read posts here where some pros like to do that and some don't (I'm looking at you cx). The reason I would like to caulk under the cement board is because of my tiling flange. It has a bead of caulk which I wouldn't really want to be exposed to wettings over the years and get moldy (maybe I am being too careful). I figured if I use the acrylic urethane caulk under the durock, I can apply redgard to the entire wall and over the acrylic urethane to have one solid waterproofing layer and the caulk wouldn't be touched by the water. What are your thoughts on this? Please see the picture to see the tiling flange.

2) Right now I have a 3.5 gallon tub of redgard and some noble cis membrane at my disposal. My initial thought is to waterproof the shower with the redgard. I also want to hit up the lower half of the drywall with redgard as cheap insurance for any incidental wettings that might happen (I have kids). Since I have the product and the bathroom is small, I was thinking to use the redgard on the floor as well and just have a nice water proof layer between the lower halves of the walls like around the sink and the floor. I would caulk around the plywood perimeter and then use some fiberglass mesh (like the Laticrete mesh) between the drywall and the plywood and apply the redgard to the whole floor and then tile on it. I think this would be pretty good insurance and I already have the product (except I'll have to buy the mesh). What do you guys think about it?

3) I want to do a shower niche. The tiles I bought do not have finished edges. I have seen pictures of people using Schulter edge trim for their niche. I like the look of it but I was thinking this would be a nice entry point for water to get behind the tile when compared to something like using some marble shelves or something along those lines which would let the water flow in front of the tiles. Do you think it would be better to use some bull nose tile or marble shelves or would the edge trim be ok?

Thanks all.
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Old 07-07-2017, 02:39 PM   #2
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Tub flange
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Old 07-07-2017, 03:50 PM   #3
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Welcome to the forum, Jeff.

1. From personal experience, I can tell you that a simple bead of silicone is not adequate to seal the joint between the cement board and tiling flange. I would recommend you use a strip of membrane at least 4" wide that is secured to the cement board and siliconed to the face of the tiling flange to bridge that gap.

2. I would use the Redgard to waterproof the shower. Start with a primer coat of four parts water to one part Redgard, then follow up with two full-strength coats at the proper thickness. If you have any left over, (and you should), you can use it wherever you please in the bathroom for moisture management.

3. No matter what you use, water will infiltrate it. The key is to have the wall behind it waterproofed adequately so that it doesn't get wet underneath.
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Old 07-07-2017, 03:54 PM   #4
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3) If you are waterproofed properly, a little water getting behind the tile is no big deal. How would schluter trim be an entry point for water? It usually has 1 or 2 "legs" that go underneath the tile and gets thinsetted in place, and then grouted just like the tile. It is no more of an entry point for water than the rest of your tile installation. If there is a matching bullnose tile, some people prefer that look, others prefer the schluter trim look.

For the bottom shelf, I had the company who made my quartz countertop use some of the sink cut out and make me a shelf. They did it for $15 change (basically set up time to add the dimensions I provided into the CNC machine) I was already paying for the quartz. The I installed that first and tiled around it. Me and the Mrs think it looks really nice. The choice is all yours.
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Old 07-07-2017, 04:40 PM   #5
jefftile42
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Kman,

What kind of membrane do you suggest for the gap between the cement board and the tiling flange? Also, how would I secure it to the cement board?

For #2, do you think my idea to fiberglass mesh the joints between the plywood floor and the drywall/redgard the floor will work for tiling the floor and have a water resistant barrier?

Thanks.
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Old 07-07-2017, 08:53 PM   #6
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1. Kerdi band, USG band, ardex sk175 just about any waterproof band or corresponding fabric if you are going with a roll on waterproofing. They get secured with thinset in most cases.

2.Are you planning to install tile straight onto the plywood?
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Old 07-08-2017, 10:35 AM   #7
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1. I am having trouble understanding this. I am putting the cement board in front of the tiling flange close to the tub. I am not putting the cement board above the tiling flange. I want to know what to do about that small gap between the cement board and the tub deck. Are you saying I need to seal that 1/4"-3/8" gap between the cement board and the tub deck with a membrane?

2) I was asking if I could apply redgard to the plywood and then tile over the redgard, this way I could make a water resistant barrier on the floor/corners for incidental wettings. I also have noble cis membrane which I can use, not sure if redgard sticks to it for waterproofing the edges.
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Old 07-08-2017, 10:55 AM   #8
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1. No. Best thing you can do with that gap is nothing at all.

2. If you'll read the technical data sheet for RedGard you'll find plywood listed as a suitable substrate for interior dry areas only. It would be a crack isolation product in your application, but not a waterproofing membrane.

The RedGard with adhere to the Noble CIS just fine, but you'll not find that application listed for either product. In your proposed application I would turn the Noble membrane up against the tub or walls or whatever and bond it with the Noblesealant 150 or similar.

My opinion; worth price charged.
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Old 07-08-2017, 12:13 PM   #9
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cx, how do you feel about the caulk joint at the factory installed tub flange (pic attached in earlier post). Could that get moldy in the future? Should I seal that caulk joint with redgard?
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Old 07-08-2017, 01:36 PM   #10
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I can't tell what you might be showing in your photo in post #2.

Mold can result anywhere there is the correct moisture content and food for the mold. Eliminate either and the mold cannot survive there.

My opinion; worth price charged.
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Old 07-09-2017, 03:13 PM   #11
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Hi Jeff.

Responding to your PM here so others may learn from it as well. Things like Noblebond EXT, caulk, epoxy, etc... typically have shelf lives of a year. After that, you're on your own. One of the guys here may have info on Noblebond EXT specifically.

Your best bet is to contact Noble directly and ask them.

http://noblecompany.com/contact/

Noble Company
Physical address:
7300 Enterprise Drive
Spring Lake, MI 49456

Mailing address:
P.O. Box 350
Grand Haven, MI USA 49417-0350

Phone: 231-799-8000
Toll Free: 800-878-5788
Fax: 231-799-8850

Our customer service team is available to assist you Monday through Friday, 8am - 5pm, Eastern time
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Old 07-11-2017, 10:48 PM   #12
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I am using 12x24 rectified porcelain tile for the floor and 4x12s for the walls. I know I need to use a 1/3 or 1/4 offset for the floor. For 4x12 tiles do you pros usually end up doing an offset as well? I sent the manufacturer an email but haven't heard back if the 4x12 needs an offset. I am going to try to compare the tiles in the light to see if I can determine it myself but was wondering what your experience was with 4x12s. Thanks!
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Old 07-13-2017, 05:04 PM   #13
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Dana,

For a small 25ish square foot floor, would you just use Versabond to bond the noble cis or spend $65 on the NobleEXT? The subfloor is one lay 3/4" tongue and groove with 1/2" plywood on top.
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Old 07-14-2017, 10:56 PM   #14
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Can anyone chime in on the staggering and grout joints? The tile manufacturer has not been responding to me.

I am using 12x24 rectified porcelain tile for the floor and 4x12s for the walls. I know I need to use a 1/3 or 1/4 offset for the floor. For 4x12 tiles do you pros usually end up doing an offset as well? I put a couple of the 4x12s on a piece of plywood and noticed about a 1/32" difference between the tile edges. I'd also like to know if there is a general rule of thumb for 4x12" and 12x24" rectified porcelain.

The tilestore owner said that the 12x24 has to be staggered but the 4x12s he could install at 50% offset. He also suggested 1/8" minimum grout joint for the 4x12" and 3/16" minimum for the 12"x24". But I want to make sure that is correct before I do it. I do not believe the tile store owner has ever actually seen the tiles because it was special ordered and delivered straight to me.

Thanks.
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Old 07-15-2017, 09:04 AM   #15
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Put the 4x12s face to face and pinch one end, if the other end opens up the have a bow that will happen. If they are bowed bad 50% offset will be a challenge. But ultimately it will be up to you. 1/8" grout joints would be a safe size.

12x24 most likely needs to done with no more than 33% offset and grout line size is determined by size consistency. 3x the difference in size of the tile is the general rule of thumb. Ex: difference between largest and smallest tile is 1/16" so 3/16" would be a good choice. Honestly I try to stay around 1/8" unless the tiles are sized very poorly.
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