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Old 02-02-2016, 06:02 PM   #16
Tool Guy - Kg
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I agree with Paul's suggestion.

And most definitely, the buck stops with the person/business you paid...no matter how many other folks were involved.

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Old 02-02-2016, 06:49 PM   #17
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You guys are tremendously helpful. Thank you. I will update as we see where this is going.
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Old 02-04-2016, 09:17 AM   #18
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Update, URGENT question

Urgent question:

The installer doesn't think he needs to raise the base of the drain for the preslope. He wants to run the preslope to zero at the drain. What are the repercussions of doing this?

I know most of you are at work. If there is anyone who can answer this quickly, I would be most grateful.
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Old 02-04-2016, 10:18 AM   #19
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The tile guy didn't want to wait and we didn't want him to proceed without confirmation that it would be ok. They are refusing to raise the drain. So we told him to stop work and we would see if we can find someone to come make sure the drain is installed correctly. I am afraid though that if we hire a plumber to come install the drain and then the tile company does the rest of the work, no one will want to take responsibility for the job if it leaks again.
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Old 02-04-2016, 10:20 AM   #20
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I am not a pro, but if the drain is set to be level with the pre slope mortar bed then when the actual mortar bed and tile are installed above that the drain will be +/-1" or so below the level of the shower floor. You want the drain at the level of the shower floor.
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Old 02-04-2016, 10:48 AM   #21
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After further comparing our shower with the instructions for the Oatey liner, the hole in the subfloor is supposed to be 4 3/4". The hole in our subfloor is 7". The drain is just set down in the hole and the gap around it is filled in with caulk. So it would appear that the subfloor needs to be replaced and the whole drain needs to be redone.
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Old 02-04-2016, 10:51 AM   #22
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If, as your pictures show the drain flange, I would think it would be possible to "feather" the pre-slope down to the lip of the floor flange, install the liner and then set the final mud bed atop of that.

The screw in assembly, when installed, should have deep enough threads for it to sit slightly above the final mud bed, allowing the tiles to be flush with it.

Generally, the mud bed should be at least 3/4" deep, at the drain, extending out at a rate of at least 1/4" per foot to the corners of the shower. If it can meet these criteria, as was said before, in most areas, you need to give them the opportunity to fix this...one time. After that, see ya' in Court.

Yes, you may have to re-build the shower after all...but you've got nothing to lose by giving them a shot at it. I still think their work is sucky. Take plenty of pics.


Just missed your post. If it's truly "down" in the hole...you could well be correct.
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Old 02-04-2016, 10:55 AM   #23
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Tile industry standards require that the top mud bed in that type shower receptor construction be a minimum of 1 1/2 inches thick.

While there are no tile industry standards for a pre-slope (part of the plumbing code), I would not want any mud bed thinner than 3/4" over any plywood subfloor and especially not any single layer plywood subfloor.

My opinion; worth price charged.
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Old 02-04-2016, 11:23 AM   #24
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Ok, so it actually looks like there are 2 layers of plywood. The flange is sitting down inside the top layer of plywood, so that it is inset. Here is a picture. What needs to happen for this to be done correctly?
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Old 02-04-2016, 01:47 PM   #25
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In addition to the drain picture above, would you guys also be so kind as to review these pictures of the curb area after the demo? Is all this as it should be?
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Old 02-04-2016, 04:25 PM   #26
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1- If he is using a vinyl liner, the studs should be notched at the bottom to allow for the thickness of the liner (so the cement board doesn't bulge out at the bottom)

2-plus there should be blocking between the same studs at the bottom so the liner doesn't bulge out between the studs.

3- Preslope had been covered but I'll add - the proper layers above the plywood : layer of plastic > metal mesh stapled to the floor > pounded in layer of drypack creating the slope

4- The perimeter of the pre-slope should be fairly level. It doesn't need to be perfect, but ALL water should leave the liner and go down the drain.

5- Perform a flood test before installing the top layer of drypack

Watch this video for the cliff notes version. AT the 5:40 you'll see the flood test
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Old 02-04-2016, 07:04 PM   #27
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What Paul said.

Apparently they are planning to install the preslope right on the plywood. I want tar paper (or poly) and lath. 3/4 of mud at the drain gives you enough mud to cover the lath. You don't want the lath poking on the bottom side of the liner, especially the jagged lath that's cut around the drain. Use an inside pipe cutter and cut the drain off. Add an extension on the riser pipe and glue a new drain on. You want the bottom flange 3/4 above the plywood.

I would also add another 2x4 to the top of the curb.
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Old 02-04-2016, 08:11 PM   #28
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Thank you for all the suggestions. Our installer quit today when we told him we didn't want the drain installed that way and he told the owner of the company that he isn't coming back. Are any of these things covered by the building code? If they do what they want to do and put in a preslope over the bare subfloor and the liner with everything the way it is in the pictures, what are the ramifications? Its really hard to insist on things being done a certain way when we don't know what we are talking about.
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Old 02-04-2016, 08:28 PM   #29
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Kendra,

I feel for you. You are doing the right thing, but it's hard to have conviction when you are just repeating something that someone else said, even if you believe it to be true.

You might send your tile contractors a link to this thread and have them discuss their plan directly with the experts here. They probably won't take you up on that offer, but that in itself is a bit of a victory (and some ground to stand on) for you. And be assured, if they are "man enough" to come discuss the situation here, they will be dealing with bona fide experts in the field. You've found the best resource you could hope to find. Don't back down - it won't magically get better.
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Old 02-04-2016, 08:53 PM   #30
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Kendra, to answer your question regarding building codes you should contact your local building department to ask them their rules. Further, get in touch with the Georgia Consumer Protection Unit (I found it online and this is their website: http://ocp.ga.gov/consumer-topics/building-contractors).

Ask them what their rules are regarding contracts, proper plumbing and tiling methods, etc. Also, they have a way that you can check a contractor's license, so you can see what the company that is doing the tiling is licensed and bonded for. As someone else mentioned, your contract exists with whichever party you paid and they have a responsibility to make this right.

I came to this site in April 2015 and I continue to read threads daily, and what I've discovered is that the experts on this site are exactly that. They have a level of expertise and commitment that you don't see everyday. In San Francisco, any tiler worth his salt has a 4+ month backlog. We have several friends who experienced problems with tiling jobs in the last year. If you have a second bathroom in your home take your time in finding the right person to redo your shower. You may even find a local tiler through this site.

What I am trying to say is that you should continue to stand by your guns and advocate for yourself, which it sounds as if you've done a great job of so far.

Good luck.
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