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Old 04-13-2016, 03:15 PM   #46
TileDisciple
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Update

Good afternoon,

A big thank you to all the folks on this forum who have given me direction in this project Thus far, I've removed the old subfloor; sistered the joists under the bathroom - reinforced with screws and bolts; relocated the shower drain rough-in plumbing, and replaced the rough-in plumbing for the toilet drain; installed the rough-in plumbing for the shower; did some work on the heating duct; installed new drywall; and installed new Advectec 1 1/8" tongue and groove subfloor panels. So far so good I had to sand the joists in a few places, and add a few shims to get it level and flat - other than being able to get 1/32" shim under the level in a few places Although, I had to do some of these things more than once to get it right. The most frustrating part of this project, is having to proceed at a snail's pace because I keep coming up with new questions.

I also want to thank Schluter, for the training sessions in Indianapolis, and for their prompt responses to my many questions; TCNA, for the informative handbook; John Bridge, Tile Bathroom Remodel, Parts 1 and 2; Sal DiBlasi, for his You Tube videos, and many responses to my questions; Roger, the Floor Elf, for his informative books, and website; the plumbing forum http://www.plbg.com/ and finally the diy chatroom http://www.diychatroom.com/.

So I've decided that I want to try to center the niche in the east wall of the shower stall. I want to cut this stud so I can fit the niche in. I also want to put a stud to the left, and a stud to the right of this stud to support wall, and to support the niche on both sides. The niche will be two tiles high, and one tile wide. Do you see any problems with my plan?
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Old 04-13-2016, 03:19 PM   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe
So I've decided that I want to try to center the niche in the east wall of the shower stall.
Is the wall load bearing?

Cheers, Wayne
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Old 04-14-2016, 05:52 PM   #48
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Originally Posted by Wayne
Is the wall load bearing?
Hey Wayne ,

I'm not sure, that's why I included the photos. Doe's it matter if I'm going to install two more 2x4's, one on each side?

Thanks,
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Old 04-14-2016, 06:30 PM   #49
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To determine whether the wall is load bearing, you need to know what is on top of the wall. So pictures of the room aren't enough.

If your plan is to remove one stud and replace it with two full length studs no more than 16" o.c. apart, then that's fine, even if the wall is load bearing. This assumes the double top plate is in good condition and properly nailed.

Cheers, Wayne
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Old 04-15-2016, 10:19 AM   #50
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Quote:
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To determine whether the wall is load bearing, you need to know what is on top of the wall. So pictures of the room aren't enough.

If your plan is to remove one stud and replace it with two full length studs no more than 16" o.c. apart, then that's fine, even if the wall is load bearing. This assumes the double top plate is in good condition and properly nailed.
Wayne, I want to know if it's load bearing. The attic is above the bathroom. What am I looking for?

What do you mean by properly nailed? I'm using screws. If I screw the studs into the top and bottom plate, will that work?

Thanks
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Old 04-15-2016, 11:14 AM   #51
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Wayne, I want to know if it's load bearing. The attic is above the bathroom. What am I looking for?
It's a little complicated, so one option is just to treat it as load bearing. If your niche is only going to be 12" in finished width, and you put one full length stud on each side of your niche, that will be fine for a load bearing wall. Those studs will end up about 16" o.c., and with a double top plate the studs don't need to line up exactly with the load above.

As to whether the wall is load bearing, you have to ask the question "if this wall were gone, would any of the remaining framing now be unsupported or overspanned?" So first you check whether there are any walls or joists directly above the wall in question. If not, then it's not load bearing. If there's a wall on top, then figure out whether that wall is load bearing.

If there are joists on top of the wall in question, and they end on either side of the wall, then the wall is load bearing. If the joists continue across the wall to another supporting wall, now you have figure out if removing your wall will make the joists overspanned. Which is a story for another post.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe
What do you mean by properly nailed? I'm using screws. If I screw the studs into the top and bottom plate, will that work?
Screws are fine for non-structural framing, but most screws aren't a good idea for structural framing. An equivalent sized nail will be stronger and more ductile.

So if the wall is load bearing or you want to treat it as such, install your new studs with 3 8d toe nails each into the top and bottom plates. You can still predrill your holes, which will make hammering easier if you aren't very experienced. Eg. if you are using full sized 8d common nails (2.5" x 0.131"), then you could drill a 3/32" pilot hole.

As for the double top plate, my concern is mostly that your photos don't show what it does outside the shower. The double top plate is supposed to be nailed 24" o.c. with 10d nails to tie the two plates together. I doubt it would be easy to verify that, so I'd be inclined to add 2-3 nails through the lower face of the lower top plate as insurance. Ideally 10d nails, but 8d would be OK since it is just insurance.

If you really dislike the idea of using nails, there are structural screws available. E.g. you could use Simpson's SDWS FRAMING Screws.

I also suggest using only kiln dried lumber for remodel framing.

Cheers, Wayne
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Old 04-27-2016, 03:02 PM   #52
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Fastening studs structural framing

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So if the wall is load bearing or you want to treat it as such, install your new studs with 3 8d toe nails each into the top and bottom plates.
Thanks Wayne

Just to confirm, you're saying drive nails at an angle through the top and bottom of the studs, and into the top and bottom plates, correct?
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Old 04-27-2016, 03:28 PM   #53
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If that wall is indeed load bearing I think ideally want a header in there, but it rather depends on where the framing is above and, possibly below, that stud.

You mentioned that the attic is above. Do you know how the attic is framed? Does it use trusses? Is the wall in your picture an interior wall (looks like it)?
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Old 04-27-2016, 03:31 PM   #54
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Smile Grout and caulk

Good afternoon ,

My tile is 11 13/16" even though the invoice says 12". I'll check some other tiles to see if there is any variation in the size of the tile. I'm thinking of using a 3/16" grout line to make the finished size 12". Does that make sense?

Should I put a grout joint or caulk between the mud pan floor and the very first tile in the shower stall? What about between the perpendicular walls in the shower stall?

Thanks very much,
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Old 04-27-2016, 03:48 PM   #55
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Fastening studs structural framing

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Originally Posted by ss3964spd
If that wall is indeed load bearing I think ideally want a header in there, but it rather depends on where the framing is above and, possibly below, that stud.

You mentioned that the attic is above. Do you know how the attic is framed? Does it use trusses? Is the wall in your picture an interior wall (looks like it)?
It is an interior wall. I'll post a couple of pictures of the attic, and crawlspace under the wall.

Thanks much,
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Old 04-27-2016, 04:08 PM   #56
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If that wall is indeed load bearing I think ideally want a header in there,
Hi Dan,

My understanding is that the new spacing of full length studs will be still be 16" o.c. or less. In which case, with a double top plate, there is no need to have a header. The double top plate is adequate to span 14.5", so the studs don't have to line up with the joists or studs above.

For the OP's question today, try googling "toe nail carpentry" and look at the images results, too. You have the basic idea, but it can a little tricky when first learning.

Cheers, Wayne
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Old 04-27-2016, 04:17 PM   #57
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Probably correct, Wayne. But if there was a truss on that wall directly above that stud, and if I had space for it, I'd use a header just for PoM.

Probably moot, though, since TD replied that its an interior wall, with an attic above.
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Old 04-29-2016, 03:45 PM   #58
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Fastening studs structural framing

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Probably correct, Wayne. But if there was a truss on that wall directly above that stud, and if I had space for it, I'd use a header just for PoM.
Dan and Wayne,

Here are some photos of the attic, and the crawlspace above and below the east shower stall wall. For clarity, the east shower stall wall is 4 1/2 feet east of the vent pipe, and runs 32 inches north of it. For the attic photo, count 3 joists to the left, and from that third joist over to the stud behind the pvc pipe.

For the crawlspace, the east shower stall wall spans the area directly above the three joists that are bolted together.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wayne
My understanding is that the new spacing of full length studs will be still be 16" o.c. or less.
I'll place a stud at the 10 inch mark, and the 22 inch mark. Then I"ll remove the middle stud, located 16 inches on center.

There's a closet behind this wall. How do I remove that middle stud without tearing up the drywall?

Thank you ,
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Old 05-02-2016, 12:13 PM   #59
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Question Kiln Dried Lumbar Structural Framing

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I also suggest using only kiln dried lumber for remodel framing.
Good afternoon,

My local building supply carries 8' x 2" x 4" made from Spruce. Will this be adequate for my modification? What else should I look for?

Thanks again,
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Old 05-02-2016, 12:28 PM   #60
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If the lumber is kiln dried, it should have a stamp on it that says "KD" or "KD HT". You want to avoid green lumber, where the stamp will say "GRN".

At least that is the way lumber is stamped around here.

Cheers, Wayne
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