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Old 02-06-2011, 05:07 PM   #1
Chris99
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where can I get a 2001 (yes, 2001) TCNA Handbook?

I need to see shower construction information that was in effect when my shower was built. Does anyone know where I can get a TCNA Installation Handbook from 2001 or the shower installation guidelines from that book? I have looked online with no luck.

Thanks!
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Old 02-06-2011, 05:14 PM   #2
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maybe if you can explain your shower problem the pros here can help you more.
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Old 02-06-2011, 05:38 PM   #3
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I think it was just the TCA Handbook back then. Here's a link to get you started http://www.unitedtile.com/.docs/pg/10066

TCNA likely has that handbook available for free online somewhere as its out of date. Give them a shout.
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Old 02-06-2011, 05:55 PM   #4
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I have ordered the latest edition from them...

I have been in touch with TCNA and have ordered the latest edition from them but I need 2001 or slightly earlier. Thanks for the link though. It's more than I came up with.

Wow, it was only 44 pages back then??
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Old 02-06-2011, 06:27 PM   #5
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Try this

go to abebooks.com. That is a site where 60 million books are for sale including many old and out of print ones.
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Old 02-06-2011, 08:41 PM   #6
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Chris, did you ask the folks at the TCNA if they had a copy of the 2001 edition? I think they were putting those on CD back that early and it might be they have an archive.

But I dunno that.
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Old 02-06-2011, 09:51 PM   #7
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has shower construction changed much since 2001?

CX, I'll check with them again but I thought they said it was out of print.

no luck on abebooks.com

further explanation:
I need to settle a debate between us and the builder about whether he built our shower incorrectly. (no preslope, no upturn at threshold, no threshold in liner, plugged weepholes, etc)

I know it's incorrect by the standards that now exist but I need to get familiar with the standards when he pulled the permit in 2002 for the shower that was built in 2003. Have there been any major changes since then?

Builder maintains that it was a failure of the liner and as well as a failure to maintain/seal that caused the current hole through our bathroom floor to our crawlspace. I disagree but need help refuting.

Thanks!
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Old 02-06-2011, 10:21 PM   #8
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Chris, this appears to be getting into a discussion of the dispute. Is this the same shower failure you posted about a year ago, or a new and different shower failure?

The tile industry standards haven't had any major chang to my knowledge on any of the portions applicable to the construction of a traditional shower receptor in that time frame.

You're local building code may have had some changes in the construction of shower walls, but nothing I'm aware of concerning the plumbing for a shower, which includes the requirement for a sloped waterproof pan liner.

You can make some arguments based upon the tile industry standards, but for leaking shower receptors, the plumbing code is where the teeth are. If the shower pan is leaking, there is a plumbing problem.

My opinion; worth price charged.
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Old 02-07-2011, 09:19 AM   #9
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any idea where to find the 2000 International Plumbing Code...?

...or whether it even contains shower construction parameters? Fearful that it does not, I'm looking for anything- industry standards, manufacturers installation guidelines...

CX
I have 2 failed showers.
I had some behind the scenes support and encouragement to post more details for the great minds here to work on. Not sure of the rules, should I be staying away from the dispute?
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Old 02-07-2011, 09:23 AM   #10
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Nothing wrong at all with discussing the dispute if you want, Chris, but if we're gonna do that we need to get all the threads about it combined so folks can see what the argument is about and what's been previously asked and answered.

The TCNA Handbook (TCA Handbook back then) does contain published methods for shower receptors and shower walls and such. You could use your current version for purpose of your arguments with your builder. If he wants to allege that the methods were substantively different in the version current with the shower construction, let him produce evidence of that.

My opinion; worth price charged.
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Old 02-08-2011, 11:02 AM   #11
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CX- I don't see teeth in the plumbing code- are we out of luck?

Quote:
Originally Posted by CX
for leaking shower receptors, the plumbing code is where the teeth are. If the shower pan is leaking, there is a plumbing problem
I found out that 1997 Standard Plumbing Code is what applies. It is much less detailed than the current code. As we face many thousands in repairs of 2 showers, we may need to decide whether to involve a lawyer. If didn't require the pan to contain water, does that make it okay even though mfg instructions were disregarded?

I know drywall was okay for tub surrounds, but was it ever okay for showers?
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Old 02-08-2011, 11:43 AM   #12
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Chris,

What are your intentions other than to prove installer error ? From a warranty point of view , isn't it expired ?
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Old 02-08-2011, 03:20 PM   #13
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my intentions

Quote:
Originally Posted by eurob
What are your intentions other than to prove installer error ?
We're faced with $10k+ in repairs of 2 showers that we don't think were built right. If it truly was a liner failure or maintenance issue as the builder claims, I don't want to mistakenly blame the builder.

We've talked with a lawyer who thinks we would have a good case because the damage speaks for itself. Nobody wants a lawyer breathing down their back so I really don't want to do that to him unless we need to. Before we bleed money to a lawyer on top of the repair costs we're facing, I'd like to be pretty sure that it is truly faulty and we have something more tangible than damage "speaking."

Statute of Repose for faulty construction is 8 years. From what the lawyer says, lack of a warranty can't excuse him from faulty construction. On one of my showers the liner not only lacks a preslope but it lays flat on the floor through the doorway. Since the weepholes are plugged, any water that soaked in to the tile has spilled out into my bathroom. But maybe code allowed for that that back then?

I'm sorry if any of you judge me poorly for wanting to hold him responsible because I agree, it does not sound pretty. But we're regular people and this is a huge financial hardship for what we think is poor work. I hope I've answered your question.
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Old 02-08-2011, 03:32 PM   #14
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I don't think you are out of line. And that stuff about improper sealing/maintenance causing water damage it rubbish. Grout is not intended to be waterproof.
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Old 02-08-2011, 03:56 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris99
Statute of Repose for faulty construction is 8 years. From what the lawyer says, lack of a warranty can't excuse him from faulty construction. On one of my showers the liner not only lacks a preslope but it lays flat on the floor through the doorway. Since the weepholes are plugged, any water that soaked in to the tile has spilled out into my bathroom. But maybe code allowed for that that back then?
Did you remove the tile and the mud layer or you are assuming it ?
The scope of the codes is to protect the integrity of the structure , regardless of the dammage of the finishing materials. If water leaked out of the shower enclosure you will have to prove that is due to faulty construction vs. abusive or negligent usage. Don't get me wrong , I am not trying to alienate you , but you will have to prove it , especially after a long period of time. Plugged holes or not , if the water is contained and the sloap of the finishing product is directing the water into the drain , plumbing code is respected.
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