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Old 01-20-2018, 04:58 PM   #1
drea13
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Am I being unreasonable

Hi, Have someone doing our shower, this person came recommended. Just want to make sure I am not being unreasonable.

First he tried to use usg sheetrock in the shower, made him switch out for durarock. Then he wanted to acrylipro for tile setting in the shower and i am insisting on flex bond. He went and placed the liner and there is no preslope (it is a concrete slab)! It wraps over the curb with durarock on either side nailed down. And to top it off he placed some wooden ledges to help him with the slope but he nailed these in through the durarock and membrane about 1-2 inches above the floor.

I am insisting he removes this and place a preslope, redo the liner with no punctures near the bottom and over the curb.

I am being told everyone has their own way of doing things, and granted i am not a professional by any means, only what Ive picked up learning about the subject because I considered doing it myself. I almost wish I was. Am I being unreasonable?

If I am I will back off and stop stressing and let him do his job, but if not it would make me feel better to know I am not just being a five letter B word for no reason, haha.
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Old 01-20-2018, 05:12 PM   #2
Gozo
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Let him do the work his way. Then sell the house quickly before the mold starts to rot away the framing and flooring.
Seriously, you’re not being unreasonable, but if he’s not working within standards and you know this, why is he working for you? If your dentist said “ooo, you have a small cavity, let’s pull that tooth”, you’d say no thanks and find another dentist to get it filled. Why accept substandard work for your home? I gave up trying not to hurt contractors’ feeling years ago. Maybe it just comes with age. And, yes, finding someone to do quality is harder than it should be. I won’t go into details here as I’d just get upset....
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Old 01-20-2018, 05:28 PM   #3
drea13
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He works for a contractor who is a friend of the family, so I cannot burn bridges per say. I am going to talk to the family friend and maybe just pay him for his work so far and try and find someone else. I am very uncomfortable
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Old 01-20-2018, 06:03 PM   #4
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Shouldn't pay him for any of that "work". He should be ripping it out for free to get you back to where things were before he started.
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Old 01-20-2018, 06:19 PM   #5
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Follow the teachings from The Art of War and give your Friend of Family (FOF)
a face saving way out of this;

FOF, I know your regular tile guys do great work, so when I saw what was happening in my shower, I figured they must have been really busy and subbed out my tile job to some knucklehead. I mean, I don't know much about tile work, but I know what this guys doing is way off the mark. He's a really nice guy and all, but he should go back to doing whatever it was before he started on my shower. Bless his heart. So when is your A -team available? Id be happy to wait for a quality job.
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Old 01-20-2018, 07:12 PM   #6
drea13
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Thank you guys for reassuring me i was not being unreasonable, there are times where they make you feel like you are being 'hysterical', but id prefer to think I am just a bit informed.
I would never dream of telling anyone how to do their job, knowing what that feels like (Funny you should mention the dentist example ).
But I have learned in the past the hard way, not to be a pushover either.
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Old 01-20-2018, 07:19 PM   #7
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Bottom line is he is doing things wrong, if he insists that everyone has their own way then nicely ask him to show you the illustration of his methods in the TCNA handbook....odds are he won't know what you're talking about. There are many ways to properly prep a shower, so far he's tried several ways to ruin yours.
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Old 01-20-2018, 07:42 PM   #8
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Every step forward from this point is a waste of time and money.
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Old 01-21-2018, 09:25 AM   #9
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It's not unreasonable to want a shower that is built to current codes and industry accepted methods.
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Old 01-21-2018, 10:55 AM   #10
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I'm in a very similar situation. Spent a year and a half getting a bathroom ready to tile, fixing other peoples mistakes. Hired a tile contractor but was not happy with what I was seeing and we parted ways. I plan on doing it myself and I have not regretted that decision. Good Luck.

As Kman said, "Every step forward from this point is a waste of time and money."
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Old 01-21-2018, 05:31 PM   #11
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Well guys, bit of an update. Spoke to the gentleman about it, gave him the option of splitting ways or continuing and restarting the way I would prefer, and he was very receptive. I sent him a few links explaining what I was looking for. He tore everything out and started from scratch doing exactly as I ask, checking each step, so far I am pleased with the progress. I will be keeping a good eye though especially as he starts tile. Who knows, maybe hell take something back for when he works other jobs. But I am feeling much more confident in my shower from preslopes, to corner protectors on curbs, to weep hole protector.
I wish I had been more upfront at the beginning and asked more questions to avoid the issue in the first place, so from now on when I hire someone, Ill make sure I ask their process instead of assuming. And honestly, this stuff isn't rocket science with good research, and I really believe no one is going to care about your home as doing things correctly as much as you do. However, I do feel like good tiling/grouting is probably something that comes with experience and a full shower with epoxy grout is probably not a great place to start.

Out of curiosity Ive seen it both ways. Do you guys bury your CBU in the mud (flush with liner) or a bit above?. I opted to go above as I figure it would be better for the water to fall down the wall into the pan and not soak the bottom of the CBU?
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Old 01-21-2018, 06:07 PM   #12
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No, your tile guys is unreasonable

I've remodeled one house and built a second. I interviewed contractors, took and checked references, and had problems with every single tile installation. My experience may be atypical, I may be the "homeowner from hell" for tile contractors, but from my personal experience, my expectations for ANY tile professional are very low.

This is your thread, and I don't intend to hijack it, but I interviewed four contractors for a travertine master bath (2nd story, chip board flooring), chose the best, and stopped him after he used mastic to glue down hardibacker, with no consideration of floor construction, flex, loading, or the manufacturers instructions for the product. He said that I insulted his professionalism, and walked off the job (though I got half my money back, i.e. he threw cash at me when he drove away). Second house, the contractor scattered hardibacker around like he was dealing cards, with 1 to 2 inch gaps between boards, and all four corners butted together rather than staggered. He topped it off by smearing red guard over the hardibacker/pressed board underlayment & floor. After I fired him and ripped out the installation, I interviewed and specified point by point on how I wanted the underlayment installed (and pinned hardy's instructions to the wall), I paid extra, and told him I wanted an additional water proofing membrane (Red Guard or equivalent) on top of the hardy. I caught him finishing up the floor tile, with NO nylon mesh & mortar connecting the sheets, and no membrane. When I first reviewed and asked him about the missing tape, he said he forgot it, and would do it the next time out. When I called him on it the second time (i.e. after the tile was laid), he argued (quite angrily) that there was no need for either the tape or membrane, EVEN THOUGH HE HAD CONTRACTUALLY agreed to it and been paid extra for it. I covered the issues during the interview/contract, during the middle of the job, and at the end, and still this guy would not do what he committed to. Moreover, his tile work was shoddy. My Master shower has a line of tile at one edge that starts with a two inch margin (i.e. to the corner of the front wall) and trails up to the top where there is no margin. I thought maybe the wall was crooked, but I checked with a 5' level, and sure enough, his tile rows from left to right sagged at every row, resulting in the outter right hand end row sloping to the right an 1/8" for every row. He had to have noticed his error, but just finished the tile that way and walked away from the job with money in hand. I am certain I could have successfully sued him and gone after his license, but I didn't have time to rip out the bathroom a third time, as we were moving into the house.

The short of it is, buyer beware. If you're acting as the prime contractor (which you are, unless you are building a house and have a prime running the show for you), YOU ARE QUALITY CONTROL. You are all of it. This guy is working with concrete and stone, his errors will be with you for years, either until you rip it all out and pay to have it redone again, or until the subfloor rots out. One thing that the pro's on this forum stress that makes a lot of sense is that while there are more than one way to do a tile job, there are no short cuts that won't cost you a lot of money and grief later, after your tile contractor is long gone.

Honestly, I've contracted for or done enough tile work to know better, to know the standards, to ask the right questions, and I still got stung by three different contractors. I had my best luck simply hiring laborers who weren't "pro's", but who had basic tile skills, and did obey directions.

Save me from "the pro's" who know it all, and "have done it this way for ### years".

Good luck with your project. Pull references from this site, MIA, the manufacture, and other authorities. Argue from a point of knowledge and references.
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Old 01-21-2018, 06:12 PM   #13
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"Do you guys bury your CBU in the mud (flush with liner) or a bit above?. I opted to go above as I figure it would be better for the water to fall down the wall into the pan and not soak the bottom of the CBU? "

Don't have the time to do the research, but that was a point of learning for me. My tile guys ended the CBU above the mud, which surprised me the first time I saw this. However, I think that's the proper way to do it. I can't recall the specifics now, but I think the CBU overlays the liner so that the water sheds off the CBU and down into the pan liner.

This stuff is published somewhere on the site. Check it out and you'll find the right answer.
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Old 01-21-2018, 06:39 PM   #14
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Am I being unreasonable

Hardi backer.
#3 wall installation section.
Install boards 1/4” above foor, tub or shower pan and caulk accordingly.
https://www.jameshardie.com/d2w/inst...cker-us-en.pdf


Durorock
Leave gap between tub or floor etc. basically same as hardi board
Bottom of page 6
http://www.usg.com/content/dam/USG_M...e-en-SA932.pdf
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Old 01-21-2018, 09:50 PM   #15
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Take LOTS of pictures along the way. Of his work and the buckets, bags, and boxes of the materials he is using.

Post pictures BEFORE the tile as the most important parts happen before the tile.
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