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Old 03-17-2013, 10:34 PM   #91
cx
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Quote:
Originally Posted by George
I can pull the pipe over enought to make it vertical but there is a fair amount of stress on the fittings below.
Kindly of depends upon your view of fair, George.

I'd want mine as close to plumb as I could get it. I have frequently had to block a drain riser into place and fill around it to keep it there. I like a good fit on my solvent welded fittings, too.

My opinion; worth price charged.
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Old 03-17-2013, 11:37 PM   #92
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Fair enough. So if you need to move a drain pipe to make it vertical, you block it in place with say a section of PVC pipe wedged against it and the hold out wall until it gets set in floor mud? My concern there is a cracked glue joint under the slab down the road from putting a bias on the pipe and the joints.
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Old 03-17-2013, 11:41 PM   #93
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Well, if you think you're fixin' to stress it too much, you'll need to do a repair instead. Couple 1/8th bend elbows or similar, depending upon how much room you have to work with.

Sometimes replacing the P-trap is even necessary.

Sometimes it's even possible to heat the riser enough to plumb it up, but you sure ain't gonna hear that from me, not on a public forum, anyway.

My opinion; worth price charged.
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Old 03-19-2013, 12:55 AM   #94
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How soon after the mud floor can you walk on it and start the Kerdi on the walls and how soon after the Kerdi can you start to tile?

Thanks,
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Old 03-19-2013, 10:38 AM   #95
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Give the mud 24 hours to harden. You can tile over Kerdi immediately, although some folks wait a day.
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Old 03-19-2013, 08:16 PM   #96
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Pushed the drain pipe over a little, glued the drain a little "crooked" and pushed the whole thing over the rest of the way when I grouted the drain in the hold out. Got it almost dead perfect.

Mud floor turned out pretty good, need to tweak it a little before Kerdi.

Due to time constrainst I need to push the time frames a little. I will wait as long as I can and plan to start the Kerdi walls (standing on the floor with heavy cardboard) about 10 hours after the floor mud was mixed and then Kerdi the floor as late as possible. Tile will probably start about 6 hours after the last Kerdi.

I will post back after its all done.

Thanks,
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Old 03-19-2013, 08:29 PM   #97
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Quote:
posted by George:
Mud floor turned out pretty good, need to tweak it a little before Kerdi.
Looks good George, what needs to be tweaked?
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Old 03-21-2013, 03:55 PM   #98
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I overworked the mud a little at the end and wound up with some loose sand in a few potholes when I vacuumed it up before Kerdi.

BTW, I used Jamo GTS unmodified thinset from HD to put the Kerdi up and it worked like a charm. That has to be the highest portland content thinset for the money. Portland as high as Ditraset for under $10 a bag. Mixed easy and nice and creamy.

Starting tiling right after Kerdi was no problem except the floor got some marks in it from the traffic/buckets. Does not look like it got violated anywhere.

Dilex EKE looks and worked good at the plane changes but be sure to tile the whole job in one day or the Dilex can get tweaked and not be able to be adjusted as you tile into a new plane because the thinset is dry.
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Old 03-23-2013, 08:51 AM   #99
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The corner build up with multiple layers of full thickness material really is an issue. It is even more of an issue with the Dilex expansion joint trim. On the next shower I am going to take more time and butt all Kerdi membrane joints and then use Kerdi band, especially in the corners.
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Old 11-19-2014, 10:21 AM   #100
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Believe it or not, this project is still underway (cancer sucks) but all 3 showers are tiled and ready for grout. There are so many great resources here and I got my education from all of the people who took the time to post here - thank you. That said, here are my lessons learned and observations.

The whole plain drywall/cement board/etc is a pain. You can have nervous contractors and inspector issues galore. I just went with Wonder Board and kept going which worked out fine, but ...

Before Kerdi, really go over the entire enclosure to make sure you are plumb and square because after Kerdi you have baked in the humps and bumps. The tile guy cant just get out the wrecking hammer and tweak that piece of cement board as he is going across the wall. Then it's stop for the day, pull off the surround tiles, fix the Kerdi and start over tomorrow - or so I have heard. Take a straight edge and check the walls paying particular attention to the corners. If there is a hump where a large tile has to make a turn around say a knee wall, the flag will stick out at the end and be impossible to blend. Look at all the board corners where the screws came close to the edge and squirted out the cement board and fix those areas. Same for proud screws in the field. When you start pushing the Kerdi into the thinset with your trowel edge or drywall knife you can get damage to the membrane as you go over these areas. Same for any depressions that need to be floated or boards that are proud from something wedged over the furring strips. Go over the enclosure with the tile guy and mark the problem areas so the waterproof enclosure is perfect. If you are doing the tiling, go ahead and talk to yourself, just don't answer - that would be crazy.

The dilex corner treatments are pretty cool and I used them everywhere but they do add complexity to the work. You have another variable that has to be tweaked and makes blending everything into a nice flat plane with even grout lines even harder. You have to commit on the dilex cuts to start with and if your running walls get taller or shorter you may have a problem at the top meeting up perfectly. Slightly longer is better because it can be fixed or cut to end before the bullnose and plan on grouting to the top. The deep channel is for the floor. On the wall don't have two deep channels facing each other or you have to tuck both ends in. Start on the wall with deep channel, tuck in the cut and head to the other end where you will butt to the next piece of Dilex.

Build up really can be a problem, especially in the corners. Knife in the thinset so its not so thick and make sure its loose mud, use Kerdi band not overlaps, hold the band out of the inside corners so that you just have your 2" overlap and really squeeze out the thinset, holding the edge in with another blade until you have nice tight corners. On outside corners, check the turn on the large wall with a straight edge so you don't get the aformentioned hump at the turn. If you are getting that bunched up ridge at the 45 of an outside corner, pull the sides so the crease comes slightly out of the corners to pull the crease tight at the 45.

Don't add more than 2 layers after the base Kerdi in weird angles, use Kerdi Fix.

When you turn a corner on a new wall, really push the Kerdi in and hold it in when you squeeze out the air and embed the membrane on the short side otherwise the Kerdi can slightly come out of the corner and have a radius after it sets up. thats bad. Keep a wood straight edge handy and push it in the corner as you squeeze out the short side.

If you are butting sheets and using Kerdi Band to minimize build up, err on the side of the sheets being very slightly shy so you don't sqeeze into the previous sheet and have this very slight overlap.

Mark the sheet edges above at the wall and out at the floors or you cover up your lines with thinset and get lost as the sheets go up. When you dry fit, make a mark on the new and previous sheet half way up the wall when you know the bottom is at the floor and start your new sheet there, checking the floor first and then commit. It sucks when the sheet just starts onto the floor as you press out the air because it's hard to cut that little tail off cleanly. Get the floor right, the top does not matter as much cuz your going to tile slightly over the Kerdi edge anyway.

Look all over the sheet for trowel lines underneath, that where the air is.

You really do have to make the thinset looser than normal, watch the Schluter video and if you use cement board, really wet the board with a soaked sponge first. If its hot and dry you get into trouble before you finish spreading thinset on the wall otherwise. Make plenty of mud. You don't want to run out 3/4 of the way down the wall. Making new mud really fast makes a really big mess - or so I have heard,

Precut and dry fit all your sheets first, except maybe the floor. Do all your field hole cuts for plumbing and check. You don't want any oh sh@@ moments with thinset on the walls and a gooey sheet of Kerdi.

Measure you Kerdi on the floor for cuts and use weights or a helper to make sure its stretched out before measuring and commiting. The smaller rolls dont have a cardboard core and are not as smooth as the bigger roll so you have to pull out the kinks before cutting. If not, the pieces will get too long as you embed them.

Jamo GTS is a great unmodified thinset. It's cheap, available at big orange and has a very high portland content and goes on smooth. i can tell you that if you do your work correctly, removing GTS based membrane, bands and corners is a bitch. That stuff is stuck for life. In some places I had to use a chisel - or so I have heard.

Make sure to start the drain high and butter under the drain grate corners so when you push the grate down to meet the tile you have good support. Have a small round bubble level handy to check the drain as it goes down and have extra mud under the last few tiles next to the drain. That way you make sure that you can get that steep drop out of the last tiles and tweak everything to be level to a level drain and make sure they all pitch down. When you cut and dry fit the tiles around the drain, block them up to the final grade or cut the gaps a little big cuz they get tighter when the mud takes out some of the last pitch. Recutting those little tiles in the heat of battle all gooey is a bitch, especially when the tile guy is swearing and yelling that he would like to get the frigggin' Schluter CEO out here to actually install this sh@@ in the field instead of a lab in Germany - or so I have heard.

If you are working with someone else on this, make sure they are bought in on the idea of using your new fangled weird German stuff otherwise you are going to have a very long 3 days and possibly tear out a drain or 2 as they are pulling out of your driveway before the mud sets and redo them yourself so they are right before the next day (and deny everything). Also, you will have to listen to 3 days of your Dilex based Schluter shower referred to as the friggin' derilect system- or so I have heard.

I am very happy with the finished product and will use it again and the tile guy that I worked with is an experienced and good tile guy but I might do all the work myself next time.

Lastly, there is more than one way to skin this cat (overlap seams, lightly modified thinset, plain drywall, etc) with great results so other ideas found here can work just as well as the ones I presented.
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Last edited by GeorgeG; 11-19-2014 at 06:36 PM.
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