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Old 08-31-2003, 04:55 PM   #1
srkinder
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What material is usually put in above showers in new construction, dry wall, green wa

I will be buying a new house. The builder wants too much money to install tile. I think I could do it later for half the cost and get better tile too.

What should I tell the builder to put above the showers and above the bathtub in areas I plan to put tile in later.

I understand I should not tile over drywall.

Maybe I can install concrete board over drywall or greenwall later.

What do your guys recommend I tell the builder so I can install tile later? And then should I install anything later?

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Old 08-31-2003, 05:08 PM   #2
Jason_Butler
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I doubt the builder will install anything but Greenboard. It's like pullin' teeth to get CBU down here in Tejas

However, in a perfect world a vapor barrier of 15lb roofing felt should be placed over the studs. The CBU ( Hardibacker, Durock, etc) should be installed over the felt. The joints should be taped and floated using CBU tape and thinset. The key here is that the builder would have to leave the CBU unfinished - meaning no paint , texture, etc.

These coatings would not allow the Thinset to bond with the CBU.

As an alternative, You can install CBU over greenboard. I prefer not to do this because the weakest part of the install is still the greenboard.

If the builder installed either CBU or greenboard, what does he intend to cover it with until you get to the tilin' ?

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Old 08-31-2003, 05:27 PM   #3
Sonnie Layne
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tell him/her not to "sheath" it at all, you can do that. If you've already bought into it, greenboard, or water resistant wallboard (same stuff) will do for the ceilings only. Real important....... who's doing the pan install and the pre-slope for the pan?

Are they doing the pan, as well, in the shower? We are willing and able to save some headaches as it's being built, if so. Keep us posted. If nothing else, we can perhaps keep you aware of what the installers are doing. Maybe even keep the installers in line as they address this job, but that's asking a bit much. Doing it yourself isn't even near impossible, we've done the walk through here many times. If the contractor says it's a built in thingy, then insist on taking pic's as it goes along and insist there be a pre-slope under the liner (watch his/her eyes closely when you say that).

Welcome to the TYW forum, where we welcome challenges and always know the answers. Albeit after a few days of haggering around... We ain't exactly Allstate, but you're in good hands just the same. and if we don't know what we're talking about, we'll say so. That's highly unlikely. Again, welcome to the forum. Make yourself ready for a lot of info......

Couple things to help us.... we like to be on a first name basis, and (really important) we like to know what area of the world you're talkin' from. We've members from all over the globe and many of those members may be available to comment on the way things are done, or the materials that are available in your area.

'course I guess we could call you John Doe 12945, but there's no fun in that. Anyway, welcome, you'll be happy here.

Oh, and you can tile over greenboard, just not in the shower area, except for the ceiling. NO WALLS SHALL BE SHEATHED WITH GREEN BOARD.
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Old 09-01-2003, 07:55 PM   #4
srkinder
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Sonnie and Jason, Thank You for your reply. I will have to read some more so I can talk with you more intelligently. Let me explain what the builder will do.
The builder will put in one of those heavy plastic three sided shower stalls, about 6 feet tall. Above this plastic stall, it appears there will be white painted dry wall about 2.5 feet to the ceiling. I want to tile this area on the walls above the plastic shower stall. I do not know what material is normally used for this wall above the shower stall.
The builder will install the slope and pan, I expect the banker will require a completely finished bathroom before we can take posession.
I read a book in the "Home Depot," a local hardware/home supply/contractor supply store, where concrete board may be painted over if two other substances are applied over the concrete first.

So it sounds like you are telling me it is best to ask for concrete board for the walls around the shower stall; then later I can scrape any paint off and put "thinset" on the concrete and then stick the tile on the thinset. Is this correct?

Jason, so you say I could put concrete board over green board on these walls?

And is it unacceptable to put concrete board over ordinary dry wall for a wall above the plastic shower stall?

I suppose I could cut the dry wall out of the area above the shower area down to the studs and put in concrete board later. What do you think about that idea? But that is a lot of work.

Tomorrow I must find out what they normally use for the walls above a plastic shower area.

Thanks for your wisdom and experience!
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Old 09-01-2003, 07:57 PM   #5
srkinder
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Oops! I forgot to tell you, my name is Steve Kinder from the Kansas City area.
Thanks,
Steve
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Old 09-01-2003, 08:20 PM   #6
Rob Z
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Hi Steve

Most of my family is from the KS area.

It will probqably be difficult to get the builder to make small changes like you're asking about . It is so easy to tear out drywall once you're in the house I would do that and install cbu's when you do you project.
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Old 09-02-2003, 06:44 AM   #7
John Bridge
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Welcome aboard, Steve.

I agree with Rob. Tract builders are programmed. They don't adjust very well.
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Old 09-02-2003, 07:53 AM   #8
srkinder
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So if drywall is taken out above the plastic shower stall, drywall would still be under/beneath the plastic shower stall walls. -Then concrete board would be placed on the studs above the plastic shower. Is that how to do it?

I wonder how hard it would be to take out the entire plastic shower stall and make a shower with entire tiled walls and floor in the 2nd story of my new house? Pretty big project for a beginner like me, I suspect.

Perhaps I could learn by making a whole tiled wall and tiled floor shower in the basement. The basement is not finished.

Thanks,
Steve from Kansas City
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Old 09-02-2003, 10:48 AM   #9
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Welcome aboard, Steve.

Seems like there is a lot of confusion here, so I'll add to it as best I can.

If you haven't sheetrocked yet, and you plan to tear out the plastic shower, see if you can get the builder to add 2x10 blocking to the bottom of the shower area, then let them sheetrock away. Hopefully, he will at least use MR board (green sheetrock) in that area. You will rip up the surface of it when you tear out the shower, but you'll add a poly barrier and CBU anyway, so I wouldn't worry about it. Then you can just cut off the bottom ten inches of sheetrock and you're ready to build your shower. I do not agree with some others that it is a problem to have sheetrock behind your CBU or mud walls, but you can tear it all out if you want. Then you hafta fur out the studs before you add your CBU anyway.

Building an entire shower from scratch is not beyond DIY capabilities if you're handy with the tools and a bit mechanically inclined. The pros here have walked quite a few through the whole thing with some striking results.

First thing I would do is talk with your banker. See if you can get them to sign off on the permanent money without the upstairs shower being finished. If you have another full bath in the house, they might go for it. Or not. Doesn't hurt to axe, eh? Then see if your builder will agree to just leave it alone. Be sure you agree (you and the builder) on what is to be completed and what is not, and how much allowance he is going to give you for not completing that work.

In the alternative, building a shower in the basement first would certainly make your second one go faster and probably give you confidence to make the upstairs one a bit fancier. Seems a shame to hafta pay for a shower just to tear it back out, though.

Builders are such a PITA, no?
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Old 09-02-2003, 10:51 AM   #10
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Steve, since you are having a plastic shower surround installed, and are tiling above the surround, then set your tile on the drywall/greenboard, and go on with your life. This area is outside the "wet area" of the shower and will be acceptable without CBU underneath.

Just remind the painters not to paint the bathroom, and you'll be fine. If they do paint, it's not the end of the world, just a lot of sanding to scuff/remove the paint for a good bond with the tile.
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Old 09-03-2003, 10:47 AM   #11
srkinder
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Thanks everyone for your time and information. I feel good about installing some cool tile myself because the builder wants way too much to do it.

CX said to tell the builder to install some 2X10 blocking around the shower are if I will later tear out the cheap plastic shower stall and put in a shower with tiled walls and floor. Is this to support the extra weight of the tile and mud? This bathroom/shower is on the 2nd floor.

In a couple of years, I also want to take the linoleum out of this bathroom and put some 1 foot tile on the floor of the bathroom. Should the floor be reinforced for this? This bathroom is on the 2nd floor, which means that if I need to reinforce it, I should do it while the house is being built.

Thanks,
Steve from Kansas City.
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Old 09-03-2003, 11:01 AM   #12
Sonnie Layne
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Steve,

the 2x10's that cx (Kelly) mentioned are for nailing a shower pan floor to. Nothing structural. They would be laid in between the studs vertically so you would have a nominal 10" nailing block to attach the pan liner.

On the other hand, if you're gonna leave this shower assembly in place for several years and want to tile above it in the mean time, I'd ask the contractor to use MR (moisture resistant) sheetrock (AKA Greenboard, because it's green, so everyone that doesn't speak english will know what it is) around the shower and ask that the painters mask off the tub/shower enclosure. I know it's a simple matter, but make sure you're not going to be charged a change-order fee. If the fee is $1000, you might want to weigh it out cost wise.

Alternatively, you could hunt down the crew chief that's gonna paint your place and axe him real nice if he'd do it for you... or mask it off your self. It does get crazy in these situations, the communication drifts away from reality easily. That's why I'm not allowed around these sites .
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Old 09-03-2003, 07:28 PM   #13
John Bridge
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The plastic showers are nailed to the studs. Drywall does not go behind them. In fact, the sheetrockers usually lap the sheetrock over the nailing flange of the shower. This, of course, makes the sheetrock flare out all around the shower. I would just let them do their thing. Later, cut the sheetrock out in the area you want to tile and replace it with backer board, but stop short of the nailing flange and let the tile carrry through to the plastic shower.
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Old 09-04-2003, 12:54 PM   #14
srkinder
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Ok, I feel more comfortable and informed now with you guys' help. I have learned a lot. And I will speak with the Crew Chief about not painting the greenboard. I will axe him. Good idea. Before it's over they may not allow me on the site either!

And next week, I intend on posting a picture of a cool walk in shower I saw. Digital Cameras make it easy to post here pictures here now.

I will keep reading this site to keep learning.

And Thanks!
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Old 09-04-2003, 05:42 PM   #15
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Steve, Where's Near Kansas?
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