Bathroom/kitchen tile/stone installation

[achimbos]

I have been absorbing information from this forum for the past week and decided it was time to get involved. I just ordered both books listed on this site and cannot wait to start reading them.

I am in the process of building a new home that I plan on tiling myself.

Here is the question I have:

1. I will be using Travertine (12x12) in our master bath including the walls in the shower. I have already installed an acrylic shower base (34x42) which has a lip on it of about 3/16". I understand that the wall should be water proofed using either roofing felt or some other membrane, but I need to know the best method for installing the backerboard. Should I use 2 pieces of 1/4" backer and set one on the top of the 3/16" lip and then set the other a 1/4" above the shower base or should I use a piece of 1/2" backer and notch the back to sit over the lip?

I will be tiling 3 bathrooms as well as a kitchen/laundry area. I plan on using 1/4" hardie backer over the 3/4" OSB floor. Any advice regarding my installation would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks for your help.

Alex Chimbos

PS - I have done some tiling before.

[John Bridge]

Hi Alex, Welcome to Tilemania! If you've been hanging around here a week you know we don't always argree with each other. So I'll get my two cents worth in before the others know you're here.

Don't use travertine in the shower. It is one of the worst choices you could make. It is nearly impossible to maintain.

Okay, got that off my chest. Now I'll wait for the others to tell you how to install the backer.

[Bud Cline]

I'm not clear on how the 1/2" wallboard (2x1/4" or 1x1/2") is compatible with the 3/16" lip and how will the tile meet the bottom of the acrylic base.

To laminate two 1/4" CBU's would be a big hassle I think, to notch the 1/2" would be much easier.

John is right about the travertine, and keep in mind most stone tile products are 3/8" thick, not a major deal but you need this information if your trying to "hit a mark" sometimes.

I also would not use travertine in a kitchen, "sorry". People do it I suppose but I think it would not be the wisest choice.

Hardibacker I have no experience with, I'm a cement board guy myself.

[John Bridge]

Bud,

Isn't it okay to just stop the 1/2 in. backer board above the lip on the receptor and let the tile/stone go down to the ledge? It'll carry that far, won't it?

[Bud Cline]

I think so but I'm confused about the 3/16" lip. To notch the cement board in lieu of laminating 1/4" board is where I'm lost. If the lip is 3/16" thick then what happens with the other 5/16" thickness of the 1/2" board and then where does the tile end up on top of this?

Hi Alex

I run cement board down to just on top of the flange or lip that you describe. The tile continues on down to within an 1/8" or so of the shower base. For that short (1/2" or so) vertical dimension, the tile has no backerboard behind it.

Is this what you were asking about?

Rob

[achimbos]

To answer one of the questions, the kitchen will actually be tile only the master bath would be travertine. I have been reading enough information to know that travertine is not a good choice for a bathroom, but I have a wife that thinks she can take care of it. The lip on the show base is about 1 1/4" inches tall so the tile would actually be hanging down a little over an inch. I think my best bet would either be to notch the backer board or to pull the shower base out and notch the studs so the base sits flush with the wall (which might a alot of work since the drain and stuff is already attached.

Thanks for your help.

Hi Alex

John Bridge Forum Moderator Rule #1: DO NOT try to talk Forum user's spouse out of doing something they firmly want to do. We are not here to cause marital discord.

And so, if that's the way it is, we'll advise you about sealers to use once the stone is installed.

As for the concerns about the lip or flange. Rather than pull the whole thing out and notching studs, you can add strips of lattice or door stop to fur out the face of the studs past the thickness of the flange. The backer board can then run down to within a 1/4" of the shower base. Fill this 1/4" gap in with silicone to prevent wicking.

Check where the plaster guard(s) are set for the shower valve(s) to make sure that this extra 1/4" to 3/8" won't cause a problem when trimming out the valve. It shouldn't be a problem-there is lots of play for most valves and their trim, but I have seen valves that were set too far back in the wall, or almost too far, so that by the time some tilework was done, the plumber had a problem.

BTW, if the valve is too far back in the wall, there are extension kits for some brands. that saves you from having to tear out the valve and redo it.

Rob

[achimbos]

If I fir out the studs a 1/4", and use 1/2" backer board, the backer board would then not be flush with the sheetrock. From what I have read in other threads, 1/4" backer would not be strong enough. Please let me know if this is correct.

Alex

Hi Alex

That's correct - the extra quarter inch brings the plane of the tile out farther than the drywall in the bathroom.

I deal with this by either furring the rest of the wall in the bathroom (easy and quick, if the drywall is demo'd anbyway) OR skimming some drywall mud from the tile out into the field of the drywall for a few feet to minimize the 1/4" gap OR filling the gap with caulk.

The one rule I follow is to set the tile the right way, and let the consequences ride out in other parts of the room.

rob

[achimbos]

They just finished taping and painting the wall this weekend, I don't think they will be willing to redo it right now. I think I will end up feeding the 1/2" sheets through my radial arm saw to remove the 3/16" from the back.

Hi Alex

I would not undertake running Hardibacker through a radial arm saw just for this little overhang issue. Think how many passes you're gonna have to make. I don't think anyone makes a dado head cutter for Hardiboard. The mess and the dust will be tremendous.

I have put up truckloads of backerboard in showers over the years, and I just don't worry about that unsupported portion of the tile. I have never seen a tile broken at the bottom of a shower base except for ones that were set directly on top of the base with no room allowed for movemant. Even if someone was in the shower deliberately kicking the bottom of the tile, I don't think they could break the tile because it's unsupported along the lwer one inch.

Rob

[kalford]

Float the gap with latex mod. thinset.A time tested method for dealing with this.No need to do all that cutting on the Hardi board.

This works very well because the mod. thinset is "flexible" and very forgiving.If wicking is a concern,seal it with a trowel on membrane before installing the tile, then just caulk the inside corners as usual.

[achimbos]

Should I rest the 1/2" backer board directly on the top of the flange or should I leave it a 1/4" up and caulk the joint? I am assuming I should put additional blocking behind the backer board since it will no have the flange to help support it. Is this correct?

[Eric CTC]

Stone installed in a shower is never a good choice because of several conditions. Moisture, temperature, and maintance considerations. Stone and grout are absorbant materials, the water they absorb go through them and then may be trapped. This water trapped behind stone can result in job failures and staining etc. Hot temps from water in the shower sprayed on cold stone can cause cracking and release of minerials in the stone. Depending on where you live the domestic water supplied to your home may have high TDS or minerial content(hard water) Combine this with the natural minerials in the stone, body and soap oils and you have a very dificult surface to maintain. Polished stones soon loose their "shine" due to the cleaners used and after a short while your once attractive stone looks ugly. You can seal the stone and using proper and frequent cleaning procedures maintain the stone and keeps its beauty. It is a lot of work. See the Aqua MIx web site for proper procedures. I love stone but have installed a fiberglass type material in my shower to avoid the maintance. If you really want the "look" I would install ceramic look a like tile, looks like stone and is far easlier to maintain, make sure you use a high quality sealer to seal the grout and avoid cleaners that contain bleach or acid to clean the tile and grout.