Steam Shower

[maporter]

I have seen references to "steam showers" on this board and in other places. It sounds interesting, especially since I'm at the beginning of a renovation process. Can someone point me in the direction of some information about these beasts?

Thanks.

[Bud Cline]

maporter,

Now you've got me curious. I went surfing and came up with this website. Those are fairly nifty little guys, H-m-m-m-m gets me to thinkin'.

What do you know about them?

http://www.plumbingworld.com/thermasol.html

Hi Mike

Thanks for joining the Forum. Some of the major plumbing manufacturers make steam units. Try kohler, American Standard, Jacuzzi, etc to see what they have.

From a tile standpoint, consult the TCA handbook for steam room detail. The 2001 TCA standards are SR613-01 (Mortar) and SR614-01 (Cement Board). You can contact the TCA at http://www.tileusa.com.

While I have never done a steam room installation, I can see from the detail that it is important to use expansion joints, waterproof the substrate, and to slope the ceiling and the floor.

This should be considered a high-end tile installation, requiring a skilled tile setter.

I've heard stories through the grapevine of steam shower units installed every which way, including with mastic/greenboard.

Please let us know what you find out from Kohler and the others. Come back and see us with tile questions as your project progresses.

Rob

[John Bridge]

Hi Mike,

The steam showers I've done have been with metal lath and cement mortar (mud). The only extras are to make sure the moisture barrier is done thoroughly, and that the steam unit is readily accessible.

If I were going to do one using cement backer board, I would use 3 mil poly as a moisture barrier, and then waterproof the surface prior to tiling, as backer boards present more of a problem with water "wicking" than does old fashion mortar.

I understand the reasoning behind sloping the ceiling, but I don't think it is really effective. Condensation is still going to cling to the lid, so I don't think I would go to the trouble.

The glass enclosure should have an operating "transom" window above the door to let out excess steam when necessary. The transom should remain open when the shower is not in use. This will help air the thing out.

Installing an exhaust fan would also be a good idea. The thrust would be to dry the unit out as soon as possible after each use to prevent or control mold growth.

The idea of expansion joints is new to me. I would have to hear more of the thinking behind that to make a judgment. I value Rob's thinking on this, though. He is probably among the best technically educated people in the trade today. As it stands, though, I don't think expansion joints are necessary.

[Edited by John Bridge on 06-15-2001 at 06:37 PM]

Hi John

The TCA detail shows the expansion joints at changes of plane-wall to floor, ceiling to wall, etc. This is a standard rec on TCA's part. On the mortar installation detail, they list expansion joints on walls greater than 16'.

I wonder if these standards are developed by anectodal experience or derived by materials science testing on tile under effects of heating and cooling.

I think the exhaust fan is a must, as well. Preferably one that moves about 500 cfm.

Rob Z

[Jesse Cole]

Just found this site, and looked for answer to a question which you address. I am planning to build a steam shower but was warned off about putting a vent in the shower itself because of hot steam effects on fan motor, I guess. Shower is a dedicated steam room about 8 x 8 feet. The bath will be ventilated. Prefer to have one wall, including door, glass, so I am not sure about transom idea.
Any thoughts?

[John Bridge]

Hi Jesse, Welcome.

I think the transom is the way to go, and I also don't see any problem with a fan motor. A good one won't be affected by steam from a steam shower anymore than it would be by steam for a regular shower. How about a transom with the fan outside the shower in the bathroom ceiling?

[maxman]

My new steam shower does not have a fan inside the enclosure but it does have a vapor proof light and a transom. The fan is pretty close on the bathroom ceiling. I leave the bathroom fan on and then I turn on the cold shower to dissipate some of the steam before opening the transom. This setup has been working fine so far.

Max

[Jesse Cole]

Thanks for the quick reply. Well, I was thinking of doing what Maxman suggested, but all things being equal I would just as soon have a fan in the steam room. Maybe the reason I was warned off was because of leaks at the fan orifice/ceiling. I plan to have a central whole house bathroom fan system. Would you recommend installing the orifice for the fan in the same way as the drain is established in the floor? Just seems like with the high, prolonged temperature and humidity this would be an area prone to leaks if not done correctly.

BTW, I have been browsing this site, and as soon as I catch up on the other threads, I have a lot of questions related to installation of tile and porcelain in other places, including outdoors, over radiant heat, etc. Great information here.

[bbcamp]

It may be more work than it is worth, but if the fan was outside the steam room, ducted to blow into the room, and another duct or vent to exhaust the room, the fan would not see the high humidity and condensation. More better with backdraft damper on the fan duct. Inlet duct low, exhaust vent high to take advantage of the heat.

Blowing into the room is less effecient than exhausting from it, but all you want to do is to dry the thing out, right?




Alright then, never mind...

Am I glad I came across this site.

I am just in the process of installing a steam shower and never considered ANY of these.

I have a few questions if some one would be good enough to reply.

My steam shower is a 5' * 3' base with ceramic tile sides, back & ceiling.

I have a centrally ducted exhaust so I could add an additional vent in the shower if there are any decent grills that would allow me to seal it while I am in the shower ( so it doesn't suck out the steam while showering ).....any thoughts?

Also I have been given a ton of different advice on the backer board. I finally setteled on Dens Shield and all the nail holes, joints are supposed to be covered with a rubber produce called Red Guard.....again, any thoughts?


I never thought about the vent in the transom. If I use the vent in the shower would that suffice for regular shower mist \ steam removal

I have also been given conflicting info on the tile adhesive. One tile supplier says mastic the other cement.

Appreciate any thoughts - sorry for the long message

[John Bridge]

Hello,

I wonder if you'd give us a first name.

The louvers or the transom in the shower door may not allow the air flow of a regular shower, but air flow will certainly be improved. I think the exhaust fan outside the shower is a good idea.

I don't like the idea of Dens Shield. I think you are much better off using cement backer board and then waterproofing it with a membrane. Schluter Kerdi and Nobleseal are two good ones.

http://www.schluter.com

http://www.noblecompany.com

[verchoe]

I'm going with a transom window and a fan outside of my steam room (mostly due to John's suggestion). I recommend anyone interested in steamrooms check these guys out.
Just steambaths.com

Based on their experience, it seems John's intuition was right on. The sloped ceiling doesn't really do much. It seems the water takes forever to drop and when it does it clings to the edge of the tile where it hits the grout line and drops from the middle anyway. Maybe the slope would make sense if you had a perfectly flat ceiling (ie. slab, corian, fiberglass, etc)
Sloped ceilings

Based on their site and other research I made the following decisions:
Thermasol is my choice for a steam generator manufacturer because
1. Their better models have the soft steam option (Keeps slight amount of steam coming at 1/2 power instead of on/off/on/off/etc)
2. Their power flush is pressurized (I have hard water) and doesn't require a separate drain to be plumbed.
3. Their Thermasol Pro model is a good deal because it adds a drain pan, the autoflush option, preplumbed safety release valve, the 220V plug is prewired for you, and the water inlet connects with a flexible supply line they supply.
4. Their Elite control allows you to control both the time and the temperature. (Many others don't allow you to control the temp, they just have a default and let you control the time)

[John Bridge]

That's a really good web page, Edgar. I've book marked it and will post the link from time to time.

Hi, guys,

I am building a steam shower in my home. What do you think about hardy backer board? I'll use nobleseal TS on top of them, under the tiles. Did I understand right that I have to put red guard on the wooden framing?
What kind of tinnset is good to use?
About the vents: what do you think about installing NuTone vent ILF 120 in front of the door of a neo-angle shower?

Nicola