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Old 05-21-2003, 06:39 AM   #16
Uri
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Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Lithgow,NSW,Australia
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Crazing tiles

Hi everybody,
I have read the whole lot of answers. All of you are talking and it make sense. The only lot of crap, is from the manufacturer.
Crazing of tiles, occures when the coeficient of expansion of the body, is much lower as the COE of the glaze. As bigger the difference, the crazing is denser, with more hair line cracks into the glaze. Why? Because these differences develop high tensions and will brake the softer layer (glaze is softer then the body, so the glaze brakes). At any time, crazing is a manufacturer's fault, formulating the tile body with a too low COE. Is not such thing, "tiles suposed to craze".... bloody make them in a way, not to. The "ting-ting" heard opening the box, is definitly a crazing effect. This is just a biginning. The crazing in time, will accentuate and will look very bad, specially in the bathroom. All dust, dirt, mixed with the moisture from the bathroom, will cumulate in these cracks, making them very well visible. DON'T USE THESE TILES. NOT YOU HAVE TO PAY FOR AN INDEPENDENT OPINION! THE MANUFACTURER HAS...! Tell the manufacturer, you need only tiles, he may keep the music for himself.
Regarding red glazes, true, most of them are crazed, because the red glaze has a quite high COE, so would need a tile body with very high COE (too high for most clays) but is still a defect. Can be made red tiles which does not craze.
Sorry for my too strong approach, but I was angered by the manufacturer's unswer. Their technical manager seems to be a football player, who loves to see the ball in the other yard.
Best regards,
Uri
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Old 05-21-2003, 07:26 AM   #17
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Thanks, Uri. Don't be a stranger.

For those who don't know Uri, he is a tile manufacturer in the Sidney area. He is also a graduate ceramic engineer. His accent is Romanian/Israeli, Italian/Aussie English.
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Old 05-21-2003, 07:37 AM   #18
Uri
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Hi again,
I just forgot about the "tiles intended to craze".
I read the following: "In summary, if the tile you purchased is intended to craze and if the sounds you heard were only crazing taking place, then the sounds are not indicative of a problem. If the tile is not intended to craze, then it can be safely rejected on that basis.

Regards,

Eric Astrachan, Director of Technical Service"

With all my respect for a Technical Service Director, in my opinion, he is making a cofusion. "Intended to craze" as the Standard specifys it, refers to so called "cracle glazes". Tiles have a crazed glaze (deliberate crazing) filled with a metalic oxide or a ceramic colour, glazed over with a clear glaze (which does not craze) and fired again. The whole tile and its glaze over, is not crazed. It is crazed only an interior layer of glaze, sealed off with the glaze layer from above. And again with all my respect, I would think twice before saying that crazing does not effect the waterproofing properties of the tile... Mr. Astrachan is right in saying "is not a structural deffect... is not... is a manufacturing one.
John, thanks for stating that I don't do "crazy" tiles... Nice of you to protect a friend but, unfortunately it happens. The difference is that I replace them strait away with great appologies... even so, on my boxes, as on most of the manufacturers, is written that "crazing is a natural consecvence of these products". This sentence is meant for to deter people of claiming, but if they do, you have it and replace them.
Best to all

Uri
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Old 05-21-2003, 08:33 AM   #19
Uri
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Hi John,
You wrote: "His accent is Romanian/Israeli, Italian/Aussie English."
You forgot about my Hungarian, which is the main.
Bye bye,
Uri
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Old 05-21-2003, 09:06 AM   #20
flatfloor
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Thank you Uri, nice to hear from you again.

Once again JBS has drawn on it's world wide source of experts for the good of mankind.
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Old 05-21-2003, 06:40 PM   #21
John Bridge
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How could I forget the Hungarian?

I forgot to tell them about your other side trips as well.
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Old 05-24-2003, 09:30 PM   #22
novagreen
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After reading Uri's comments I went back to the tile store. They referred me to the vendor and he agreed that tile should not be making noises. If crazing is occurring now that would be a problem. He has never heard of this happening. The tile does have a "crackle" look to it and is fired twice as Uri talks about. I'm taking it back so he can look it over. So now I'm back to square one on tile - I still need my wife to pick a tile before I can start.

Now a question. I want to tile the ledge of a bay window. Because of the height of the window above the ledge I don't have enough space to install CBU under the tile. I can get a little relief going to 5/16" underlayment rather than the standard 1/2" CBU. The ledge is 60" long and and angles back to about 13" deep in the center and is made from stain grade plywood. Can I just lay thinset on the plywood and go from there?
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Old 05-24-2003, 09:57 PM   #23
Dog paws
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Robert, thanks for the interesting thread on crazing. I learned something hear....I think

On the bay window, you can go over 1/4 exterior glue plywood with Latex modified thinset. BTW, CBU also comes 1/4 thick.
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Old 05-25-2003, 09:53 AM   #24
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The plywood needs to be roughed up with a sander if it has lacquer on it.

Don't let anyone sit on it.
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