Mud Work Hints and Methods

[tilejoe]

As tile setters, we know how uneven concrete slabs can be. So, if they are uneven and screeded with a wood 1x...then the walls would be the same...

no worries, just a silly joke

[jwmezzanotte]

Originally Posted by tilejoe

As tile setters, we know how uneven concrete slabs can be. So, if they are uneven and screeded with a wood 1x...then the walls would be the same...

Hey now... my piece of 1x is pretty straight. I used my eyeball lazer to check it out
My slabs come out pretty flat...

Originally Posted by tilejoe

no worries, just a silly joke

Gotcha. I figured you were joking, just wasnt sure about what

[K_Tile]

Just curious....

1.5" thick of vertical mud over concrete walls.

How many lifts would you do and how would you bond each lift together and to the substrate?

[Davy]

Kevin, I've mudded walls up to 3 inches thick and just scratch coated the previous coat each time. I feel sorry for the guy that has to tear those out.

The sand needs to be about 1/8 pebbles and smaller. Learning to make your own mud will be best. You'll learn good mud from bad and what it needs to make it right.

With dry pack, a 1x4 will work great. It will also work with wall mud but a metal feather edge will cut the wall mud better.

[jwmezzanotte]

Have a weekend off, so I went downstairs to play.

I used premixed mortar mix from the local building supply. Next time I'll probably make my own, I just felt like taking the easy route this time.

I mocked up a 1/2 shower sorta. On the 5ft wall I used two layers of paper and then lath, I want try two coats on that one. If this were a real shower, I would be coating it with Aquadefense, so would that be acceptable? Or should I use something else behind the lath?

On the 3ft wall I used a scrap of drywall I had laying around, and just put the lath right over top. Want to try one coat on this wall. Would that be acceptable for a shower if covered with Aquadefense?

I didnt feel like cutting lath, so I just stoped the mud where the lath sheets ended. Its just a mock up so good enough.
Brings me to my first question.
How do you deal with the edges of the mud?
On the vertical edges of the shower, do you just cut the lath to fit exactly where you want it to end and then square the mud off there?

On the 3ft wall I put my float strip pretty close to the edge, I'm thinking this was probably a mistake now that I look at it. Would having it that close make it more likely to break up the mud when I try to pull it out. (I'm about to go find out) How far in from the sides should you place the float strips?

How thick should the mud be? I built this wall out of plumb on purpose to see if I could fix it with the mud (likely story..)
The top of the wall is the thinnest, I pressed the float strip right in against the lath and its about 1/2 inch in that area. The bottom of the wall is 3/4 inch.

Heres some pics.
going to go screed it off now...

[jwmezzanotte]

Btw,
I have about 4hrs into this so far, not including framing up that crappy "wall"
And below is a pic of the amount of mud I dropped on the floor.
I left it until I was finished just to see how much I ended up with.

Is that good/bad/average for a newb?
Am I gonna get fired?

[tilelayer]

John,

looks good ! Ill answer a few questions, where the mud stops I pack out my walls (surrounding) 1" total so the mud lies flush with them, this way it doesn't even look like a mud job, I also make sure that edge is dead plumb, then I only need to set one float strip on the walls where I have them packed out, I know my drywall is plumb so I use it like a float strip. On back walls in showers you can make them as thick as you want, usually 3/4" to 1". You dropped a fair amount of mud but as you build the skill you wont drop much, I only drop it when I am trying to hit corners or odd spots. Also when mudding walls I start at the top and work my way to the bottom since I drop some I press it into the bottom. Hope this helps.

[jwmezzanotte]

Screeded it off.

Gave up on the wood 1x4 right away, and switched to a metal straightedge (old I-beam level I had laying around). The wood was pulling the mud and peeling it off the wall. Once I switched to the metal I was ok.
Is this a sign that the mud was still to wet to screed?
How long should I leave it (I know it depends on temp/humidity etc, but ballpark?)

Float strips came out no problem. cut the sides of them with my margin trowel and gently pulled them out. Didnt break anything anywhere.
I can still easily poke my finger into the mud though, should I have left it longer?

Checked it out with the level nice and flat and plumb!

How long should I wait to fill in where the strips were? I mean how firm should the mud be? I'm assuming that if I get on it too soon I'll just mess things up...

Thanks,
I'm actually enjoying this. Probably a lot more than I'm going to enjoy tearing that wall down when I'm done...

[jwmezzanotte]

thanks Derrick

So if I'm understanding you correctly, you use two layers of drywall on the rest of the room to make it 1" and match the thickness of mud over 1 layer of drywall?

couple more questions,

What do I do with the first coat on the 5' wall? Do I need to roughen it up a lot for the second coat to stick, or would just rubbing it with a broom be enough?
When can I put the second coat up? Can it be done in the same day, or do you have to wait overnight?

[jwmezzanotte]

nothin?

so just keep wingin it then?

[Hamilton]

Lookin good John I drop mud, and never stop to worry about it. I just make a habit of picking it up and putting it on the wall, usually the lower 12" while its still fresh. Glad you tossed out the wood edge, that there is REALLY old school lol. Metal edges are the way to go. You want to fill your strip holes immediately after pulling the strips. Fresh mud will bond better to fresh mud no? Congrats on your mock up. Makes a guy like me proud to know others care enough to at least give it a try. Keep after it.

[Davy]

Yep, nice wall. I usually will let the wall set an hour before filling the screeds. That's enough time for the wall to firm up just a little.

The first layer is called a scratch coat. It needs to be roughed up so the next layer will grab onto it. I usually take a piece of lath about 5"x 5" and rake it with the jagged edge to rough it up. I have a pic somewhere I'll find of the lower section of the shower scratched out.

You need to take the lath down to within an inch of the floor. Holding it up off the floor like you have in the pics will give you trouble. I scratch the bottom of my showers the day before I mud the walls. I also build my seat the same day I scratch. Since I can't nail the bottom of the walls, the bricks will hold the mud and lath tight to the wall till the next day.

[jwmezzanotte]

Thanks a lot for the responses!

Originally Posted by Hamilton

I drop mud, and never stop to worry about it. I just make a habit of picking it up and putting it on the wall, usually the lower 12" while its still fresh

I usually pick it up. I just wanted to see just how much I ended up dropping. Wasnt as bad as I expected

Originally Posted by Hamilton

You want to fill your strip holes immediately after pulling the strips. Fresh mud will bond better to fresh mud no? Congrats on your mock up. Makes a guy like me proud to know others care enough to at least give it a try.

I think it was about half hour before I filled the strips.

Originally Posted by Davy

I usually take a piece of lath about 5"x 5" and rake it with the jagged edge to rough it up.

Happens to be just what I did

Originally Posted by Davy

You need to take the lath down to within an inch of the floor. Holding it up off the floor like you have in the pics will give you trouble.

Yuppers!
I just left it like that because It was just a mock up, I didnt even cut any of the lath. Thats why its so low from the ceiling as well. I was just trying to see if I would be able to get decent results with mud before I just "wing it" at a customers house. Feeling pretty good about it. (not good enough to charge for it yet)
I havent had time to get back to doing the second coat on the 5ft wall (brown coat? is that the term?)
Do I need to use any bonding agent, or just SSD?

It occured to me a while back that I dont really "need" to know how to work with mud. There are plent of products out there that work just as well as mud..... Thats what I used to think
Totally impressed about how flat and plumb this came out, especially since it was my first go. I have done a bit of stucco work in the past, which helped a bit.
I'm going to be doing a shower for a friend in the near future. Its gonna be a mud shower (with AquaD)
I think once I get a few under my belt I could be pretty competitive with the cost/time of installing CBU.

Still wondering about that though. Does it matter what is under the mud if i'm using a surface waterproofing like Aquadefense? Would going right over the drywall like that be okay or should I be putting paper up as well? (wouldnt really add much time or $ to the job... so am I answering my own question? )

Thanks all

[jwmezzanotte]

Originally Posted by Davy

I scratch the bottom of my showers the day before I mud the walls.

Are you just doing one coat over drywall, or are you doing two coats in one day (other than the scratch at the bottom)? Or am I reading that wrong?

Originally Posted by Davy

Since I can't nail the bottom of the walls, the bricks will hold the mud and lath tight to the wall till the next day.

I have yet to do a pan with a liner. I'm gonna have to do one someday if only just to say I've done it. I'll remember that tip with the bricks.

[Hammy]

John, ( jwmezzanotte ) I have followed your comments here ( and the whole thread ) But I want to thank you typing your comments into separate paragraphs.

It makes the whole process much easier to read and follow.

Just thought I'd throw that out.

Hammy