Grout wicking water over tub and down to floor!
 

I need some serious help. I am a remodeling contractor who does occasional tile work. I'm just about ready to wrap up a pretty expensive tub/shower surround in my own home but have noticed an apparent problem with water wicking through my grout.

Here's the background: The tub is a drop in, built in ledge on two sides for shampoos, etc. Walls are greenboard over framing, black paper, bituthane lapping onto tub, 1/2" cement board, 6x12 ceramic tile first three feet followed by 4x4 glass tile, mosaic liner, etc. I have not finished the face of the tub deck yet and won't until I install the hardwood flooring. The face will be 1" glass mosaic.

Hence the problem: Apparently water is soaking into the grout and even though it is not allowed to puddle anywhere near the front corner of the tub, it appears to be wicking up and over the quarter round grout line and then down onto the subfloor. What's alarming is that it is a substantial amount of water. I hope that once I tile the cement board on the face of the tub deck, the additional grout will displace the water before it hits the floor but with a wood floor I can't take that chance.

A long time tile mason that I frequently sub-contract work to tells me that grout sealer is only meant to repel stains and will never totally waterproof the grout. I have already applied two liberal coats of tile-lab pentrating sealer prior to using the shower for the first time and for that product at least, what he tells me seems accurate. The grout in most contact with water definitely darkens, and I can use that to easily trace the path of water down to my sub-floor. Arghh! I need help, is there a grout sealer that would create an impenetrable seal or not? Any other thoughts?

Thanks a bunch you guys, happy to answer your remodel questions any time!

Hello,

The smartest thing to do is agree with your mason friend and instead find out why the water is getting out of the tub.

1) The obvious questions. What type of shower curtain is in use? Is it inside the tub while the shower is on?

2) Could there be a leak under the tub, at the drain or in the plumbing?

Let's start there.

:)

PS Several of us are remodeling contractors as well, it will be nice to compare notes.
:)

In my experience it is near impossible to keep that part of any tub from seeing water. In most cases when the shower is used water will hit that corner and then down the face of the tub.

I really don't think it just a wicking issue. Unfortunately, I don't know of any way to prevent that either except by adding a door. That would be a waste considering your choice of tile..

Jason

Hi Hague, Welcome! :)

Can we start off on the right foot here? My name is John - yours?

I see a few issues here.

#1 - Drop in tub. Is it perfectly level? Does water accumulate in any of the corners (particularly the one leaking)?

#2 - Didn't observe any caulk on the perimeter corners (less likely to absorb moisture - but will need to be recauked over time).

#3 - Tile Lab hasn't had a good track record as a good sealer around here. :(

#4 - Is the ledge at front of tub waterproofed underneath, and tilted toward tub?

I have a couple questions for ya. What is under the 1x1's at the edge of the tub? Did the tub have lip along that side? The area of 1x1's and q-round should have about 1/8 pitch to help keep the water in, of course like Jason said it's an area that catches alot of water and even a pitch on it might not keep it all in.

Guys, thanks for the great responses. Thank you for the welcome John, my name is Mike. When there's another Mike around i'm "Big Mike" for reasons you could guess.

I really wish it were an issue of not getting good protection from the shower curtain but I wrapped it around the corner snugly and during my troubleshooting I folded up a towel in that corner of the tub during a shower. After the shower the towel and that corner were dry. The grout however, as shown in the close up picture becomes wet and water starts to drip down the cement board. I know there are no plumbing leaks as we've been using the tub for baths prior to tiling and never saw any leaking until shower time.

The tub is set level, and under the 1" tiles is cement board set over bituthane which is lapped onto the tub but not at a pitch to the tub. Dooh!! I really don't want to pull these tiles back off and re-do everything. :cry: :bang:

I really think the water is wicking over the tub. We've started toweling the tile down after showering, especially the ledge in back, which is pitched to the tub by the way, :cool: but maybe some resealing is in order, could everyone recomend the best performer?

You think clear silicone caulk would be a good idea around the tub/tile intersection?

Thanks again!

Hi Mike :)

The ST Heavy Duty Stone Sealer is highly recommended for grout. Here's a link http://www.tileyourworld.com/catalog...products_id=50

The clear silicone for perimeter corners is a great idea IMO. :)

Welcome Big Mike, I was wondering if there was a lip along the edge of the tub. If not, could water be running between the bituthane and CBU and toward the outside? Silicone along that edge just might do it. :)

John, I will try the Stone Tech sealer, I see that I can but it locally from my tile distributor. Is it possible to get the grout completely water tight?

Thanks Davy, no lip on the tub edge, Maybe i'll give the silicone a go if I can't manage to get a good seal another way. If I do it will be very sparingly.

Again I really appreciate it, I don't want to see a beautiful cinnamon maple floor buckle under my feet.
Thanks

Are you sure that the pipe that goes up to the showerhead isn't leaking??
You wouldn't get any water from it during a bath, but you would during a shower.

Just a thought.

Glass tile, could that have something to do with it? There have been discussions re bonding with them.

Welcome, Mike. :)

I'd like to see you test that area with water from a source other than the shower plumbing, too. Like from a can so's you can slowly and carefully pour some on the edge of the tub there in that suspect corner and watch to see where the wet spot goes. A fella would wanna do this when everything was completely dry, of course.

I just can't imagine that piece of masonary wicking that much water up over the edge like that. We all know the mud and grout will wick water, but not to that extent. I think Davy might be onto something with the water actually going under the tile cap there.

And no, the StoneTech product won't guarantee to make your grout water tight, either. It'll do a far better job than the stuff you were using, but water is still gonna get in there if it's wicking up under the tile and grout.

Please do let us know how this turns out.

My opinion; worth price charged.

Well gentlemen, there is some serious experience in this forum, I came to the right place. I got schooled today in more than one way.

I got a chance to observe the problem today while my wife took a shower and after ten minutes I noticed something I didn't expect, water started to drip down the tar paper at the subfloor behind the cbu. On close inspection I did notice some micro fractures in the grout at tub level but after pouring water directly over them for a while, got no additional leak. Decided to move up and see if water was getting behind the chrome plate of the controls. I saw a lot more moisture than I expected and after pressurizing the shower I learned that there was a whole other shower going on inside the wall cavity.

After fifteen years, hundreds of solder joints without a leak, the run is over.
I never pressurized the transfer valve and shower lines before I covered the walls and sure enough, I shorted the solder on the port leading to my hand shower. The good news is that I was able to remove a 12" square of drywall between the upper and lower cabinets in my kitchen and re-sweat the joint.

You guys nailed it and I really appreciate your assistance. This is a great forum and I hope this will help someone else somehow.

Drying out,
Mike Hague

Good on you, Mike. :)

I'm 20 years in the building/remodeling bidness and at least 40 in the soldering and welding game and I still don't never cover up plumbing without a leak test. :D

Glad you got it fixed!

Hey Mark and CX - Great call! :)

Even us non-pros get one right once in awhile! :)

Not moi, John. Looks like Steven drew first blood, actually. :)

Ah, yes, Steven's got this one hands down! :D :fim: (Had to check the instant replay!)