Fant's Shower
 

I am starting a new bathroom project this weekend. We are converting an office into a bathroom and a laundry room. We are going to rip out everything down to the studs. Should be interesting to see what we find. The house was build around 1893. My wife is getting a jetted tub and I get a new shower. The current plan is to have the tub and shower share a wall and make the wall out of glass block. I have looked through a lot of the liberry stuff and done some searching as well. One thing I can't quite figure out, but may have just missed is what does the foundation for the glass wall look like. Or said another way, what do you put the first run of blocks on. If they go all the way to the floor, then how do you get the 1/8 space for the liner. I have attached a bmp drawing of the general shape of the shower. Wall C and D will be the glass block wall. The size of the shower is planned at 32w x 44d. Also wonder if the angle in the corner is going to make life harder. Also are corner dams only used on each side of the shower curb. That is how it appears to me but I want to verify that I am not confused (no that point). We are planning on taking our time to get this done so we can spend a little extra on better fixtures etc. From what I have seen so far you guys will help make this a lot easier.

Also is there a table of contents posted anywhere for John's book?
Name here is Fant. We are in Rochester, MN

Welcome, Fant!

The base of the block walls is just like a curb. You build it up with 2x4s, lay your liner over it, then lathe and mud it.

The dam corners are used at the ends of the curb where it abutts the wall. You may also use them at other corners, though it takes some creative geometry to figure out how. For the 45 corners, you can manipulate the liner with folds and some stretching (a heat gun helps). There are some pictures in the shower construction thread in the Liberry.

Just an update - Got the book
 

Well, I got John's book and have read it once and now starting back again for the second time (it is fine work and very helpful, thanks John). I am leaning towards the Kerdi system with a mud floor. The design of the bathroom seems to be changing a bit. The good news is that most everything is torn out and new insulation is installed. I added 2x3s to the existing 2x4 ext. walls and put in r-21 fiberglass. I still need to reframe a window. The existing window is coming out and replaced with a 4 ft. wide glass block window centered on the bathtub.

Is there a "normal" height to tile the back splash around the tub? The shower is seperate from the tub. I would like to put a nitch in the wall around the tub so I guess that will help determine the height.

One last question for now. The current room that is to become the bathroom has hardwood floors. My wife would like to keep the hardwood floor. I know wood and water don't really mix all that well, but I would like opinions from y'all. (btw, I grew up a little ways south of MN). I hoping talking about wood won't get me kicked off the tile board :)

Thanks

Good Morning Fant,
Hows things in Rochester?? My brothers just up the road from you in Pine Island ;)
Wood floors-People do it all the time,in fact i'm building a new shower right now and a new unfinished floor is coming in right behind me.(i told him if got it in before i grouted everything he'd be grouting it himself ;) )
Nice to see another Minnesotan find this site on occassion :)

Hi Fant and welcome,

Many manufacturers of glass block have great installation drawings on their website.

The biggest thing to remember is that you don't cut glass block. If you are using 8" block that means the block and a grout joint equals 8.

Making a 45 degree turn involves special pieces. You also need to talk to your glass door person to see if you need to frame an opening or whether they can attach to the joints between the block and you use end pieces.

Again, with a shower using a glass block wall start your planning with the glass block.

Good luck.

Thanks for buying (and reading) the book, Fant. ;)

I would suggest building a knee wall up to just above where the tub comes in and then continuing on from there with the glass blocks. There is no good way to do by running the blocks down to the floor.

You also have to know that there is no really good way to attach a glass enclosure to a glass block wall, so I might suggest running a tiled column up on the front and designing the glass block work to look more like a window.

If you want a niche in the tub area you might as well tile is up to the same height as the shower, and you might as well put a shower head in the tub area. That's only if the tub goes to the studs like a regular tub. If it sits out on a deck, I take it back. :)

Design change and Hardwood floor removal
 

Well, the demo is close to being complete. One of the last steps was removing the carpet that covered the hardwood floor. Of course in a 100 year old house you are bound to find a couple of surprises. In this case I found that the existing hardwood floor has some water damage from an old leak in the existing bathroom. So my plan is to remove the existing hardwood floor and reuse it in the new bathroom. The new bath will have a 6 ft jetted jacuuzzi and the 3' x 5' shower (**design change**), in addition to the toliet and vanity. The exposed floor is going to be around 20 sq. ft. max. I also plan to add an additional layer of subfloor if needed. The existing subfloor appears to be hardwood planks as well.
A little :topicoff: So the question of the day is: anybody have tips on removing the hardwood floor without destorying it. I asked on a hardwood floor forum and did not get much in the way of tips. I am also planning on putting a tile floor in a 3'x3' section where the toliet is going to be located (just in case of overflow. Going with a Toto Drake so I don't expect any overflows, but plan to be prepared anyway).

You can likely reuse it if you are willing to go through the work of Trimming,surface planing or sanding and redoing the T&G in a shaper or on a good router setup.
Do you know anybody thats a woodworker??

Hi all.
Well move over you guys. How do they do it in the U.S.?
I'm buggered if I know.
I have had some success in designing my own bullnosing machine which has been a bonus of late.
The current project is large. For me and my partner it's very big.
1385 sq mtr home. 5 bath, powder room, 5 toilets, 2 laundries all with 13'6'' tile heights. My partner and I shat it in. And 898sq mtrs of porcellain flooring went well. The crystal pool that I have (almost) completed is so good I spend time gazing at it. It is just so beautiful. Black grout and laser lights.
But, just because I not a christian and the power is not on my side and because we live in Australia, I mean Western Australia , we expect and allow one **** up allowed per job. Actually that is our work motto....... but you see up until now there has been no **** ups.
The problem: This dwelling has 3 domed windows. Cedar framed, fixed pane at the top that is to be mitred on all edges. The problem is the marble powder room and the porcellain bathroom. I was lucky enough to score one out of three that was mosaics. It turned out fine.
My bullnosing machine is simply a grinder on a slide rail that can rotate 1/4 turn. It works well with a new blade and the finish is excellent. But you get wet. It spits shit everywhere.
Fill my head with all the knowledge you guys are famous for on how to bull nose marble and porcellain. Ceramic, slate, granite I seem to have mastered.
I want a chip free finish that I can polish off.
Ther must be such a machine that is portable accurate and efficient somewhere on the planet.

The real reason I want zero **** ups on this particular job is I have a bet with my partner for 10 beers.

Cheers.
By the way, winter is coming.

Howdy Slack, :)

There are two ways to go. You can buy the diamond profiling wheel for your tile saw, or you can buy a wet router with a piloted round-over bit, diamond of course. The profiling wheel for the tile saw will be the cheapest at about $250 Australian (unless you changed the rates). :) Ther router set-up will go about $800 I would imagine.

Looks like the hardwood is going to go after all
 

Well I spent the afternoon and evening attempting to remove the hardwood in some sort of shape that would allow it to be reused with some additional work. :bang: It looks like right now I either need a better technique or something else. I now just hope to salvage enough from the area where the shower and tub are going to patch one area in what will become the laundry room. So now we are doing tile floor in the bathroom. Since we are doing tile now we want to do a in floor heater as well. Will that be OK on top of the hardwood.

The hardwood appears to ok from a structural point of view, but is discolored from the water damage and it looks like it goes too deep to sand. There are a couple of little ripples, no more than 1/32 (best guess) and a couple of small gaps of about the same size. There are not any large voids. The subfloor (under the hardwood floor) is also made of 1x6 plank set on a diagonal as compared to the floor joists. Joist are 2x8 - 16" oc. span about 12-14 feet.

So the question now is what needs to go over the hardwood :cry:. To keep the height down I am thinking of ditra on the hardwood, then the floor heat, and then the tile. From the reading I have done I think I am on the right track, but want to make sure. I figure the thinset can even out any of the ripples.

I should also introduce my wife (she gets the Jacuzzi, I get the shower). Her name is Lorraine. She is very bummed about the hardwood.

You have to put some plywood over the hardwood befor you install any other underlayment. 3/8" is the minimum thickness.

If you really need to keep the height down, you need to rip out the hardwood. Since you've decided to cover it with the tile and you aren't trying to salvage every bit of it, use any means necessary to get it out of there. Try setting a circular saw to the thickness of the boards and cutting the floor into 3 foot sections, then using a crow bar to pry them out.

With the hardwood out of the way, put down 1/2" plywood, 1/4" backerboard, your in-floor heater mat, and then your tile. You floor will be about as low as you had planned with the Ditra over hardwood, but will be an approved installation.

wonder bar!
 

Fant,
you need to try some different pry bars. I use a 'wonderbar' ask at a traditional lumberyard, they should know what that means, homedepot boy most likely will give you a puzzled look!. you need to pry carefully & slowly, old wood is brittle! slowly pry an entire floor lenght strip up evenly.
pull some flooring up and start at the grooved side- my opinion!
as for sanding, with a drum sander you can really hog out the material! I'm sure you can really 'reduce' the water markings.

jim

valve placement and wall structure question
 

Well, I have been thinking more about the floor plan of the new bathroom. The good news is that nothing is set in stone (or tile) yet, so making changes is still easy. I have gotten some blue painter's tape and have laid the plan out on the floor. I have several design programs, but there is no substitute for laying it out and trying to walk through it.
So I have found that the shower will have to be 3w x 4l with the entry at the back rather than the side. Two of the walls of the shower are exterior walls. The wall where it makes the most sense to put the plumbing valves is one of these exterior walls; no easy access after everything is complete. I like to put the plumbing on an interior wall where I can put an access panel. I also need to make the 6 ft bathtub and the 3 ft. wide shower fit on a 9 ft 3 inch long wall. I can steal some space from the old bathroom (the wall is already moving 1 foot to make the 8'3" wall 9'3") that is going to become a pantry when all is finished, but want to keep the pantry as large as I can.
So the first question is: Can I make the wall between shower and tub out of 2x4s turned sideways so the wall ends up being 2” wide rather than 4”? I plan on tiling both sides. Is this ok from a structural standpoint?
The second question is: Do I need to worry about access from the back of the values. We got Moen valves and they are the high end stuff.

How about access panels in the shower held with the magnets and caulked. I have seen examples on the site, but don't know about in a wet area.

You can make walls any way you want to as long as they are stiff. :)

Glass Block Window system
 

Has anyone used the Pittsburgh Corning - KWIK'N EZ Rigid Track Silicone System for doing a glass block window. I am doing a 5 x 5 window. It will use the 3" thinline block. It is an all silicone method.
The window will be above the bathtub. The tub is a tub only, no shower in it.

I myself don't care for the silicone look,but it's probably quicker,and much easier. :)

What about reliability or problems
 

Aside from the look, are there any known problems out there?

I don't know,but i'd be curious to know if there is a height or course limit on that installation,i can't remember seeing an install of any size, other than small decorative ones. :)

Their documentation says: Interior walls up to 85 sq. ft, Exterior walls up to 25 sq. ft.
We are planning about 14 sq. ft.

Sounds good. :)

The new floorplan (take 2) Need plumbing advice
 

Here is the new floorplan. The blue walls are exterior. The red blocks are where the plumbing fittings are planned to go. Green is the glass block window.

Any problems with the shower head and handheld placement in the shower? Ideas for making it better. I will have access to the main valve from the laundry room. I plan to run the pipes to the shower head and handheld unit in a drop down ceiling over the shower. It worries me that there is no access to the shower head and handheld fittings in the wall after the shower wall goes in. Also the fittings and short runs of pipe being in the external wall worries me a as well. The walls are about R-21.

We got Moen valves and they are the high end kind.

How about access panels in the shower held with the magnets and caulked. I have seen examples on the site, but don't know about in a wet area.

The access to shower valves is through the opening that is left around them. The entire thing can be rebuilt without disturbing the tiles. That's the only access you need.

Shower towards Door
 

It's better not to have the shower head pointed at a door. When you reach in to turn on the valve are you going to get a blast of cold in your face and on the floor? It's a challenge for a door to hold against direct pressure from a head.
We seldom need to get to modern piping once it is installed. I can't see a value for access openings. As John states we can get to the valve from the front. Protection from freezing can be achieved by having the pipes on the inside of the insulation. You might also consider body sprays. People are really liking them.
The TOTO Drake is a good decision.

Successful Technique for Removing a Hardwood Floor
 

Well I got to the point where I was going to rip up the hardwood floor in preparation for doing the new sub floor and tile install. I figured I would give the controlled removal for reuse approach one more try. I decided to try a reciprocating saw with a 12 inch “wood with embedded nail” demolition blade to cut the nails from underneath. Well it turns out that this technique seems to be working very well. So it looks like Lorraine will get the "old style" hardwood floor in the bathroom after all. (I love it when I plan comes together).

So here is the technique:

The first thing I did was cut out a piece with a circular saw set to ¾” depth. This provided access to the tongue side where the nails are driven in. Next I examined the exposed tongue and located the nails that attached the piece to the floor. I then used the reciprocating saw to cut underneath the wood floor at each nail. I then used a small pry bar to gently lift and pull the piece of floor out of the tongue of the next board. I also had to put a fan in the window and open another window to suck the fumes from the tar paper out of the room. Working slowly and carefully I was able to remove the first 10 sq. ft. without ruining any of the floor boards.

I found part of a magazine being used under the floor as a shim. It appears that the floor was installed some time after 1944. I found a copyright on an ad dated 1944 and a recipe for turkey stuffing so my guess is Oct / Nov. 1944. There was one ad from Reo Motors for a Reo Speedwagon. (Who knew they weren’t just a band :) ) It says “Ask your Reo dealer about the government release of a limited quota of the new Reo trucks for civilian use.”

Here is a picture of the tools to give you an idea. My reciprocating saw is a very old 40’s or 50’s Black and Decker HD Saber Saw.

Need Recommendation for Kneepads
 

So as I started removing the floor I suddenly realized that a good pair of kneepads would be a really good idea. When I searched the site I also found Lady Godiva’s thread and that made me think it was an even better idea. So I am looking for suggestions on brands etc. I have a Home Depot and Menards here in town. I don’t mind going elsewhere but It here is something that folks recommend at one of these places that would be great. I am a big guy so heavy duty is a must. :bow:

I have knee problems and have to have good support and cushion. After trying two or three different knee pads I bought some McGuire-Nicholas Stabilizer Gel Kneepads at HD (Store SKU# 546585). I've been very happy and my knees haven't given me any problems so far.

I know there are some deluxe kneepads that the pros use with a big price tag. I think these cost about $30.

Fant,

Try some knee pads on. I wouldn't spend a lot of money if I were you.

Also, I would enshrine that saw. It's so old I would be afraid of messing it up. It needs to be in the tool hall of fame or something. ;)

Resize the Shower
 

Based on Lonney's comments about the door location I have resized the shower and changed the door to a side entry 24" opening in the plan. So now the shower is 36" x 60". So how does this look now?

I'd Use It
 

I have no further comment.

Still working on it
 

Well it has been a while. Kind of got side tracked on the project. I've had a few other things popping up. I am about to get back to it. It looks like we are going to change the design and do a combination Tub / Shower. It will allow for a little more room and not require moving any walls. Looking forward to getting back to it and being back on the board. I am thinking about a Kerdi backed tile surround for the tub.
Thanks for still beening here.