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Davestone
02-19-2012, 07:21 AM
I am reading the book called "The Resolution for Men", and I would like you to read just a small passage from this book.




"Because teen years are often wasted and fathers have become silent, this generation of young men doesn't know why they are here or what God has called them to become. So they wander into the future, drown themselves in entertainment, and live for the weekend rather than for eternity. Rather than being responsible men of their word, they are noncommittal and dependent upon their mothers. Rather than excelling and leading like previous generations, they are passively watching women their age surpass them in the classroom and in the marketplace. Rather than initiating serious conversations with wiser men, they goof off with fools in sports bars. Their identities are wrapped up in pleasing themselves and wasting their time, not bettering society and training up the next generation.
They then carry this over into their families. Sometimes it's a thirty-year-old man who won't stop playing video games to read to his children. Or a forty-year-old dad who won't talk with his hurting teenage daughter because it would take away from a playoff game. Or a father who won't go to church with his family because he stayed up too late watching television shows that only reinforce his immaturity.
Too many men want the freedoms, rewards and privileges of manhood but only the responsibilities of boyhood. They want intimacy with their wives without loving them as God instructed. They want to be respected by their kids without investing time and discipline in them. They want a higher status at work without raising their own level of honor and integrity.
But if we want to be men, we must resolve that "we will no longer be immature like children. We won't be tossed and blown about by every wind of new teaching

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Scout123
02-19-2012, 07:58 AM
Thanks Dave, every generation has a segment of that. Maybe the percentages are just changing.

I heard my parents say that and their parents said it too. Scout

eurob
02-19-2012, 08:02 AM
Rather than excelling and leading like previous generations, they are passively watching women their age surpass them in the classroom and in the marketplace. Rather than initiating serious conversations with wiser men, they goof off with fools in sports bars. Their identities are wrapped up in pleasing themselves and wasting their time, not bettering society and training up the next generation.



Dave,

I think the most men leading today like it and use their '' leading '' at their advantage --- marketing , '' trainning '' , '' looking for weaker persons '' , etc. --- , instead of having an equal next to them . Competition is one of the most turn offs and men in today configuration are paying the price . I think men are a more fair competition than women , especially in between themselves .

To be fair , men respond with a defensive or aggresive atitude , even if you are only trying to exchange opinions.

'' Not bettering and training up the next generation '' , That's something I try to do every day and have to disagree with , but no one is listening . Eventually I will give up ...... maybe not .:D

Scout123
02-19-2012, 08:25 AM
Women are getting really tired of that aggressive (shut um down) behavior when exchanging opinions with men.

I am on several male dominated sites. I am also on a female dominated site. Men are sarcastic with one another and are into just the facts. They like to poke each other and be down right cruel. A lot of oneupmanship. It's exciting for men to banter with one another. Most women just want to do what they love and talk about it and have a pleasant atmosphere of learning and giving. I don't think it is necessary to be ugly. Standing up is one thing... shutting um down is another!!! Scout

java
02-19-2012, 08:40 AM
Scout, can you go look at pictures of pretty tiles or something? Us men are trying to have a discussion.

Katwyk tile
02-19-2012, 08:42 AM
Dang Dave, I was up late last night drawing a design for a up and coming master bath. I have 11 and 9 year old daughters that I knew I should have been playing games with instead. As my wife is getting ready to go to church I logged on to get lost in this forum that I so much enjoy. You now throw out some off the best words I've read here. I'm now going to get ready for church and try to stay engaged 100% with my family today. Thanks again for the post. I'll be off for awhile

eurob
02-19-2012, 08:47 AM
Scout ,

Am I feeling some rant in your post ?

Most women just want to do what they love and talk about it and have a pleasant atmosphere of learning and giving

Isn't it why women rise up ? But I would say women take only the direct road , regardless of others -- feelings , opinions , interests -- , just to obtein that goal.:)

Scout123
02-19-2012, 08:59 AM
Jason, I'll assume you were just joking as I can't believe anyone would say something so stupid! I make a good living doing "pretty" tiles. And I don't have to be on my knees!!! :rolleyes:

No rant, I would say it probably depends on the person and their social skills. Men and women are just different. They approach things differently. I like to be aware of others and their feelings and opinions, but you are right, I use my own head in the end.

I don't need anything to rise up. I don't do things because I am spited into it. I do them for the satisfaction of a job well done! I run on faith. Faith in myself, and I appreciate any advice given. Scout

Ceci
02-19-2012, 09:01 AM
Isn't it why women rise up ? But I would say women take only the direct road , regardless of others -- feelings , opinions , interests -- , just to obtein that goal.

Maybe risen too much, too strong, in some ways and men, not saying all for sure, seem to be OK with it in some ways since less for them to do.

Editing: Ohoh, Jason is in trouble. Yes, Scout, he was joking. Funny man, no?

Ceci

tilerite
02-19-2012, 09:11 AM
A few years ago, I may have said the same thing about my oldest daughters boyfriend after yet another breakup. After that last breakup, Natalie was prepared to move on with her life and the raising of her son (4 at the time). My wife and I had also accepted that Natalie and Christian would likely be moving back home and in the back of our minds, we knew that being a single parent could make it harder for her to find that special person to share her life with.
In the time since, a funny thing happened. Kyle, having witnessed the demise of his parents relationship while at the same time having observed the closeness and dedication of his girlfriends own parents not too mention the close bond he had formed with my grandson, realized that what he really wanted in life, he already had and that he was really running away from himself.
Natalie, having been hurt before, put a shield up and did her best to move on with her life. Kyle was relentless. The texts, the calls, the words from his mouth declaring his undying love and his promise to change. They hung out on occasion, supposedly as friends. The hang-outs turned into sleepovers and the sleepovers became more frequent. In time, Kyle and Natalie were back together and living in the condo they had been sharing.
Julie and I had her reservations. We were cautiously happy for Natalie and Christian but we were not convinced that Kyle had really changed. Only time would prove whether his words were from the heart or just cheap talk.
That was two years ago. Today, Natalie and Kyle are in the final stages of planning their wedding which will take place in June. Two weeks ago, they purchased a home just three short streets over in the development where we live. Kyle is in his final year of college, will graduate in December and also works 30 hours a week at a local eating establishment so that they can share the American dream.
He treats my daughter with love and respect and has become a father figure to my grandson. Julie and I greatly look forward to the weekends when they come over for meals, to watch ballgames and to enjoy the hot tub. Julie and I could not be prouder of our daughter for the life she is carving out for herself and for her fiance who has become a man's man.
Obviously, this book has not been completed. Many more chapters have yet to be written. Marriage (and life) is a work in process. There are always negative influences that tug at you. We know that anything can happen with Natalie and Kyle but to get to this point from where we were two short years ago, we feel we have traveled light years.
Kyle has told us on more than one occasion that we (Jul and I) and our 31 years together are a big influence on him and that he does not ever want to put his family through what he himself went through with his own parents failed relationship. That makes us feel good about the future.
Let this story serve as hope for the rest of us.:)

tilejoe
02-19-2012, 09:12 AM
What's interesting, is that we assume past generations Of men "had it together". let's think about this. What part did they have together? Were past generations much different in being distracted? Or just distracted differently? How involved were men in the raising of a family outside being a bread winner? Were men strong enough to be motherly to their children? To be tender, compassionate, to be involved? Drinking and bars, brothels, prostitution and adultery have been around as long as written word. Distractions will always be present.

java
02-19-2012, 09:26 AM
:postitbg:

Scout123
02-19-2012, 09:35 AM
I don't know about your Dad but mine was totally self centered and abusive. I thought that was normal back then... maybe it was. Scout

Levi the Tile Guy
02-19-2012, 09:37 AM
I for one really like the passage thanks Stoner

MudMaker
02-19-2012, 09:40 AM
I thought it was funny... Scout.. you have to learn the humor on this here board....:shades:



Oh... and what Female Dominated site do you speak of.. eh?...:stick:

Me too Levi...

Ceci
02-19-2012, 09:44 AM
I thought it was funny... Scout.. you have to learn the humor on this here board....

Maybe not really about learning the humor, but learning that this site has mostly very good men, not men like her dad, my dad. Understand, Paquito?

Ceci

MudMaker
02-19-2012, 09:49 AM
Yo entendiendo.........:nod:

Scout123
02-19-2012, 09:58 AM
I hear you MudMaker! I come from a forum of almost all men who are just ugly with one another and it gets old. I knew he was joking, that's why I felt free to mess back with him. Maybe some seriousness because that does happen. Someone at a party last week said something about me getting a real job. :shades:

Female dominated site is for Watercolors. If you are interested, I'll give you the address. But i guess you are just messing with me too :nod:

I liked the passage too. I was just discussing it.

Actually, I like it here, it's not like the sculpture forum I am on. You guys really help each other! They compete. Scout

java
02-19-2012, 10:01 AM
Yeah, I was just funning ya Scout. Thought I would get a HA HA and a jab back my way.

I love women. I'm always outnumbered around my house. There are times when I'm the lone male here surrounded by my wife, my daughter, my MIL, and my wife's two sisters. I like hanging with "my girls" despite the fact they all speak Navajo and take great pleasure in laughing at me and I have no idea what the hell they are even saying about me.:shrug:

Scout123
02-19-2012, 10:04 AM
Jason, nice to have friends here! Scout

ceramictec
02-19-2012, 10:15 AM
I love womenI love women too, they are good at cooking and cleaning :D

116027

Scout123
02-19-2012, 10:19 AM
Hi Brian. I grew up in Brandon back in the 50s, 60s and 70s. Brandon did not even have a stop light then. I couldn't live in the Tampa area now, I like it out here in the country.

Yes, I'm a good cook but my husband is too. He doesn't do cleaning too well though. Scout

ceramictec
02-19-2012, 10:23 AM
yeah Brandon is too busy now. Fishhawk, Lithia & Boyette is where its at now.
I love my area of New Tampa. North on 75 and everything you want is right here.
I lived in Volusia County and the country life is for the birds.
cant stand it and it's boring, plus no work.

Scout123
02-19-2012, 10:34 AM
Brian, when I say the country, I mean on a cattle farm/ranch. So it's never boring! I am lucky in as much as all my sales are over the internet and I never even see my customers. Everything is done through Emails.

My family still live in Valrico. By Fat Willies. Ever been there? I do miss the beach!!! Scout

ceramictec
02-19-2012, 10:37 AM
never heard of it. I will look into it, thanks.

jwmezzanotte
02-19-2012, 11:25 AM
In my early 20's I had little to no job prospects, no skills, and little direction in life.
Many times there was no food in my fridge and no money in my pocket. I had a car (If you could call it that. bald tires, no brakes, various colors of smoke coming out the back) but I had to make choices. I had enough money to insure the car, or put gas in the car :shrug:
So basicly I didn't really have a car.
I lived like this for a couple of years, and it was the best thing that could ever have happened to me! I learned lessons that can be learned in no other way.
My parents could have helped me out, or wiped my ass for me but they didnt. And I was to proud to ask for help as well. To this day I don't know if they left me on my own intentionly to teach me something, or if it was just because they didnt know I was hungry :shrug:. But it really was the best thing for me at the time. So I guess I would say that my dad did give me some direction in life, even if it were by doing nothing.

I look around at all (ok not all, but most) the 20-somethings I see today. The live with their parents, have no job to speak of, have a flat screen tv/video games/cellphone etc etc etc. And they crawl out of bed some time in the afternoon asking (more like demanding) "whats for dinner?"
Why should they work? They already have a nice house, flat screen tv, home cooked meals etc etc etc.

I think everyone needs to be poor at least once in their life. Its good for you.

Scout123
02-19-2012, 11:30 AM
John, good story! So, will you feed them when they are old and hungry? :nod: Scout

jwmezzanotte
02-19-2012, 11:37 AM
Scout-
I help them out where I can.

The thought that comes to mind for me a lot though, is when the time comes,
Am I going to be able to let my daughter struggle "just enough" or am I going to cave and give her what she wants?

We'll see.. :stupid2:

Scout123
02-19-2012, 11:38 AM
It's a little different with a girl. Daddy is way more protective. And there is a difference I guess between want and need. Scout

MudMaker
02-19-2012, 12:45 PM
John.. thankx for sharing... I would hope that he wanted you to learn for yourself. It's what I would do for my kids.. I help them when I see them trying to help themselves..
We do have a kid that just can't seem to get off of dead center but the State and Feds are supplying him with enough comforts that he probably will not reach out for bigger and better things..
I think the thing with boys is that you have to let them fail on their own and be able to pick themselves up as opposed to solving their problems all the time...
Girlz ARE different....

and I don't eat at places like FAT Willies, or Good Eats, or any place with a big Bull on the roof... :shades:

Ceci
02-19-2012, 01:01 PM
Paquito, what do you mean by girls are different? How? I don't understand.

Ceci

eurob
02-19-2012, 01:13 PM
Am I going to be able to let my daughter struggle "just enough" or am I going to cave and give her what she wants?

I just had to that , cave and give her what she wants.




It's a little different with a girl. Daddy is way more protective. And there is a difference I guess between want and need.

Scout,

I tried , still trying , to protect and give my daughter everything -- at my best abilities -- but these did not changed the outcome . When she decided to go , I ''had'' no choice . If you look at it , it is her life and her decision. You know when you get at 18 years old , the world tells you --- hey , you are on you're own -- , you are allowed to do as you please . She chose to go to explore her ideas and dreams , regardless of our opinions . Did I make a mistake and let her go ? I don't think so , but this was the hardest decision and life test . :)

Scout123
02-19-2012, 01:23 PM
Roberto, I left home at 17. My Dad was glad to be rid of the mouth to feed. I had hard times but I found and learned my lessons. I am happy that I left when I did. Either way, I still love my Dad. He would be 101 this year. So he was old school.

If you gave them a good foundation, they will stand on their own. It's hard to put a bandaide on it now if they are weak. I'll bet your daughter is not weak. She just needs to know that you have faith in her. Scout

Ceci
02-19-2012, 01:37 PM
I just had to that , cave and give her what she wants.

Too much caving in, not good in my opinion. Then like someone else said, there are things we all want, but do we really need them, especially when talking about young ones.

I tried , still trying , to protect and give my daughter everything -- at my best abilities --

I'm sorry, but giving everything is not the way to go in my opinion. Not the way real life is so what happens when the one giving is gone? Where does one then go to get? How does one learn to get by one's self if always given?

Ceci

MudMaker
02-19-2012, 01:58 PM
Paquito, what do you mean by girls are different?

Well... you know... they have those two.... sides of the brain which can both work at the same time...:stick:
Fredia and I have 4 boyz.. 2 and 2... Never had girls so I really can't speak with any degree of understanding.. You just can't treat girls and boys the same way..
Besides, girls are generally more mature than boys of the same age.. and along with maturity goes trust... different..

eurob
02-19-2012, 02:10 PM
If you gave them a good foundation, they will stand on their own. It's hard to put a bandaide on it now if they are weak. I'll bet your daughter is not weak. She just needs to know that you have faith in her.


THAT'S exactly right . But not having her around , it seems to be much harder to help if needed . Since rebeling also happens with most of us , Yes --- I did it too --- , She can count on one thing = Family . WE will always be here if she needs to come back , no matter what .


My Dad was glad to be rid of the mouth to feed. I had hard times but I found and learned my lessons. I am happy that I left when I did.


Scout , I am really sorry to hear it , that's just very sad. However , it looks like you accomplished good things on your own and you are happy with them . Great :tup2:

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Ceci,

I guess you are right . I would not argue with you on parenting merits , but thinking of the good sides --- not drinking , no drugs , no smoking , good grades --- of my daughter , I think the decision was good at that time . Now , she will have to learn on her own what '' providing '' means , or as you said it '' How does one learn to get by one's self if always given? ''

I am not at all happy with it , but do you think forcing her to do it my way , would've yield better results ? Maybe or maybe not . Everywhere you go with her , after 18 years old , tell you she is now on her own . "' You are out of the ecuation '' if you know what I mean .

Don't get me wrong , I know what hard life and providing means , but sometimes the best way is to let others discover it on their own . :)

jondon
02-19-2012, 02:27 PM
posted by Roberto:
Don't get me wrong , I know what hard life and providing means , but sometimes the best way is to let others discover it on their own .

Yes, it is normal for a parent to want to guide their children in the right direction but in many cases you realize the child has to learn just like you or I. The hard school of knocks, in life you live and learn by experience and are better for those experiences. Being shielded from the reality of the cruel world, I think leads to one being naive about the people of the world.

We all know we are going to make mistakes along the way. Anyone who has not made any mistakes or bad decisions hasn't lived. Once you are out on your own you have to start making decisions for yourself and well, just let that child know you are their friend anytime he or she needs someone to talk to. You won't make their decisions for them but just offer an opinion cause you care. Lets face it some parents are overbearing and very strict so when the child gets out on their own...... 180 degrees the other way...

You want to put your children in a bubble and protect them but just not possible. I think high school is a time to start getting them ready, giving them some freedom to work into the time they go to college and are all of a sudden on their own. They have your support always but they are "on their own," so to speak.

Davestone
02-19-2012, 02:51 PM
A friend sent me that page and i reflected on it and thought some could get some use out of it.
As i sit here my kids mostly grown and out of the house i think about the lost time i spent working mostly.I think we could all be a little better as people and parents.

Scout, i totally agree with the male dominant antagonistic attitude towards women whether it be on a news channel or home bbq, i always try to avoid the condescending attitude.

jwmezzanotte
02-19-2012, 02:58 PM
I just think as a general population we're all headed for some troubles.

I have a relative, 20 years old. He came to help out pouring concrete one day. Showed up several hours late, half listening and half listening to a several hundred dollar I-pod.
I watched him sit on the side of a form and shovel 1/4 shovel full scoops of concrete into the form WITH ONE HAND!
Some help.
He's not going to school and doesnt want to. He doesnt have a job and doesnt want one. He has more I-gadgets than I could ever know what to do with, stays up all night and wakes up some time after lunch. Doesnt have a drivers license, or want one. No ambition to have a car.
No ambition whatsoever.

Living the pampered life. I can list off many more "kids" just like this. My list of young adults that work for a living is short. Real short.

I once asked a kid that was "looking for work" to show up on a saturday.
He said, and I quote:
"Sure, I'll come. Only thing is I'm going out tonight so I'm not sure when I'm going to be up."
:uhh::eek:

Another time I had someone working with me and paying him decent wage, part way through the week : "I'm ok for money for now. I'd like to help you out some more, but I need to go fishing"
:wtf: Help me out? How can I explain to him that I don't need his "help", the job got done regardless. The "help" was for him! :bang:

I will admit that I was pretty misguided and kinda stupid when I was in my early 20's. But I worked, and worked hard. And I liked working.

I donno, I just seem to see a lot of pudgy 20-somethings with soft hands and full belly's.
What happens down the road when all these kids parents are gone? What happens when the gravy train is over?
ugh... :shrug:

On the plus side, at least the few people that still work for a living will be in pretty high demand :tup1:

Scout123
02-19-2012, 03:15 PM
John, yeah there are a lot of slackers but I see a lot of "well" kids too. They are motivated and looking towards the future.

On the other hand, I had a business for 18 years and people would come in to have me sign their unemployment sheets so they could get unemployment. Their words " You ain't hiring are you." I'd say, Are you asking for a job? They say, no just need my paper signed... I didn't sign it. I'm lucky someone didn't shoot me...

Another time I needed some temporary help so I went through an employment agency. The person that came worked two days and didn't show up the next. When I asked why she didn't come to work... she said she had to pick up her unemployment check. Good grief!

Another guy couldn't work his second day because he got caught on the river all night fishing. Caught???

GRRRRR! Scout

jondon
02-19-2012, 03:24 PM
posted by Dave:
As i sit here my kids mostly grown and out of the house i think about the lost time i spent working mostly.I think we could all be a little better as people and parents.


If I have learned one thing being around people in the last 15 years of my life, people mostly retired... My Godfather was much older so I ended up spending lots a my time round people much older. They all said they would have taken more time off, spent more time with their kids, enjoyed life more and not be so serious about their jobs. Hindsight is always 20/20, as for working hard and not being there as much as you would have liked.... You have to provide for your family. As for me I have a 5 year old nephew who has no Mom and I have been an important part of his life since birth. Always will be the uncle who cares, spends time with him, guides him. I won't look back and wish I had done differently cause I know what is more important in life. People.

John one thing I have learned about 20 year olds and yes I was once one. If you're doing something your forced to and not really into it.... it will be obvious. I been there and didn't want to be. I think people in general go through the motions in life till they find someone or something they are passionate about. At that time they will take the headphones off. If you are 20 and passionate about hard work, do it. If not don't pretend, you won't fool anyone:tup1: Go through the experience of life and find something that gives you a reason to get up in the morning.

Scout123
02-19-2012, 03:35 PM
I wish everyone could wake up feeling the joy I feel when I have a piece in the works. And the satisfaction of a job well done. How can you teach that? Scout

Ceci
02-19-2012, 04:00 PM
I would not argue with you on parenting merits , but thinking of the good sides --- not drinking , no drugs , no smoking , good grades --- of my daughter , I think the decision was good at that time .

I am not at all happy with it , but do you think forcing her to do it my way , would've yield better results ? Maybe or maybe not . Everywhere you go with her , after 18 years old , tell you she is now on her own . "' You are out of the ecuation '' if you know what I mean .

Actually, Roberto, you could argue with me quite easily since I have no children. I have lots of nieces and nephews and see the difference between those that got too much given to them and those that had to work for it. That is all I was basically saying.

I think I don't really understand your concerns about your daughter. From what I gather, she didn't go the route of going to college and went the route of "discovering" some things about herself and life. Nothing at all wrong with that. I think we are often conditioned that there is only one right way, certain route we are suppose to follow. The older I get, the more I see there is no one right way, depends on the person, depends on where one is in life. DIfferent routes for different people. Only your daughter can decide what is the right ways for her, what roads she wants to, needs to travel. Anyway, forcing doesn't usually work too well beyond a certain age.

Like you said, you will always be there for her, but be careful not to cross over to enabling which can distort her reality of what life is really like.

She sounds like a lovely person from your discription, a good person. That is one of the most important things at the end of the day to me, not some college education.

Ceci

Scout123
02-19-2012, 04:05 PM
Good words Ceci! Scout

jondon
02-19-2012, 04:24 PM
posted by Shirley:
I wish everyone could wake up feeling the joy I feel when I have a piece in the works.

Surely, you enjoy what you do! I do feel the joy waking up in the morning and before I even start doing anything. Life is good. And I did call you Shirley:D

Ceci
02-19-2012, 04:25 PM
Oh thanks, Scout.

I checked out your website awhile back. Love those watercolor flower paintings. Can you do something like that on tiles? One day, probably far into the future want to redo my kitchen some and was thinking that would look nice on a backsplash or something.

Ceci

eurob
02-19-2012, 04:26 PM
I wish everyone could wake up feeling the joy I feel when I have a piece in the works. And the satisfaction of a job well done. How can you teach that?

Scout,

By telling others about your experiences . Preaching your work and best practices may also be another way . I am not sure how many will listen or consider it.:)

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I think I don't really understand your concerns about your daughter. From what I gather, she didn't go the route of going to college and went the route of "discovering" some things about herself and life. Nothing at all wrong with that. I think we are often conditioned that there is only one right way, certain route we are suppose to follow. The older I get, the more I see there is no one right way, depends on the person, depends on where one is in life. DIfferent routes for different people. Only your daughter can decide what is the right ways for her, what roads she wants to, needs to travel. Anyway, forcing doesn't usually work too well beyond a certain age.

Like you said, you will always be there for her, but be careful not to cross over to enabling which can distort her reality of what life is really like.

She sounds like a lovely person from your discription, a good person. That is one of the most important things at the end of the day to me, not some college education.


I think when you will have kids , the concerns about them will never dissapear and will follow you everywhere.

My daughter she did go the route of college and gave up in the 2nd year . I tried to explain her the importance of finishing college and university before making decisions of which way to proceed , but it didn't work out . I guess I am not persuasive .

You are right , she is a lovely person . Thank you.:)

Scout123
02-19-2012, 04:29 PM
Ceci, check my site again. I have several tile galleries now. Thanks for checking it out before. Please look now and let me know how it looks.

Funny I have never been called Shirley. It's always a nick name. And having 5 brothers and sisters, I had a lot of nicknames.

Roberto, a formal education is not for everyone. Some people just have to do it their way. Once you fall in love with doing something well, it is a life long love. Scout

jwmezzanotte
02-20-2012, 10:14 PM
Not bad....

:clap1:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rzxcjg7YZSs&feature=related

Scout123
02-21-2012, 04:49 AM
Thanks John.

John Bridge
02-21-2012, 08:04 AM
I think women have far too much freedom these days. Next thing ya know they'll want the right to vote.

;)

Scout123
02-21-2012, 08:06 AM
Or the right to kick butt! :oyeah: Scout

jondon
02-21-2012, 09:26 AM
A wo-man President, juss a matter O time:tup1:

Scout123
02-21-2012, 09:29 AM
Could be.

jondon
02-21-2012, 09:33 AM
Thought you might be around! Thought that response would be Could be Should be;)

bulldog tile
02-21-2012, 09:43 AM
I thought it was a great reading Dave. I'll have to look up the book.

Speaking of girls, I was raised with two brothers and I had all girls so I basically raised the girls like I was raised especially after my first wife died of cancer and I was a single parent for many years.

I had to work and also had to take care of the girls so I would take them to work with me. They were the best grouters I've ever had and my guys would cringe when they saw them coming on grout day cause they knew my girls would work them hard. I know I spent more time with them then than at any time before in their lives.

Now they are all in their 20's and married to great guys with one grandchild and more on the way. All three have told me that the hardest times were the best times for them. Crazy me, I thought that was when I let them down.

Scout123
02-21-2012, 09:58 AM
Donnie, that's so true!

Jon, I didn't mean it that way. I was just agreeing. Funny how just words can be taken in so many ways.

I am not a libber. I just do what I want to do! Scout

Bugman
02-21-2012, 12:52 PM
Thanks for getting this discussion going, Dave. I'm a firm believer in children not having everything handed to them on a plate. My older daughter went to a private women's college on a full academic scholarship. We did pay the modest registration fees and gave her a very modest allowance for personal expenses. At some point she decided that she would like to have a little extra spending money and got a part-time job at a Substation II. It was a good experience, but after that she got some work-study jobs on campus that were a little more intellectually rewarding. She went to London for a wintermester study program and used some money that we had set aside years before for expenses. Later she told us it was pretty austere getting along, but she decided to use her discretionary money for some travel to Ireland and Paris over long weekends. We would have helped if there had been a need, but she didn't ask and we didn't send.

Our younger daughter had a really rough time during her mother's illness and death while she was a junior and senior in high school. She missed so much school that no one thought she could pull it off and graduate with her class. She worked very hard at home and made it. She was accepted to a private college, went 1.5 semesters and decided not to go back. This was right after Frances and I were married. We got back from our honeymoon and Megan told us she wasn't going back to college. After a lengthy talk I told her it was go back to college or get a job. After a little while she came home one day and said she had a job at Pet Smart. She did very well and worked there for almost a year. Then she got married and is doing what she said she wanted to do in life. Be a wife and mother. She has three kids and home schools. She used the money set aside for her education as a down payment on their first fixer upper house. I helped some with the remodeling, but once they learned what they were doing they finished on their own. Since then they have sold that house and bought a nice foreclosure house in a nice neighborhood. They have done a lot of work on that one themselves, but also contracted some of the repairs that were too advanced. We have been there for them if needed, but they have done well on their own.

Frances' son essentially paid his own way through college at Clemson. I think he still has some college loans, but he is doing well in life as an electrician and cinematographer in the movie industry. It's not what his degree was in, but he doesn't regret the college experiences either. His dad had a business go bust and wasn't able to help him at all.

It really bothers me to see young people (male or female) just drifting along with no rudder in life.

ceramictec
02-21-2012, 03:21 PM
A wo-man President, juss a matter O timeI would have taken Condoleezza Rice years ago for that position. :clap1:

John Bridge
02-21-2012, 04:04 PM
It really bothers me to see young people (male or female) just drifting along with no rudder in life.


I'm still drifting, Clyde. I think someday I might go back to school and become a bug professor. ;)

Seriously, I never did decide what I wanted to do in life. Things just happened. :D

custombuilt
02-21-2012, 10:39 PM
Great article dave! I have two little boys so each day I am reminded of the challenge that the Bible says to "train up your children in what is right, so when they are old they will not depart from it."

I too see way to many young men with no motivation in life. I am 26, completely debt free, house, cars, college paid for. Got married when I was 22 has two kids right bam bam, was tiling my way through school. Ok it felt like I was twenty years older there for a couple year with all the stress, but we made it.

But my dad taught me the value of hard work and motivation. I think part of it has to do with learning how to work and make money, and what to do with the money (ie, provide for your family, not drink it all up at the bar)

It is true that in many cases the woman pass the men up. I know a couple guys who don't make much effort because their wives "take care of them". I am all for women working and being successful, I know my wife is very talented in things I suck at. However, it is a proven fact that women want to work, but don't want to "have to work".

I learned that one at marriage counseling, told us about a survey they did. Basically it means that most women want their husband to be a responsible and capable provider, so they don't have to slave to pay the bills, but rather can work to have extra money for the family.

Those kind of husbands are getting harder to find though I think...

Scout123
02-22-2012, 05:41 AM
Yeah John, things happen. But it's OUR time now! I'm a Goonie!

Clyde, that must have been a hard time for you. I'm sorry you had to go through it. Sounds like you are doing OK now.

And yes, I wish there was a way to teach the work ethic to young people. They have so much more to contend with now. So many distractions.

So many run on conflict, or anger or just run. Wish I could help them feel the joy of production and creativity. All can be felt with a job well done. There's nothing like it. Scout

thebobby
02-22-2012, 12:40 PM
That passage was very true Dave, thanks for sharing.

jwmezzanotte
02-24-2012, 12:38 AM
And yes, I wish there was a way to teach the work ethic to young people.

I'm convinced there is a way. They need to suffer. And no, I don't mean starvation or physical suffering. I mean doing without.

There are several 20 somethings that I know of that are living with their parents, no job (worth speaking of. a couple hrs a week doesnt count) and no school. Just vegetating.
I've called all of them, repeatedly to get them to come to work. I don't work them overly hard, and I pay them well. I cant understand why they are always "busy". I would have jumped at the chance when I was their age.

But when I think about it a little harder I can see why they don't show up. Whats easier, work for an hour for $20, or "mom, I need $20".
Yup thats it, they have it too good. They need to suffer a bit.
This laziness and self entitlement seems to follow them later on in life, which I think was kind of the point of the passage that started this thread.

But then again...
Maybe I'm just bitchy because I work damn hard for my $20. :mad:

Scout123
02-24-2012, 05:05 AM
I like to work, work as hard as my old body allows. No better sleep than after a job well done! :cheers: Scout