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tilelayer
11-03-2011, 11:46 AM
I see Tec is introducing a new grout called power grout supposed to be out in a week or so. Thoughts? Anyone test it?

www.tecpowergrout.com

Sponsored Links


ceramictec
11-03-2011, 04:45 PM
probably just some repackaging.

I'm happy with Laticrete PermaColor grouts.
TEC isnt big down here and only a few places stock it.

tileaz
11-03-2011, 04:59 PM
My guys tested this grout a few months ago. I have seen it in action. Easy to spread, product data sheet says no need to be sealed, never have seen that in writing before. I have already submitted the grout for two commercial projects here in Phoenix, can't wait to see it on the jobs.:yipee:

ceramictec
11-03-2011, 05:25 PM
so is this a relabeled and improved AccuColor XT ?

Levi the Tile Guy
11-03-2011, 05:44 PM
Don't know, but it looks like you have to mix it with something. That is just a speculation but in the pic it shows a little container by the bag. I tried to call my TEC rep but he didn't answer.

tilelayer
11-03-2011, 08:10 PM
I saw my rep last night, the little container is a 5 lb jar. They will have it in 5 lb jars, 10 lb bags and 25 lb bags. I see the jar not making it. But I had the sheet on it, you dont need to mix it with a drill just a margin trowel like prism.

It has nothing to do with the Accucolor XT totally new product.

Mike K.
11-04-2011, 04:30 PM
Wow! Great news travels fast!

Power Grout IS a brand new formulation of grout from TEC and H.B. Fuller Construction Products. It combines the easy-to-use features of regular cementitious grout with many of the advantages of epoxy and urethane grouts. So you get fast, trouble-free installations with permanent stain resistance, crack resistance, perfect color consistency and no efflorescence. When I say it’s fast, I mean open to traffic in 4 hours and 24 hours for showers.

It’s simple – just mix it with water and install. No sealing needed either, so it saves you time!

And it’s far less expensive than epoxy/urethane grouts!!

Levi the Tile Guy
11-04-2011, 04:37 PM
Mike,

I would assume you are affiliated with TEC, correct?

ceramictec
11-04-2011, 04:38 PM
Hi Mike,

you work for TEC ?
you sound like a rep to moi.

John Bridge
11-04-2011, 06:39 PM
Mike is products manager for H B Fuller/TEC. :)

ceramictec
11-04-2011, 07:00 PM
well cx should get after him for his lack of signature line. :)

Higher Standard Tile
11-05-2011, 12:42 AM
This is what I got emailed to me.

PLEASE DO NOT MISTAKE THIS FOR ANOTHER STANDARD GROUT HERE ARE THE HIGHLIGHTS


NEW PLASTIC BAGS
COLOR CONSISTENT FORMULA
UNIVERSAL FLOOR OR WALL GROUT (1/16 TO 1/2") REDUCES YOUR INVENTORY BY 50%
PERMANENTLY STAIN RESISTANT (Unlike all other competitors standard or Hybrid cement based grouts THAT recommends additional sealers)
EFFLORESCENCE FREE
CRACK FREE
FAST SET (Allows traffic in 4 hrs)
EXTENDED POT LIFE (60 min.)

SHOWER USE AFTER 24 HRS. YES 24 HRS! ! ! ! NOT 7-10 DAYS LIKE CEMENT GROUTS OR URETHANES

EASIER TO USE THAN URETHANE OR EPOXY GROUTS

LOWER COST OF USE!

HYBRID CEMENT GROUTS (Upgrade cost of $0.08 psf) Low stain resistance, added sealer required

POWERGROUT (Upgrade cost of $0.15 psf) No need to seal

GROUTBOOST PRO (Upgrade cost of $0.19 psf) No need to seal. ALSO PROVIDES PERMANENT OIL BASED RESISTANCE

URETHANE GROUTS (Upgrade cost of $0.55 psf) PLUS ADDED LABOR COSTS

EPOXY GROUTS (Upgrade costs of $1.00 psf) PLUS ADDED LABOR COSTS


Dan Fisher, CSI, CDT

Kathy :)
12-27-2011, 12:30 PM
Product data sheet for AccuColor XT also states,"Highly stain resistant, never needs sealing." Please weigh in if you've found this to be true or not and if the same can be said of Power Grout.

tileaz
12-27-2011, 12:59 PM
Kathy, we are using the new Power grout in an installation outside of Tucson in an elementary school. The architect was impressed with the language in writing on the data sheets that said this grout never needs sealing. It is about half the cost of epoxy grout. We will start grouting next week. I can update you on the usage if you want.

stile45
12-27-2011, 08:05 PM
Hi guys I just installed that grout in a job last Friday . I use mostly Permacolor for awhile now .The previous X T from Tec was not to my liking.It was fine to work with, good potlife and good color retention . More gritty then Permacolor but I liked it , I would use it again.

jondon
12-28-2011, 04:37 AM
I just used this on a job and the customer was complaining.

CarlDoItMyselfTiler
12-30-2011, 02:47 PM
Hi Folks,

New here to this forum. I'm a do-it-myself tiler on my third major tile project here at my house. I used TEC Power Grout in the 5 lbs jars, which include a measure line on how much water needs to be added.

I used the grout in a tub/shower surround. I followed all the instructions quite closely, and even let it cure for a full 7 days before running the shower even though the packaging says 24 hours before shower. When curing, it looks like a normal grout, but today I ran the shower for the first time. I noticed on the parts that got wet, if touched it felt loose & gritty, and some of it comes off. Has anyone who has used this specific Power Grout had this type of problem? I called into HB Fuller and told them what was happening. The person who took my call was not able to address my issue, so they are refering it to one of their "Area Managers". Its late in the day Friday, so I don't expect to hear back until early next week, but wanted to see what experience others have had with TEC Power Grout.

-Carl

Tool Guy - Kg
12-30-2011, 06:39 PM
Hi Carl, welcome. :wave:

I can imagine any remaining grout haze causing the condition you describe. Is there any chance of that? Is the grout soft to your fingernail or hard? Does it crumble away with your fingernail?

A picture may be helpful.

:)

CarlDoItMyselfTiler
12-31-2011, 05:21 PM
Hi Tool Guy,

As far as grout haze, I had always viewed that as what winds up on the tile face and not on the actual grout lines. I guess my understanding was a little off base if you are saying grout haze can also wind up on the grout lines. I suppose that could be it, but how can I tell?

The grout is definitely hard to the fingernail, for sure. But if I use my the edge of my fingernail like a scraper, some grit comes off. When I wet it, you can see some grit residue in the wiped off water.

The same person at Fuller called me back and left a message. They thought it may be possible that the grout hardened too quick, and outlined steps to "re-harden" it as something that may help. They advised me to mist it twice a day, morning & evening, for three days and then let it dry 24 hours after the third day.

The attached photo shows what it currently looks like.

CarlDoItMyselfTiler
01-03-2012, 09:09 PM
I did follow the manufacturer's suggestion to attempt to "re-harden" the grout, but there was only marginal difference in the amount of powder grout released when wet. I'm wondering if this will subside after using the shower for a while, or if it will continue to the point where all the grout will come out. Any thoughts?

John Bridge
01-04-2012, 05:41 AM
Hi Carl, Welcome aboard. :)

Seems to me the grout has been in there about three weeks now?

I would go ahead and scrub it with a brush and clean water. If the grout comes out it comes out. I don't know of any way to harden it at this point. :)

P.S. If the grit goes down the drain make sure you run plenty of water through the trap. I'm not concerned about cement, but the grit might accumulate.

Jc0379
01-04-2012, 06:24 PM
Jon, you said you used this on a job and the customer was complaining, what were they complaining about? Reason I ask is my local distributor wants me to try it, said I would like it better than Spectralock, I doubt it though.

Toddman
01-18-2012, 07:33 PM
Went to a seminar put on by our local Tec rep last week to introduce this grout. Have a bag in hand and will try it out on a backsplash Friday. I'm interested in the fact that it doesn't need to be sealed, because this job is an hour and a half away. I'm not going to be able to hang around when it's done, so I won't be able to comment on the color consistency aspect of it when it dries. Sounds like it's got some great stain protection too.

tilelayer
01-18-2012, 07:40 PM
25 lb bag? I hear tec switching to plastic like laticrete.

Toddman
01-18-2012, 09:20 PM
Yep Rick... plastic it is.

NerdCage
01-23-2012, 06:25 PM
I'm having the exact same problem with this grout. Followed the instructions exactly, and yet the grout just won't cure. As soon as it gets wet, it just wipes right out. I'm at a loss what to do.

I'll be calling the manufacturer tomorrow.

Mike K.
01-24-2012, 11:43 AM
Dear Steve:

Sorry you are experiencing this issue. We'd certainly like to help you. Our Technical Service department is available to assist you and we want to make sure we get this resolved. The number is 800-832-9023. Or if you'd rather, we can contact you if you want to provide your contact information.

jason1083
01-24-2012, 03:16 PM
Mike: If you are affiliated with Tec/ H.B Fuller (as your previous post suggests) the mods are going to ask that you put something in your signature line indicating this.

John Bridge
01-24-2012, 04:13 PM
Johnny fixed it. ;)


For the record, it appears we have complaints from two diyers. Don't get me wrong. We love diyers, but they don't have the experience that pros have. We'll be paying attention here to see how this is resolved.

NerdCage
01-30-2012, 02:29 PM
I did indeed call. They took my information and said they have a paint on product which should solve the problem. If I had to guess, I'd say this wasn't the first time they've heard this complaint. After taking the lot number, she put me on hold and came back with the proposed solution. I could tell she was being told by someone else in the room how the product worked. Still waiting on it to arrive, I'll be using it ASAP and will report back. Got a bathroom that's finished except for the tile. Getting sick of the toilet sitting in my living room!

John's right, I am a DIYer. This is not my first tile job by a long shot, but I'm no pro. I am a very technical person, and followed the instructions to a T, though obviously something went wrong.

NerdCage
02-01-2012, 01:34 PM
I'm a happy customer now!

The product arrived yesterday, TEC Acrylic Grout Additive. I attached the instructions they sent with it. I painted it on last night, and this morning it was rock hard. I gave the grout a good soaking and scrubbing and it held.

We'll see how it does long term, but for now I'm satisfied.

John Bridge
02-01-2012, 03:12 PM
You don't know how happy that makes me. TEC has been around a long time. I knew they'd come through. :)

Higher Standard Tile
02-01-2012, 11:39 PM
That is an interesting idea. Never thought of painting on grout additive to cured grout to rehydrate it and make it stronger.

Glad it worked.

CarlDoItMyselfTiler
02-09-2012, 08:25 AM
Hi all,

I received the same solution & instructions that NerdCage received. They sent the additive and I applied it per the instructions. Unfortunately this solution did not resolve my issue. After the 2 coats and drying 24 hours, the texture of the grout did change. Before the additive, if I ran my finger across the surface, grit powder would come up. Now, I can run my finger across it and no powder comes up and it "feels" like a cured grout. But as soon as I get it wet, it starts coming out like grit powder.

HB Fuller is sending someone to my house next week to apply the additive again as they had different application method for floor vs. wall applications. I won't know until 24 hours after if it really worked, but they are working with me on next steps.

Regards,
Carl

tileguynky
02-09-2012, 05:26 PM
There is a product demonstration on this next Tuesday on this product and their new LFT mortar. Will be attending and asking a few question myself.

CarlDoItMyselfTiler
02-16-2012, 06:42 PM
Well, my saga came to a successful close this week. The HB Fuller rep came to my house and applied the additive again. This time, a foam paintbrush was used to apply the addititve instead of the applicator they sent me before. He put to coats of the addititve on. After letting it dry overnight, it was quite hard and did not come out with water. I ran the shower plus also washed the tiles and did not have any loose powder.

Thanks to all for the support here on this forum.

GRITTERTILE
02-18-2012, 09:52 AM
I used power grout for the first time yesterday. They say its quicker and faster, but I disagree. I suggest following the instructions on letting it set up for at least 30 min. before wiping it down. If you wipe it off sooner or more than twice, it seemed to absorb any water and almost turn into liquid. If you are grouting shower walls and grout only the top half and then the bottom half, the lower grout joints, almost need to be dried of any moisture. I didn't do this on the back wall only to have the grout turn to soup and literally run down the wall. It's nice to be made aware of the other problems with this grout. If you have to go back and apply additive later, what's the point.

bbmsu
02-18-2012, 10:34 AM
We've used it on several shower applications now and haven't have issue. You have to be careful of using too much water for the mix, as it is a rapid set. And you also have to use a very damp, hardly any water, sponge for 1st and 2nd wipe until it is set really well, then clean the tiles.

GRITTERTILE
02-18-2012, 10:54 AM
Mixed the grout pretty stiff. Didn't have any problems on the ceiling or upper walls. Could be that my sponge was too wet. Thanks for the advice.

John Bridge
02-18-2012, 12:42 PM
Hi all, :)

I had problems the first time I used Custom's Prism grout. Did the upper walls first and then washed. Had grout running in the joints lower down. I think the key to these modern grouts is to follow the directions explicitly. You don't have the wiggle room that the old grouts provide. Glad I'm retarred. :D

Geocade
02-29-2012, 05:56 PM
Any further info / comment on this grout.

Tips for usage etc.

Despite all the above posts I was convinced by the supplier that this was the grout to use. I haven't brought myself to open the package yet.

Geoff

Geocade
03-03-2012, 03:29 PM
For what it is worth I have the same issue as described above.

Mixed up a small batch and applied to tiles on test board. It has been about 24 hours (which is the time TEC says you could use a shower). I find a wet finger run along the test joints will rub off the grout colour/grit.

I mixed it in the exact ratio and followed the instructions to a 'T' .

Unless this hardens up over the next little bit, it won't be going anywhere but back to TEC. Far too expensive (plus matching caulking) to mess with.


Just as a little more info. I put some in the joints of the tile and then put a 3 inch pancake blob on a sheet of plastic. The tile was cleaned as per instructions, the blob was left to cure without any manipulation. The blob degrades under water too - so this would not seem to be an issue of too much water when cleaning (there was none on the pancake).

Yes I'm a DIY too, but I'm confident I read / followed the instructions exactly as they are shown on the package. :)



Geoff

Geocade
03-04-2012, 01:53 PM
Just to keep this alive .....

I'm more than 48 hours of curing time and this stuff readily 'melts' in water. It is not getting better as it cures. Now I did make up partial bag, but did very careful measurements, mixing.


Mike from TEC, any comments??


Geoff

muskymike
03-05-2012, 06:27 AM
i just used some a couple weeks ago inna shower. I had no problems at all with it. Kinda spendy though. I'm using it again today onna floor. Customers like that you don't need to seal it. :)

Geocade
03-06-2012, 03:27 PM
Forgive me, I'd like to explore this topic and have done a couple of different tests. Being sensitive to my DIY status, would the moderators prefer I start a new thread over at the Tile Forum / Advice Board?

Geoff

dhagin
03-06-2012, 03:37 PM
Hi Geoff. :)

If you've used this in your project, and have a project thread, then your project thread is the place for it.

If you're still doing mock ups and sampling, keep it here for now.

We can always move or separate/merge things later if needed. :)

Another thing that might help, is to list exactly what you've done rather than saying 'you followed directions to a T'. We all make mistakes and maybe the process of writing it out would help isolate something. Not sayin this is the case, just sayin it might help. :)

frankey
03-07-2012, 03:16 AM
I used 3 bags and two different colors Coffee and Pearl Mixed to the consistency I wanted ( never read the directions). Used in Shower Ceiling, walls and floor also bathroom walls and floor, joints were 1/8 and 3/16. I mixed 7 batches, retained 1" diameter sample from each batch, let set over the weekend then on Monday, one at a time I put sample in a bucket of water. Color and very small amount of sand washed off outside layer of 6 samples, which I think is acceptable, one sample however did loose about 1/16 of an area which was not tightly packed. I went back and checked area where sample came from and found no problems. When taking samples I used the last of what was in bucket rolled in a ball using my hands, however the sample that I would say failed was not tightly packed in the area that washed away.
Conclusion, It would appear that the amount water used in mix (within reason) is not the problem, but how it is applied. I usually pack just as much as I can in joints using Green rubber float.
P.S. Most likely will not use in ceiling any more, it is not quite sticky enough.

Geocade
03-07-2012, 04:59 PM
Thanks.

Rather than re-type the instructions please see the attached photo for reference. Here’s where I deviated.

1. To mix the package I poured the entire contents into a clean PVC bucket and gently blended it (dry) it with a clean stir stick making sure to consolidate everything.
2. Rather than mixing the complete package I removed 1 pound (as measured on accurate scale) it was put into a smaller clean container
3. I mixed it with 75ml of clean cool water (sorry for the imperial and metric measurements). See instructions.
4. The mixture was mixed by hand in a small container with a margin trowel.
5. Other than that see instructions below – they were followed on the sample board as described in earlier post

The consistency was like loose peanut butter – sorry no slump tests...

Upon drying (now pushing 6 days) the mixture readily washes away in water see photos – not just colour, but quite a bit of sand. The picture shows the effects of wetted fingers slightly rubbed over the surface the left over pancake as described above. The grout ropes between tiles on the sample board does the same.

I tried a second sample mixture, this time making it a little leaner maybe 50ml of water. The consistency was like thick peanut butter. This doesn’t wash away as bad as the first sample, but still does. I guess I'm not sure what acceptable is.

Geocade
03-09-2012, 05:06 AM
Does anyone see any user error here - before I throw in the towel and try a different product.

Geoff

tilemanct
03-09-2012, 05:14 AM
Use Permacolor from Laticrete and your problems will be solved. I just did a huge shower with it and I have to say they have made it even better to use.

Geocade
03-09-2012, 02:01 PM
Looking at Kevin's post above, what is considered an exceptable amount of colour and sand coming off?

(Can't find laticrete products around here)

Geoff

dhagin
03-09-2012, 03:11 PM
Any of these products can be shipped. To your door, if needed. :)

frankey
03-10-2012, 05:44 AM
Reply to Geoff's question what is acceptable, Color wash off discolored but could still see bottom of bucket, water was 3" or 76.2 mm deep in 5 gal or 18.927 Liters bucket and the sample was a ball rolled in hands like you would roll a meatball, diameter of 2" or 50.8 mm
The sand that washed off was half of a teaspoon.
Geoff why is your sample tapered on the ends?

Geocade
03-10-2012, 09:42 AM
It's tapered as it is a portion of a pancake I made maybe from two meatballs. Once dry, I broke in half to keep a sample 'unmolested'. A smaller piece in a glass of water discoloured the water so much you could not see the sample or through the glass to the other side. The amount of sand I don't know. I had the sand sitting on the counter to dry and Mrs. Geoff unknowingly threw it out. It was a lot from a small sample.

On my second sample, it was quite a bit better, but not what I would say was very easy to spread. Again like thick peanut butter.

I called the supplier and a TEC rep has apparently been contacted. It has been suggested you mix it to the consistency of wet beach sand. That would seem too stiff to me to spread easily. Not a lot of fun on a wall, I am sure and would result in a ton on the floor.

I would suggest to get it to that consistency, you would not use the amount of water as indicated in the instructions?? So maybe that is my issue - too much water in the first attempt.

bbmsu
03-10-2012, 05:56 PM
What are you using to mix the grout?

Geocade
03-11-2012, 06:33 AM
Hi:

The one pound tests were mixed in small clean continers with a margin trowel.

Geoff

Hammy
03-11-2012, 07:54 AM
Geoff, How much thinset did you add to (water was 3" or 76.2 mm deep in 5 gal or 18.927 Liters bucket ) to get mix?

Hammy

Geocade
03-11-2012, 07:57 AM
Ratios as per instructions.

One pound of grout and 75ml of water. The instructions say 25 pounds of grout and 1.89 litres of water. (see post 48 above).


Sorry:
75ml is about 1/3 of a cup. Roughly.
1.89l equals 1890ml


Geoff

Hammy
03-11-2012, 08:46 AM
3" of water seems like a lot to me.

At the rate you mentioned = 75" of water to 1 -- 25# bag of grout

I usually place approximately 1 to 1.5" of water in a 2 gal bucket and add 4 to 5 scoups of grout then adjust to obtain the right mixture.

Hammy

Geocade
03-11-2012, 09:31 AM
Thanks Hammy;

Sorry. I think I have been confusing. Chalk it up to growing up when we were converting from imperial measurements to metrc. I readily use both.

I made up one pound of grout for a test. I mixed that with about 1/3 of a cup of water (which is 75ml (ml is millilitres)).

I am pretty sure about my math.

Geoff

Hammy
03-11-2012, 01:26 PM
ok makes more sense...........I think.

Hammy

dhagin
03-11-2012, 01:30 PM
I am pretty sure about my math.

yep, close enough. :)

ntruro
03-12-2012, 08:31 PM
I too am a DIYer who is having the same problem with TEC Power Grout. After over a week curing time, it washes out of the joints.

I used it on a vanity wall and alcove tub surround (130sq ft total) tiled with 12" x 12" filled and honed limestone with 1/8" grout lines. Before grouting, I sealed the tile with Dupont's Bulletproof and let it dry for a week. I closely followed the mixing and application directions on the Power Grout package. After allowing the grout to cure for over a week, I tried to apply a second coat of Bulletproof to the vanity wall. Unfortunately the Power Grout started to dissolve and left streaks of gritty white residue on the surface of the tiles. Not looking forward to brushing on grout addative, but sounds like the only solution.

I've used SpectraLock twice with great results and wish I'd done so again or used Permacolor. However, we decided to use Power Grout because Laticrete doesn't offer matching Latisil in the required grout color.

Geocade
04-01-2012, 08:41 PM
A bit of an update.

Despite better judgement, I installed this stuff (Standard Grey colour). I contacted the supplier, had them chat with the TEC rep got the advice etc and went for it.

Anyway, it went in and looked good. Sat for more than a week to cure. Now I am using the shower and this stuff washes out, and continues to wash out. Leaving some marks on the tile, I can run my finger along the joints and it comes off the 'standard grey' colour of the grout. Not just a little, but a lot.

This doesn't seem to be confined to the top layer, its getting down about a 32nd of an inch in one spot now.

Keeping an eye on it, to see where it goes. If it has to come out you and TEC won't need the phone to hear me screaming......

I am very sure of mixing and application as to the letter of the instructions.

My advice (as a more than competent avid DIYer) is to avoid this stuff. It seems to be very twitchy.

CarlDoItMyselfTiler
04-14-2012, 04:26 PM
Geoff,

I see your posts and you're hitting the same issue I had, but you've gone through some more exhaustive tests to confirm your point. I imagine the grout additive approach will work in your case as well. But if that is not something you wish to go through, I suggest you reach out to HB Fuller (manufacturer) and have them send a field rep out to apply the additive. They did that with me and now that they have set a precedent, it would hard for them to not be willing to come to your job site.

Regards,
Carl

cx
04-14-2012, 04:31 PM
...and have them send a field rep out to apply the additive. They did that with me and now that they have set a precedent, it would hard for them to not be willing to come to your job site.I doubt the company is in any way aware they've set any sort of precedent there, Carl. That sort of activity frequently varies quite a bit depending upon the region of country, the avialability of reps in that region, the specifics of the particular installation, and other factors.

Always worth a try, of course. :)

Dobri
04-14-2012, 06:04 PM
It seems like we have few people here with the same problem, washing grout and not hard enough. Is the fault at the person applying or the grout itself.
I did not see any comments on the issue from Tec rep?

LegacyFloors
04-24-2012, 04:57 PM
I found that out today ON SITE. Then I found it buried in the powergrout PDS:
"May scratch polished marble, glass or metal tile."
Despite what the distributors have told me, ...It does. Pictures to follow in a new post.

tilerite
06-20-2012, 03:23 PM
I've been using Tec grouts for many years. First, their standard stuff and for the last half dozen years, their XT (stain resistant) grout. Finally tried out the new power grout on my daughters new home. I would say it was slightly harder to work with but nothing more than a small learning curve, no different than most new products. The finished product came out great. No issues at all and the color consistency is virtually perfect. Note: my daughter spilled wine on the floor just after moving in and told me it cleaned up nicely off the grout.

mctile
07-12-2012, 06:02 PM
I just had a bit of a Powergrout nightmare. Used Summer Wheat in a shower pan. The pan had cured for almost three weeks (waiting for glass) before it had any water on it and I received a call from the home owner which stated that she got out of the shower and tracked brown footpronts from the shower all over her towels and bathroom. I went over to check it out and sure enough, wipe a wet towel on the grout lines and it comes right out. I called my vender where the grout was purchased and they said the rep told them that it is packed with pigment and it will bleed a bit but then harden up....I say horsecrap.

Might want to stay away from this product until they can get it figured out.

tilerite
07-13-2012, 05:30 AM
I just used Powergrout (standard gray) on a shower I completed. No problems at all so far, knock on wood. That summer wheat color though has always given me issues. Not sure what the problem is but I try to stay away from that particular color.

mctile
07-14-2012, 11:44 AM
Thought I would give an update on my PowerGrout issue. My local rep. told me that the solution for this problem is to coat the grout with three coats of TEC grout additive. I was also told that due to this isssue with the PowerGrout,TEC has started packaging a product to distribute to combat this problem.

TileArt1
07-14-2012, 11:53 AM
So now beyond getting used to a new grout you're expected to install an additional product over your cured grout or add additional products to your mixed grout to 'fix' the company's problems caused by a rush to market and incomplete testing? What a PITA.

Are you gonna bill the company for the extra time you spend doing that? I would.

mctile
07-15-2012, 09:00 AM
They told me to submit a claim once I go through the fix. Pretty bummed about the whole thing. Pulled PowerGrout from every one of my workorders. No mas.

cx
07-15-2012, 10:35 AM
I sent a PM to their rep of record (http://www.johnbridge.com/vbulletin/member.php?u=73467) here on our site last week, Matthew, but not response as yet.

I agree there's gotta be a better way than that to deal with the problem.

mctile
07-15-2012, 11:08 AM
I agree, CX. At this point, I think the best fix is with Spectra Lock:shades:.

cx
07-15-2012, 03:12 PM
And you know that is not the answer the boys and girls at TEC want you to have. :)

mctile
07-15-2012, 03:21 PM
Then if TEC wants to market a grout that you don't have to seal, then make sure its a grout that you don't have to go back and seal......twice.

I went through the efflorvessence thing and all the acid washes with the XT and boost and now this problem with the PowerGrout. They just don't seem to be able to get it right. My jobs are not cheap R & D ffor TEC.

Fool me once, shame on you.........

Erin from TEC®
07-16-2012, 01:03 PM
Hi Matthew,

Thank you for reaching out. We truly care about your experience with POWER GROUT® and want to address your questions. Power Grout® is a pigment-rich formulation that ensures color consistency. What you are experiencing is normal, temporary, and will not affect the color of the grout in the joint. We take pride in our products and would love to share some tips to ensure hassle-free installations in the future. Please give us a call at 800-832-9023. Rest assured that we’re here to help.

tilerite
07-16-2012, 02:19 PM
The shower I grouted last week with powergrout looks great today.

Erin from TEC®
07-16-2012, 02:58 PM
That's great Rick!

cx
07-16-2012, 03:38 PM
Welcome aboard, Erin. :)

Are you our official TEC rep now? Did you do something to Mike, or did we somehow offend him?

tileaz
07-16-2012, 04:06 PM
Just finished four schools with power grout so far so good.

Erin from TEC®
07-16-2012, 04:19 PM
Yup, happy to join the conversation! I'm TEC®'s new digital/social media specialist.:wave: Mike's still here. (He sits right next to me.) He says hi. We're excited to chat with you all and provide support in any way we can.

Erin from TEC®
07-16-2012, 04:22 PM
Cool James! Thanks for your support.

cx
07-16-2012, 05:52 PM
Are you also able to address the technical questions about y'all's products, Erin, or only the social media questions?

Having Matthew contact you is certainly a good start for him, but it doesn't help the other members and lurkers to understand the problem he had with the product nor the work-around he was initially given.

Can you help us with some of that? :)

tileguynky
07-16-2012, 06:24 PM
Could this be coming out of a certain plant? I know that Laticrete has several plants across the US. If TEC does too, is there a way to see if this stuff is a plant(s) specific problem?
We know the so far good results are happening in KY, NC, and AZ.

We know problems are happening in CO and Canada. Where are the DIY 's located?

Cain
07-16-2012, 08:09 PM
So Erin, you say that becuase it is a pigment rich formula that three Weeks after install it is normal for a client to leave pigment rich footprints on their new floor, and towels? Glad to hear that it wont affect the color in the joints:confused::scratch:
Just hearing that response will have me avoiding this grout like a plague.
Sorry for your problems Matthew. Good luck with your fix.

muskymike
07-16-2012, 08:19 PM
Hi Erin, I use TEC grouts alla time and have just started using the Power Grout. I love the stuff. I was using XT and loved that stuff too. :)

mctile
07-17-2012, 07:12 AM
Hi Erin. I have been in contact with my local TEC rep. throughout this process and he has given me the "loaded with pigment" pitch and told me to apply the grout additive, etc. Sounds like TEC is scrambling. We both know that PowerGrout was not intended to act this way.

It seems I have to go back for a third time. It is still bleeding after two coats of the grout additive.

I have used Powergrout on quite a few projects. I have multiple floors out there 2000 sq. ft. plus with PowerGrout that have no problems. I have plenty of showers out there with PowerGrout with no problems. The issue is that now I do have a problem and it seems to not be an isolated incident. The problem is so wide spread that TEC is packaging up a product to fix this issue. How long have you known that PowerGrout acts this way in wet areas?

I'm sorry Erin, but grout wiping out of the joints when wet is NOT NORMAL OR ACCEPTABLE. I stand behind my work 100% and a big reason I can do that is because I have confidence in my building knowledge & building materials. As I stated before, I dealt with a whole lot of effloresence issues with the XT and now this with the PowerGrout. Cannot help but lose confidence in your grout products. Whether its due to a rush to market, poor science, or tainted trials this product needs to be refigured before distributed because its the end user that pays the price.

Erin from TEC®
07-17-2012, 03:42 PM
CX,
Happy to answer your question. Grout additives enhance the curing process and lock in pigment. Additives have historically been used for those purposes when needed.

Erin from TEC®
07-17-2012, 03:46 PM
Matthew,
So sorry that you continue to have concerns with this installation. I’m glad that you’ve had many other successful POWER GROUT® installations and that you’re working with your technical rep to help resolve this particular one.

cx
07-17-2012, 03:55 PM
Mmmm, so, I'll take that as a no. :)

Do we have some idea why Matthew experienced the failure? And why the work-around didn't seem to help?

That's what the folks out here will be interested in hearing. Seems with some of our pros indicating good results with the product, but some not, there must be some known reason for the nots. And since it takes only one bad installation to really hurt, we'd all be more comfortable knowing the problem has been identified and corrected.

Least I would if I lived where TEC products were sold and used. Really I would.

tileaz
07-17-2012, 04:58 PM
Here's my two cents worth. Every manufacturer has issues:eek: I know nothing new, but it is the way that the particular problem is handled. These manufacturers need to understand that when you have these type of issues that bad news travels at light speed, using this blog as an example. I hope that TEC can learn from this, we are in fact dealing with people's livelihoods here. I have had some product issues and I can remember who treated me well and who's product I don't use anymore. As has been said a million times before, you don't get peoples attention until it hits their wallet.

mctile
07-17-2012, 07:28 PM
I think its important that I expand a bit on what James said. Worth mentioning is the attention I recieved from my local rep about this situation. He was on it ready to help in anyway possibe from day one.....and it was long before I posted anything on this site. Even though my ass puckers a bit everytime I think of Power Grout, I have to give credit where credit is due when it comes to TEC's support and response.

It seems the unfortunate truth is that TEC may not have the anwser, either

tilelayer
09-23-2012, 08:30 AM
I used power grout for the first time the other day in Ivory. I mixed it like the directions say I must say it tends to flow. I grouted marble with it it was honed. I let it sit i gave it a wash. The joints bled a bit, I put a fan on it for a bit, then they dried rock hard, i buffed with a dry cotten cloth and man it turned out nice. The next section i did I used a mega dry sponge and it turned out sweet, you let it sit for a bit then buff it and the job tuend out very nice and the joints were rock and i mean rock hard. I think its a good product I may use it every time I get my stuff from tec, I did notice i didn't dig out joints when washing it, I tend to dig when I use permacolor.

stile45
09-23-2012, 09:19 AM
I think I will wait fir the new and improved version that will come out . It seems thats what always happens when a new product comes to market . Speaking from past experince I have seem that many times over the years . For the record I have installed Power grout and had no issues , but not in a shower area. The last thing you want to hear is customer complaints ,and you dont have a fix because of some product issues beyond your control.

Dobri
10-10-2012, 07:56 PM
I used power grout for the first time few weeks ago and like it a lot. It reminds of permacolor. I've used it on a bathroom floor and now I have a shower pan to do but after reading here the problems some of the guys have with the grout washing out of the joints I'm actually not sure if I want to use it. Is there any update on the problem, causes etc?

bctile601
10-11-2012, 06:15 AM
I was thinking of calling my TEC rep, Sean ( excellent rep ) but maybe I'll post this question here first.
OK, so yeah, the TEC PowerGrout is here, claims to be great, has good testing, and I have been using it for many applications.
I have a larger project to begin and one of the questions raised by the client was type of grout in their residential steam shower. I casually asked the distributor manager about the Wedi walls needing a vapor coating, his answer was that it would need if it were a commercial steamer under constant use, residentially not really, and be sure to use the PowerGrout ....

I would usually use Mapei Opticolor for the shower floors, and matching UltraColor grout on the shower walls. He said to use PowerGrout for all of it, even in the steamer.

Should we use PowerGrout in the residential steam shower ?

Should we use PowerGrout for shower floor ( mosaics ) ?

BTW I do like the grout, a little stinky, a little bit funny pot life ( gets sticky ), but good product.

tilelayer
10-11-2012, 06:35 PM
I did a steamer and Laticrete wanted permacolor in order to validate the warranty. I would call Tec and ask them. Sean is our rep also.

OwnerInVA
12-12-2012, 01:51 PM
Hello - Was wondering if I can intrude on this conversation: my tile dealer is pushing TEC Power Grout not sure if it's PG or PG RTU.

Can some1 tell me the differences?

Does a GroutBoost additive need to be added?

Also, is this a direct competitor to the vaunted Laticrete Permacolor or even Spectralock (http://www.tecpowergrout.com/test-results)?

tilelayer
12-12-2012, 03:13 PM
I would stay away from RTU, I like the powergrout it mixes with water.

Eschbach
12-12-2012, 05:26 PM
You dont need an additive.I like the PG because it is ready for traffic in 4 hours and the color is super consistent.

tileaz
12-13-2012, 11:18 AM
Just finished my house using power grout on all of the floor tile. In one bathroom where we grouted white on the floor(wife's idea) The plumber spilled some stuff??? on the grout. The "stain" came out with a little bit of effort. I am very happy with the results of all the grout on the floors. The walls were all grouted with Customs Prism(better match to the tile) and I sealed all of it with aqua mix. I will upload pictures as soon as we finish moving.:twitch:

Grovertile
12-21-2012, 06:20 AM
I just had my first issue with this product. We've installed tens of thousands of feet with no problem. Last week I grouted a slate bathroom and thus week the owner was cleaning it with a damp cotton towel and had major color and material loss. Not Happy and interested to see Tecs response to remedy the problem when they obviously know about it....
Posted via Mobile Device

Erin from TEC®
12-21-2012, 12:18 PM
Thanks for reaching out Dane. That’s great that you’ve had many successful installations with POWER GROUT®. So sorry that you’re concerned about this most recent one. I understand that our technical support team reached out to you to provide their recommendation on how to address your installation challenge. Please give us a call at 800-832-9023 if you have any other questions. We’re happy to help!

Grovertile
12-21-2012, 05:35 PM
I did receive a call immediately this mornindayg from Tec support. After talking with support I did not get the general impression that the problem is completely understood or solved. A damp cure and sealing a product that is supposed to be easy and highly stain resistant seems like quite the Oxy moron.....:laugh2:

Grovertile
01-19-2013, 04:41 PM
I started the damp cure processes and have almost total pigment loss, I also have what looks like latex/polymer migration. The shower is natural stone and the homeowner has said day one not wanted a sealer on the product, hence using power grout. I have a beautiful installation that is now a failure and have no confidence in this product. Pictures of this messes to follow. Save yourself the headache and don't use this product until Tec figures out what is wrong with their product.

bctile601
01-26-2013, 06:02 AM
We use the TEC PowerGrout most of the time now, never an issue. In fact I think it cleans up better than regular cement grout.

Damp Cure ? :scratch:

Floorit
01-27-2013, 04:54 PM
I used the Power Grout for the first time a couple of weeks ago. First, I was surprised by the amount of dust when mixing. A vacuum is definitely required. Also, the "chemical" smell made me wonder just what I was inhaling. Not that it could possibly be bad for me.

As for the use of the grout, it mixed and spread well, filled the joints well and the initial clean went well. I had no issues with color or joint fullness.

However, when I returned the next day, it appeared the tile had a "film/haze" close to the joints similar to the film left over after using epoxy grouts. I eventually had to use a vinegar solution to clean the tile and remove the film.

My question is has anyone else had this film issue? And, how did you clean it?

tileguynky
01-27-2013, 07:33 PM
After you finished grouting, did you go back 30-60 minutes later and buff the floor?

This is the last step on the instructions. I noticed that when we started using PG, we did not do this step and had the haze issue like you described.

tilelayer
01-27-2013, 07:45 PM
You gotta spread it, let it set up and then clean it with barely any water. Then it will haze up and you buff it with super muscle strength and the job is done. It is a workout though to buff it.

Grovertile
01-27-2013, 08:00 PM
We have installed a lot of power grout. Love the working properties, cleans easy, color consistency is incredible. The problem I have with it is that there is a known problem with the product, that has a band aid fix. The chance that a fifty dollar bag of grout is going to ruin a 4k shower is too big of a risk for me.

ss3964spd
01-28-2013, 02:09 PM
I just used PG 550 on my back splash.

I'm not a pro, just a DIY'er. Because I don't have the skills/knack/or perhaps brains I found the stuff a little difficult to work with.

I started with a 10Lb bag. Bought a good kitchen scale and measure out 5Lbs, then measured out 13oz of water. I followed the mixing directions to a T and it seemed to mix up well, if a little stiff.

It didn't spread very well for me, and it didn't seem to hold onto a rubber float very well. It also had, what I felt was, a fairly short pot life. I probably dumped 2.5 lbs of the 5 I mixed.

I re-grouped the next day. Measured out 2.5 Lbs of grout and 7oz of water - just a little more water than directions specified. Mixed up fine, a little looser. Switched to a rubber epoxy type float and had a much better time of it. Stuck to the float much better, spread easier, and had noticably longer pot life. Color match from one batch to another was really, really, good.

Thankfully I didn't have any issues cleaning it. Waited about 30 minutes, used a very well wrung sponge, and it came off easily without pulling any grout from the joints. Let it sit for another 10 or 15 minutes and hit it with the sponge again. Let it sit for 60 ish minutes and buffed it with a barely damp towel. Should be noted, however, that the tile is limestone and I had already applied 3 coats of sealer before grouting. Finally, it did not scratch the 1X1 glass accents at all.

muskymike
01-28-2013, 05:20 PM
As I have said on here before. Power Grout is all I use. Never hadda problem wiping or trying to get the haze off. I love the stuff. :)

Brad Denny
03-17-2013, 07:55 PM
I wanted to give my take on this product. Kudos to James Woelfel (tileaz) for the advice.

We recently did a 3500 s/f job with 8"x48" porcelain that mimicked hand-scraped wood planks where we all (two installers and three helpers) used TEC Power Grout for the first time.

The porcelain install was over Laticrete 9235. I had heard some reports that PG needs extra moisture to cure properly and this particular job was a typical rush, so we installed a section, grouted it, then covered with poly and masonite for the other trades to get on it. Normally we wouldn't cover a floor so soon, but with this it seemed that slowing down the rate of moisture loss could be a good thing. We proceeded to tile and grout in three large sections. If I remember correctly, we used about 6-7 25 lbs bags per section. Once it was covered, we didn't see the floor for a few weeks. It was a gamble, but it turned out really well in the end.

For the actual grout install, we mixed the first bag attempting to follow the manufacturer's instructions. I had two guys working on it, but there was no way that they could possibly get a whole bag spread before the material set up. Then, when they dropped back to wash, they couldn't scrub it hard enough to get the grout off the tile. Needless to say, the first batch was a disaster. I had to end up flooding the floor and using a coarse black pad on the buffer to loosen it. At the end of the job, we had to go back and tool a few joints in that one section.

For the remainder of the floor, the following is the process we used. It goes against what TEC recommends, but knock on wood, it sure does look great and feels hard to the touch, and is the only way that I could see large production from this product.


Divide the recipe in half mixing only 12.5 lbs and using just a bit over 1 quart of water to mix.
Mix with timer following the directions carefully.
While waiting for slaking, lightly damp mop area to be grouted.
Once finally mixed we used three guys to spread.
Almost immediately, but confirming with finger transfer test, we sprinkled water over the entire area and buffed with white nylon pad.
As soon as the buffer left enough room to start working, two guys would use very dry sponges and water to tool and pick up the excess grout.
In each section it took four buckets of water to get the area clean.


We repeated this process and was able to grout about 1500 s/f in four hours with three guys. I did have to clean the white pad, buckets, and floats thoroughly each time to prevent build up/contamination.

For the final clean, almost three weeks after the first tile was laid, all the plastic and masonite was removed and floor was swept and vac'ed. I used another clean white nylon pad on the buffer, water, and a squeegee vac to loosen and pick up the haze, then finished with a microfiber mop and clean water.

The consistency was great, and the joints nice and full. The clean up was a breeze and it didn't seem like a lot of color was leeching out. The microfiber mop had hardly any tint to it once finished with 3500s/f.

I would use the product again, but believe TEC should have some clearer instructions or should scrap packaging it in anything over 10 lbs. :D

cwilde72
03-17-2013, 08:36 PM
How was the color consistency from batch to batch?? Section to section??

Brad Denny
03-17-2013, 08:41 PM
Couldn't see any visible differences. The lighting in the room is very different from area to area, but I don't think you'd see much if any even with full on consistent light.

tilelayer
03-18-2013, 05:19 AM
We use more water then it calls for, it does dry fast. After using it and Permacolor I think Permacolor is more stable.

swdale tiling
03-18-2013, 08:27 AM
I have used PG on my jobs for the last year. Never (should never say never, I guess), had a problem with it. The first time I used it I mixed it up a little stiff and did have a difficult time spreading it, but the results were great. I had been using QuartzLock and this is by far more user friendly. Ever since then, I have mixed it up according to the manufactures directions and couldn't be more impressed with it. I guess all it takes is one bad experience with a product and it can get a bad name.

The question is...and not accusing anybody of this, but were the manufactures directions followed to a T. I have been guilty of this before.

Now I did have an issue with Grout boost mixed with AccuColor, but I guess that is for another thread.:tup2:

Everybody have a great week and happy tiling. :yipee:

Brad Denny
03-18-2013, 09:00 AM
Valid question Steve. Long answer, yes. I should have taken a picture of our mixing station, but we had scales, timer, super clean buckets, cold clean water, and low RPM drill. I initially found the most level spot and a gauged bucket to measure the water, weighed it, then went by weight the rest of the day. The floor temp was ~65° and though I didn't get a reading the humidity seemed average. I seem to remember 45 minutes as the time it took from start to finish each batch, so I need to look back and amend my figures for time and coverage. When I figure that out I'll post up.

Anything over 250 s/f would seem to demand lots of hands and I can't imagine mixing a whole 25lb bag feasible. That would be a great amendment to the instructions.

OwnerInVA
07-08-2013, 10:15 AM
Any updates on the flaking issues with the TEC Power Grout recently?

Specifically, if the seal repair suggested by TEC has worked.

Ken
07-08-2013, 07:26 PM
Power Grout is.. absolutely amazing.

Last week Wednesday night, myself and another installer grouted ~1600sqf or so.. two bags did it.. 14 buckets of clean washing water.. 8 sponges..

Mixed each 25 lb bag with exactly 2.25 quarts of water, mixed, slaked and re-mixed for directed duration's..

We both smeared out the entire bag before going back to wash it. Using our dry hand, we firmly pressed our hand onto the face of the tile to see if the grout transferred to our hands.. so long as it did, we kept washing.

The grout joints were seriously some of the fullest grout joints I've ever seen on a job.

Erin, it's simply an amazing product.. and I proudly wear the TEC logo on my Welch Tile & Marble work shirt.

tilelayer
07-08-2013, 07:37 PM
Ken,

We use it, i find it a bear to wash of the tile, i workout and a half. Maybe I am doing something wrong. The grout joint are full, and you do need a dry sponge. I dunno....I suck

Ken
07-09-2013, 06:23 PM
I don't find it tough to wash at all.. of course, with any cement based grout, I typically let it get really really hard before I start washing it, depending on the material being grouted of course.

But with say, porcelain or a glazed ceramic.. I'll let that grout cook for an hour before I even touch it with a wet sponge. :)

K_Tile
07-09-2013, 07:08 PM
I typically let it get really really hard before I start washing it,

Not power grout related...

When we do night remodels for one of our big dept store clients, wash water can be a big problem in a mall (specially 20,000+ sf). We will spread the grout, scrape clean with grout float and then dry buff the floor with a buffer. Nice full grout joints and no water to dispose of.

Another commercial hack method!!!

Eschbach
07-09-2013, 07:18 PM
I float the grout and maybe give it 10 minutes and clean it well.It is ready for traffic in 4 hours so it goes off fast.

Ken
07-09-2013, 07:55 PM
Kevin, that's hardly a hack.. it's actually a great way to grout if you ask me..

Ken
07-09-2013, 07:59 PM
I float the grout and maybe give it 10 minutes and clean it well.It is ready for traffic in 4 hours so it goes off fast.


Wow, only 10 minutes? You know how to tell if it's ready? Press your hand over top of a grout joint and lift it off. If the grout transfers to your hand it's not ready to wash yet. There hasn't been a grout, even epoxy, that I've spread and then came back as soon as 10 minutes later to wash it off. Last week I grouted some 24"x24" tiles with an 1/8" grout joint, got about ~840 square feet out of one bag of grout mixed with exactly 2 quarts of water. By the time we got back to where we started spreading (Only two of us grouted, spread and wash), it was over an hour..

We seriously let the stuff get rock hard before washing. Fullest grout joints ever... except if you grout a stone floor and then hone it. :P

Eschbach
07-09-2013, 08:48 PM
I am very well aware how to check if grout is ready to be cleaned.It is a fast setting grout.It dries in the bucket in less than an hour.I only mix about 3 to 4 cups of grout at a time and then wash everything in between batches.

schmoggles
11-05-2013, 07:42 AM
Hi Folks,

I wanted to get some thoughts on the possible poor performance of TEC's Power Grout.

The product's first claim is: "Highly stain resistant, never needs sealing"

So, we took the Kool-aid when doing the main floor bath... and I have my doubts about this claim.

I've used sanded grouts before, specifically TEC's previous sanded grout and then spent time sealing all of it... and to date, in these rooms liquid still beads up on the grout.

Now, this stuff seems to suck up liquid just like UN-sealed grout. I've attached a shot of the an area in the shower after use, and the floor which already is showing signs of staining it seems.

How "stain resistant" can this be, if it sucks liquids up like a sponge.... if I poured red wine on this grout... or other fluids typically found in a bathroom... what do you think would happen?

John Bridge
11-05-2013, 12:07 PM
Hi Dave,

Can you give us a shot of a wider area, say, the whole shower floor? :)

schmoggles
11-05-2013, 06:42 PM
I thought you might call me out on that :) I have been planning to take some nice reveal shots to officially post, but here were a few nearing the end from the camera on the cell phone...

tilelayer
11-05-2013, 07:14 PM
I must chime in. I went back to a job I grouted with power grout from a year ago. It was a second floor full bathroom. The grout was filthy. I don't know about this stuff. The local supply house is pushing it with every job and it's expensive as hell. Time will tell...

schmoggles
11-05-2013, 07:47 PM
FYI - I have sent an inquiry to HB Fuller - I will update this thread with their response.
:corn:

HomeWhereBorn
11-05-2013, 11:21 PM
We are just putting the finishing touches on our bath remodel (tiled tub surround) - with the help of a whole lotta research on this forum. All went well, as we have been attentive to methods used here - except we didn't check out specifics on the grout. Wouldn't ya know it, our job used Power Grout, which our installer recommended, as he stated he's had superb results. We discovered this thread just as the grout was curing after install, as we were researching how best to care for the new tile job and whether we needed to seal or treat the job post install.

So we gave the grout job a bit of a test run first - nine days cure time after the grout job was done - when we tested out the new shower rig. We allowed the shower to run for about a minute or so, then checked the grout on the shower walls. Sure enough, a finger rub along the grout lines yielded a rather substantial layer of residue on the finger, and a bit of staining of the "sand" color running down into the tub.

Having read this thread before the test, we knew what to do if there was an issue. We obtained a bottle of TEC acrylic grout additive as described on page three of this thread, and applied three applications to soak the grout lines thoroughly. Then we allowed another week to re-cure, and now the grout seems solid - even when washing with a white rag there's no residue nor any sign of the tannish "sand" color on the rag.

But I did want to ask the forum pros if there's any other recommended treatment of the tile job before we begin any regular use. I get the impression that the grout additive functions as a grout sealer, but wanted to check here and see if in fact that's true - or if I should treat the tile or grout with any waterproofing methods before we proceed to use the new bathroom.

I intend to start a thread showing off the job and discussing what we learned here, but since we had an issue with Power Grout specifically I thought it best to mention this here.

Thanks in advance....this forum is a superb resource.

John Bridge
11-06-2013, 05:31 AM
Hi Dave, :)

No matter the system used, the grout or any other aspect of the tile installation, the number on item on your care and maintenance list should be to completely towel dry the shower each and every day after its final use. Do this, and you'll have not problems.

I don't think you'll need any further sealing of the grout. :)

HomeWhereBorn
11-06-2013, 09:45 AM
Thank you very much, John - much appreciated.

I do have a question related to this.

In my research for doing this project - in addition to here - I ran into a fellow on YouTube who posts some pretty extensive videos on his tile process (TileMaster GA). In one of his videos related to grout, he shows a product he mixes with his grout, called "StainBlocker" - a grout hardener and stain inhibitor/increases grout flexibilty and so forth, that seems strikingly similar to the TEC acrylic grout additive we're discussing here. It has me wondering for those using TEC Power Grout if it would be a good idea, just as a form of insurance, to mix in the TEC additive with the Power Grout.

I assume that the idea behind Power Grout was to offer a grout that had similar chemicals/polymers already in the grout mix, and I assume that TEC's earlier grout offering plus the additive would offer a similar desired result we're looking for. I'm not sure if TEC still offers the previous "edition"/version of their grout, but if not it would seem that mixing the Power Grout with the TEC additive would make sure the desired results were achieved.

It seems from what I've been able to discern that the folks at TEC are scratching their heads over this issue as much as we are. That's a bit disconcerting, although it's good that there is a solution to the issue.

It seems that many here are recommending the Laticrete, and that might well be the best answer, but in our area they aren't well represented. Mapei and TEC seem to be the primary offerings around here.

Thoughts?

dhagin
11-06-2013, 11:32 AM
recommending the Laticrete

To which Laticrete grout are you referring?

John Bridge
11-06-2013, 03:07 PM
I don't think I'd be adding anything to TEC grout without the approval of TEC. :)

schmoggles
11-06-2013, 09:15 PM
Hi John,

I certainly agree that preventative maintenance such as towel wiping after each shower will certainly greatly reduce standing water which might lead to mold and mildew - however, I'm not quite sure if that process would work for the spilled red wine (or whatever staining liquid) example?

I may have to do a test and post results :)

schmoggles
11-08-2013, 09:48 PM
FYI - I have received the official response from HB Fuller regarding the concerns I had. It sounds good, still think I might have to do my own test to be completely sold (although I'm already fully committed).

Here is the reply:
To answer your question, yes we have had Power Grout tested. I’ve attached a copy of the Independent Stain Testing Results for Power Grout. Using a modified version of the test method described in CTIOA Field Report T-72, we have tested a wide variety of foods and household items and Power Grout has been effective. Our test method includes leaving stain materials on the surface for 30 minutes, then scrubbing with a nylon scrubbing pad and water.

In general, the longer you leave the stain material on the surface, the more you may need to scrub to get the stain off.

I’ve also attached a copy of our Technical Bulletin regarding the care and maintenance of Power Grout and how stains can be cleaned.

Regarding water not beading, liquids have a property called “surface tension.” This is the molecular attractive force within the liquid that results in beading. Surface tension can be compromised and beading may not occur when:

• the grout has an irregular or textured surface (even on the microscopic level)

• there is a layer of another substance on the surface of the grout (the presence of a fine film of soap, or a thin layer of dust or dirt can prevent a liquid from beading up)

• there is more than a drop or two of liquid (with a greater volume of liquid, eventually the weight of the liquid overcomes the strength of the surface tension and the bead spreads out)

Liquid left on the surface for a longer time period can eventually flow in between the grout particles. With Power Grout, every particle of the grout is “wrapped” with a protective layer throughout the thickness of the grout. So even if liquids get beyond the grout surface stains can still be lifted from between the particles and removed.

Power Grout that is wet can darken, but the stain resistance is not affected. Since grout has an irregular or textured surface (even on the microscopic level) and substances may accumulate on the surface of the grout (a fine film of soap, or a thin layer of dust or dirt) water can wet-out the surface, creating a darker appearance.

Water left on the surface for a longer time period can eventually migrate in between the grout particles, but as I mentioned earlier, since every particle of the grout is “wrapped” with a protective layer throughout the thickness of the grout, is still has its stain resistant properties.

If you would prefer Power Grout not darken when it’s wet, an approved sealer can be applied to enhance the surface beading effect and minimize darkening of the grout surface when wet. The following sealers are approved for use over Power Grout:

• All TEC sealers
• Miracle Super Seal
• Aqua Mix Enrich n Seal
• Aqua Mix Sealer’s Choice Gold
• Tile Lab Penetrating Sealer
• Tile Guard 1-Step Grout Sealer (Homax)
• Dupont Aerosol Grout Sealer
• Dupont Water-based Aerosol Grout Sealer
• Dupont Quik-Seal Aerosol Grout Sealer
• Dupont Grout Sealer
• Dupont Premium Stone Sealer

Note: Regarding the Quik-Seal Aerosol Grout Sealer - Dupont allows application on the grout after only 2 hours but for best results, wait 4 hours. We do not recommend applying to grout at 2 hours (grout is not set at 2 hours). Grout should be allowed to cure a minimum of 4 hours before applying this sealer.

John Bridge
11-09-2013, 07:02 AM
Everything there makes sense. I'm not concerned when grout appears wet as the shower is used. That wetness, however, should disappear within an hour or so after the shower has been dried. I'm talking about grouts in general, not just Power Grout.

I don't like the aerosol type "sealers" no matter what DuPont and others might say about them. I believe that grout should cure at least 24 hours before sealing with any product, and longer is better, of course.

I thank TEC for the information. :)

MNTileGuy
01-18-2014, 06:43 AM
Bumping this thread as one of our local warehouses is about to start stocking the full line of TEC products.

I read on TEC's website about Power grout and thought, wow, this stuff might be the answer. Then I read through this thread and am not so sure. Any updates, issues, etc.?

Cost aside, I'm still thinking Spectrlock is the way to go for folks that never want to seal. No, it's not the most fun to work with, but at least it's a known commodity.

Lou_MA
01-18-2014, 07:22 AM
Brad -

I've been using PowerGrout on my last dozen projects or so, which covered a range of grout joint widths, and several different colors (standard white, birch, dove grey, mist).

No problems at all, and it met my expectations.

HS345
01-18-2014, 07:40 AM
I've used it a couple of times, not impressed. Dried blotchy for me, and hard to clean if you let it sit too long. I'll stick with Permacolor.

MNTileGuy
01-18-2014, 12:06 PM
It seems as though people on here either had a great experience with it or have had an all out failure. Doesn't give me a lot of confidence in it.

Prism is still my favorite grout. I like Ultracolor too, barring one bad batch I had a few years back. That said, they're not stain proof.

It sounds to me like the Power grout is a great concept that needs more refinement. Maybe after a couple more years of "field trials" they'll have the kinks worked out. Kind of like the pebbles in the permacolor...

schmoggles
01-18-2014, 01:40 PM
Well Brad, you must have ESP :)

Over the holidays I wanted to complete what I had stated earlier and actually run my own test.

I set up a few test items, one was a bit of left over accent tile which I stuck with some Tec fullset, then grouted later with some Tec Power Grout. I also chose to bore a hole in another bit of wood and just will it with grout, making a depression so that later my test staining liquid would stay soaking.

I let these set for over 14 days... and today is the day I was going to do the test... then you're BUMP came in this morning... made me chuckle. Anyway, I digress...

I wanted to follow the same procedure as outlined in Tec's laboratory stain test. But to keep things simple, I decided to use Red wine as my sole stain liquid. I chose to use my tile test for only a 15 minute soak (half of Tec's test time), while leaving the other running for 30 min.

Interesting results.

Upon blotting off the wine on the tile after 15 min, most of the stain was also already gone. I then as per their instructions used warm water and a soft cloth to wipe the grout, which did totally remove the remaining stain! However, it seemed perhaps some grout also wiped out. None-the-less, it appears to perform as per the stain claim.

I then did the same for the 30 min test... now, as there was a larger area of grout here, I was able to wipe with the width of my finger... it absolutely showed that the stain was being removed along with the top layer of grout... not much, but you can see it on the towel in the photos.

I will let these dry now for 24h as per Tec's tests... but it does seem that the grout may not be fully hardened after 14 days. I will attempt to re-test the performance down the road to see if there's any difference with the grout's hardness.

Jayme568
01-18-2014, 02:50 PM
Maybe i'm partial but I have not used a cementious grout that performs like Mapei Ultra Color Plus. It sets up fast, color consistent, wipes off nice, stays nice and high in the joints. I know a lot of it is all in what you are accustomed to but i've used all the grouts and have had only 1 problem with Mapei. Permacolor is a VERY close second. TEC grout products have always disapointed me in one aspect or the other. The old accucolor just didn't stand up to abuse and the XT was very temperature sensitive and would take off at different rates. Permacolor seems very consistent, the only problem I have had with it is in grout joints over 1/8" it seems to get bubbles that pop in the grout, but that could be me. After reading some of the problems with the Power grout I will be sticking with Ultracolor and Permacolor.

tilelayer
01-18-2014, 02:53 PM
Dave before you did you test did you buff the haze?

schmoggles
01-18-2014, 08:32 PM
Hi Derrick,

I had, although, agreeably that piece is probably not a completely fair test as the amount of grout if far wider than what would be applied in real-world applications. Having said that, there was a small amount I saw on the towel with the tile too, but not enough to show easily on-camera.

Good point though, it could have been haze as I had not given it a wipe a moment prior to the test (but I had several times a few weeks earlier). But it also seemed the more I wiped, more would come off too.

I will give it another wipe in a few day to see what happens.

danika
02-23-2014, 12:22 PM
My husband, DIY'er used tec power grout for a floor for our boarding kennel. He carefully prepared the grout and followed the manufacturers instructions, however, as in some of the posts here, the grout bleeds color and is even loosing sand when wet. The company sent out the additive. The instructions were to apply two coats and saturate the grout joints. He did as directed waiting a day between coats. On the third day although it was a little better, it was still bleeding color. We were told to apply a third coat. We did this hoping at last that everything would be open once more for business. DH used the hose to spray down the floor and guess what... it is once more running, sandy and I could just cry! Now what? How can they not have this problem figured out after all this time? How can a company keep selling something that is flawed. I wish I saw this forum before we purchased this stuff. Any help out there?:confused:

TheMaxwellInn
02-23-2014, 12:58 PM
I had issues with TEC PowerGrout scratching the tiles when I used a high glaze FloridaTile subway 3x6. Stuff spreads like cement, I should have known it would be problematic with the glazed tile, but the supply house recommended it... go figure. Had the place take it back, not very impressed whatsoever with the product, especially for the cost.

Have switched to Mapei FlexColor CQ and it kicks all kinds of ass compared to both PowerGrout and FusionPro.

nelsonkoehn
02-23-2014, 06:21 PM
Have switched to Mapei FlexColor CQ and it kicks all kinds of ass compared to both PowerGrout and FusionPro.

And where and how did you git-a-holt-u-dis? :shrug: It was just released a few weeks ago, and some of us have been awaiting it. You be mekin' me jealous :wohoo:

Lump
02-23-2014, 06:24 PM
Soon there will be a day where Portland cement and pigmented grouts will be a thing of the past.......stick with Tecnicolor.

TheMaxwellInn
02-23-2014, 06:48 PM
And where and how did you git-a-holt-u-dis? It was just released a few weeks ago, and some of us have been awaiting it. You be mekin' me jealous

They have a couple colors "completed" right now. Based on a pretty serious time constraint, I was able to get ahold of a trial bucket. The issue I had with the TEC and FusionPro really backed me into a corner - scratched tiles and we reopen March 26 with four bathrooms to go (DIY - 3x6 subway in brick pattern with accent strips of 1" colored glass tile). The FlexColor CQ is light, easy to spread, seems to set quick and solid.

Wetting down tile before is important, as well as wringing as much water out of your sponge as possible for the first wipe down. If you get too much water on it during the first wipe, some of the color will run on tile seams and it dries quick, meaning cleaning it off takes some real elbow grease. The residue it left wiped off of the glass tiles very easily, which really impressed me. Also, fills seams easily and does NOT want to pull back out as you pull the float over it, at any angle.

All in all, seriously, it kicks ass.

Higher Standard Tile
02-23-2014, 06:57 PM
I had issues with TEC PowerGrout scratching the tiles when I used a high glaze FloridaTile subway 3x6.


May scratch polished marble, glass or metal tile. Follow tile manufacturer/
fabricator recommendations or test a small area prior to use to determine
suitability.

http://www.tecspecialty.com/products/grouts/advance-performance-grout/Power-Grout-Ultimate-Performance-Grout.html

I've never used Power Grout but any grout with sand in it has the potential to scratch some tiles, that is why it is always good to do a test first. :)

TheMaxwellInn
02-23-2014, 07:08 PM
:)

http://www.tecspecialty.com/products...nce-Grout.html

I've never used Power Grout but any grout with sand in it has the potential to scratch some tiles, that is why it is always good to do a test first.

Yeah, just figured I could trust the supply house... learned the hard way. Used test boards from then on out, as this tile is finicky for sure!

Higher Standard Tile
02-23-2014, 07:18 PM
Glad you did a test board first. :)

Eschbach
02-23-2014, 07:35 PM
I have been using Power grout for 2 years now.I love the stuff.It sets up super fast and you cannot wash out the color if you tried.
I use it on ceramic,porcelain and natural stone and never had problems.You have to move quickly because it sets up fast.

TheMaxwellInn
02-23-2014, 09:54 PM
Glad you did a test board first. :)


Yeah, wrecking one bathroom was enough :) CX recommended it, and I used that from there on out... otherwise, the FusionPro would've been another mistake...

cx
02-23-2014, 11:22 PM
Peter, if you'll visit our FAQ you'll find a very brief tutorial showing how to properly attribute quotes you post here on the forums. Very simple once you see it. :)

TheMaxwellInn
02-24-2014, 08:31 AM
Peter, if you'll visit our FAQ you'll find a very brief tutorial showing how to properly attribute quotes you post here on the forums. Very simple once you see it.

:)

Thanks!

nitrojane
04-11-2014, 12:42 AM
Hi all,

I'm another DIYer here, and my husband and I finished grouting the bathroom two weeks ago. Today we decided to test the shower for the first time, and the grout bleeding situation as mentioned in many of these posts has occurred around our 3 x 6 glazed subway tiles.

It seems as though this product has been around for a number of years, and was specifically recommended to us by our Lowe's associate due to the ease of use and lack of sealing. We figured given the time it would save that it would be an excellent product to work with.

We followed all the instructions meticulously, and yet this product obviously continues to fail in wet areas. Even if it's just a small number of people experiencing this problem, there needs to be some correction done by TEC on this.

Bathrooms are incredibly expensive to install, and having to spend further time and money fixing this problem is incredibly frustrating. Both my husband and I took time out of work to install our bathroom, and now that we're back at work we don't have the time to fix this ourselves.

We also spent three years saving to complete this project. We can't afford a contractor to come and fix it for us, so what do we do? I guess I'll be calling TEC in the morning to discuss how they will fix this problem.

Lump
04-11-2014, 03:14 AM
Janey, it has been Said here before by I believe by Guezeman (spelling?), that the last chance to ruin a perfectly good tile job is the grouting aspect.

You are on the right track to call Tec technical support, they will help you correct the issue. Please give more feedback on the final results.

Just remember you are talking to another human on the other line so treat them like you would want to be treated......just sayin. :goodluck:

Eschbach
04-11-2014, 08:13 AM
I would like to hear your feedback also.I use Powergrout frequently and have not expirienced those issues.

Paramount Installer
04-11-2014, 07:15 PM
My experience with Power grout was to watch over-washing the product. If you follow the directions(who knew?) that won't be a problem. I don't like the fact they recommend it for unsanded applications as well. I did a marble bathroom where it was specified, and didn't like the gritty appearance of the joints.:D

Eschbach
04-12-2014, 06:19 AM
I have found with Powergrout that you can over wash the joints or even wash too soon and it still comes out rock hard and retains its color.

I find it easy to work with because it dries so fast.You will lose buckets and tools if you do not clean them right away.

muskymike
04-12-2014, 07:47 AM
Hi Janey, sorry to hear about your problem. I have been using Powergrout exclusively since it came out, 2 or 3 years now. I have never had a problem with it especially in a shower. I would think if there was a problem the customer would notify me.

I find it easy to work with because it dries so fast.You will lose buckets and tools if you do not clean them right away. No kiddin eh?:shades: I finished a job a couple weeks back and left my skipper bucket with the water in it. The HO tried to clean it a couple days later and there is like an inch of dried grout on the bottom. This stuff sets up under water!:dance:

mullet
05-30-2014, 12:43 PM
Is there anything you can do for efflorescence in this grout, I used the espresso and it's getting lighter?

figaro
06-23-2014, 06:53 PM
I was thinking of giving this stuff a try on a couple of jobs both having showers until I read this thread. Sounds a little too quirky too me. Any conclusions ever made on these problems?

Eschbach
06-25-2014, 08:45 PM
I still use it weekly and have had zero issues.

figaro
06-27-2014, 06:42 PM
Just a follow up. Ended up using Power Grout for the first time on a small bath. I was reluctant because of some of the reviews I'd read here and other places.
But they had the right color and needed something to work in 1/16" joints and not having to seal was a plus.
Only mixed half of a 7lb bag. Because I was nervous I followed the instructions to a T instead of winging it like I usually do. Felt pretty loose and was worried I might of added too much water. But turned out fine and even cleaned up well which was the other thing I was worried about on my textured porcelain floor tile. Bottom line, going to use it on the next bigger bathroom. same color (light pewter). Any problems and I'll let you guys know but feel a lot better about it now.