Saltillo Tile Installation

[John Bridge]

Hope I'm not late posting this. I had to stop off and respond to Dave G.'s post.

Anyway, I don't agree that Saltillo tiles should be sealed prior to handling or installation, because I was taught to install them wet. The sealer would short-circuit the process.

The folks who pre-seal are usually the ones who are asking questions about how to get rid of efflorescence after the fact, and of course, there really isn't any effective way to cure efflorescence. You can prevent it in most cases, though, by doing the wet installation, allowing the floor to completely dry (about three weeks) and then doing the sealing and finishing.

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[kalford]

O.K. I gotcha.I haven't had the pleasure of installing any Saltillo.Not much call for it up here.A stter I was talking to once told me about the sealing but what you said makes sense.
Is there any tile that you would seal prior to installing?

[John Bridge]

About as close as I come to pre-sealing is using grout release once in a while.

I'd like to tell you just a little more about Saltillo (while Dave G. is eating his supper). It's enjoying a rebirth. It'll get to you before long.

The stuff is like the thirstiest sponge you can imagine -- it's like a poultice. Sucks up about two or three times its weight in water before it's sated.

Therefore, if you put it on masonry substrate dry, it will suck up everything in the world out of that substrate in the first few minutes it lays there. It'll gather everything bad from the thin set and from the slab or mortar bed below.

Additionally, the clay itself contains contaminents. Quality control in Saltillo is non-existent. Lime "pops" are commonplace, and many times efflorescence is present in the individual tiles as you receive them (we cull those out).

To end this thing, we stack the tiles out in the driveway and soak them with the garden hose, and then allow them to drain. Then we install them with "regular" thin set.

[kalford]

When you say you let them drain you don't mean dry do you.I gather that they need to be "damp" when you set them.What about staining?

[John Bridge]

That's correct. Damp. Once soaked and drained, they'll remain damp for several days. If the job goes more than a couple days, and the tiles appear to be drying, hit them again with the hose.

Staining, if you're referring to tinting the tiles during the finish process, isn't done much anymore. People seem to want the natural clay look of the pavers.

A problem with staining the tiles is that everytime you get a chip or a nick in a tile, the raw clay shows through. With a simple clear finish you don't have this problem.

[chip]

When you say regular thin set, do you mean dry set, not a polymer/latex modified thin set?

And now that I think of it, it seems that all the manufactures require a clean, dry, surface. I'm sure it works but it is contrary. Maybe you should send this installation method to ANSI? SORRY!

Art

[Bri]

I've never tried that soaking method..sound like a good idea...usually the tile has so much dirt on the bottom that I use a sponge to wash the backs just before installation...haven't had a problem yet.....and I use modified thin set...I mean..why not? It would dry slower, and that's what we want..right?

Brian

[John Bridge]

Art,

You are not sorry; you love this stuff :-)

By the way, Dave G. told me it took him an hour and a half to type all that stuff last night. I sent him a nice thank you note.

I suppose the installation would be better using modified thin set, but I've never done it. Generally, you get only about 30 to 35 feet per sack with Saltillo. Adds up in a hurry. The regular old thinset sticks fine to the backs of the (damp) tiles. You can prime the concrete with latex to make sure of a bond there, but really all you need do is clean it thoroughly and burn the stuff in well.

Movement joints are an absolute must on large areas. The last job I did, I left joints in all the openings going from room to room and one across the middle of the large room, which was about 30 ft. long.

Outdoors I of course use modified for everything. But remember. Don't any of you Northerners consider Saltillo outside. There's not enough sealer out there to make the stuff frostproof.

[KJ]

Forgive me for I'm a 'newbie' at this mode of communication. I'm in the middle of a saltillo tile install (small bathroom), and aside from severing the cord of the drill when mixing thinset (OK, I admit to being a girl, and the thing just got away from me!!), everything has gone well.

I'm now on to sealing (or not), grouting, and final sealing. Here in Phx,AZ, we use lots of this stuff, but I get lots of experts advice...all different.

The tile has been down for more than 3 weeks (it took 2 weeks to get the drill cord repaired!!! haha), and I'm nervous about the grouting process. The co who sold me the tile tells me to use a silicone penetrating pre-sealer. Let dry for 4 hours, grout, and then apply several coats of Liquid Platinum to get a real shiny finish (the look I prefer; I used polyurethane on tile throughout the rest of the house, which had been installed long ago).

The other "experts" have given me 8 pages of instructions and say to use "to clean the tile with about 6 different cleaners, then use grout eze, grout, clean again and LEAVE for another 2 weeks, clean again and apply Tile N Oil.

My objective is pretty simple: (1) not screw it up too badly and (2) have it look OK. I am NOT planning to live in it another 100 years and surely the next buyer will probably tear it out anyway. I like the 'less than perfect' look of saltillo and am not interested in winning any awards for the best-looking bathroom in town.

So my questions are: (1) suggestions from you pro's as to best approach; (2) do I have to let tile, after grouting, set for another 2 weeks' time b/4 drying; and (3) if I use the silicone as a pre-sealer, am I limited to the final sealer; and (4) SORRY if this makes you professionals cry, I want to make the tile look "older" so more compatible w/the rest of the house. Can I use various household items to lighten/darken the tile (as one would to try to make a piece of furniture look 'antiqued') b/4 I seal? I'd rather it look older and worn than brand new?

I realize these are lots of questions, but I am very grateful for any feedback or assistance.

[John Bridge]

Hi KJ, Welcome aboard. You know you've drudged up a thread that is five years old, don't ya? :) And please give us a first name.

I don't think you need all those various cleaning and sealing products at all. I'm not clear on what if anything you've put on the tiles already. Basically, I would grout, clean, let dry a couple weeks, then seal with penetrating sealer, any old penetrating sealer. What it does is fill the spaces inside the pavers so they don't soak up the top finish when you apply it.

And I would use an acrylic top finish because it's very tough, tougher than polyurethane. Aquamix makes a good one.

http://www.aquamix.com

[JTG]

KJ
When I install these tile I always seal with Custom Tile Lab Grout and Tile sealer usually two coats and then a final seal after waiting 72 hours with Tile Lab Gloss or Matt sealer depending on look customer wants. When putting on the pre grout sealer take your time to prevent the sealer getting between the tile. This can prevent the grout from sticking to the tile well.
When grouting make sure to get the tile damp where the grout is going to be sticking.
Had never heard of stacking in driveway and washing down the tile. I like that idea.
Good Luck
JTG

[John Bridge]

Jerry,

Stacking in the driveway was covered in Ceramic Tile Setting, McGraw-Hill, 1992 by yours truly. :D

[Davy]

A big mud box works well too. We stack the tiles in edge ways and fill it up with water. Only takes about 10-15 minutes and they are ready to pull out and let drain. :)