TCA, ANSI, ISO, ASTM and whatever

[Dave Gobis]

OK, let me have it. I'm a voting member of both TCA and ANSI A-108-99 committees,as well as currently conducting study on vapor/akalinity and EWP products. Was a Director of NTCA for 5 years, stepping down in 1999 after I sold my business, but a current member of the NTCA Technical Committee. I don't have the time or typing ability to go back and answer all the mis-informed responses of the threads I have read. But if you want short and sweet answers to any questions related to the above documents, ask. I do a TCA/ANSI presentation every two weeks (including the current week)and recently did the sessions at Coverings for TCA. I will also get a response from Bob Daniels,Executive Director of TCA if warranted by the question. We have lunch frequently, no problem. flatile, I am meeting with Kevin, the ANSI/ISO delegate and head of the backer board committee on Friday. You all want some facts, lets go.

[Edited by Dave Gobis on 06-11-2001 at 07:58 PM]

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[John Bridge]

Okay, Dave. Didn't mean to get you riled.

C'mon, guys. Hold forth. Quite frankly, just lookin' at Dave's picture intimidates me.

[John Bridge]

One of the minor beauties of this board is that you can see how many people have looked at a post. You can also see who is on the board at any given time. And right now I see Dave G., Rob Z., Sonnie Layne, Keith A. and myself.

That means there's a lot of thinkin' and readin' going on here but not a lot of talkin', which is probably good. It also means that some of the main participants have flown the coop (or made a trip to the fridge).

But Dave, the reason I asked you over here was not for a confrontation. Hell, we can do that anytime. No, it started with an argument as to whether the TCA is in fact the "tile industry." And, as you know, I don't believe it is.

Then someone mentioned that the CTEF is the TCA. Well, that's when things got a little screwy and I called on you. And if you do find the time to read back through, you'll actually find that I said some very nice things about you.

I guess (unless someone else ponies up here) what we need is a statement as to what the TCA is -- what it does, it's history, etc. I know you're a man of concise language. Shouldn't take you more than a paragraph or two.

[Rob Z]

Hi Dave

As part of this discussion, could you describe the testing process that TCA uses to evaluate methods and products? When I was at CTEF, Michael took me over to the testing lab. I saw various test panels with notations indicating number of cycles until failure and other info.

I think that would help everyone on the forum understand how some of these standards are formalized.

Thanks,

Rob Z

[Dave Gobis]

I will do some typing off line and post. Besides, supper is waiting.....be back.

[Bud Cline]

I leave the house for a few hours on a Monday evening and look what happens!

[chip]

Thank you for inviting Dave to bail me out.

My concern was that the underlying concensus was that "I don't like being dictated to."

It just seemed that TCA and then I find NTCA were considerd the dictators and we wanted to be the dictators.

As Dave has so aptly reported, the various organizations that are watching out for all of us, are the watchdogs of the industry as well as the testing center, think tank, innovators, liasons and friends of the industry.

If you don't understand a particular specification, call and ask the various organizations that are there at your disposal. They anxiously await your calls. Nobody knows it all, so don't be afraid to ask.

Call and get to know these people, they are your friends and allies. They are there for all of us, and yes your competitors too. You owe it to yourself and your business to introduce yourself to the various organizations and make them a part of your business.

It doesn't hurt to get to know the various manufacturers representatives out there as well, and not always in a adversarial way.

John, thanks again for providing a forum like this for all of us, and provding a soap box for this "rep" to espouse all the ideas and lessons that he has learned in his brief (8 year) involvment with the floor covering industry.

Art Phenis

[John Bridge]

My pleasure, I think . . . .

[chip]

Give a darned rep a forum and he thinks it's the Academy awards.

I'm getting the hint.

Shut up, Phenis!!!!!!!!!!!!

Boy does that have a familiar ring to it.

[John Bridge]

No, Art. I told you before, it's a forum, and it wouldn't be if everyone wasn't free to speak his/her piece.

I was accused one time down on the Aussie board (InfoTile) of trying to do a draft of the Magna Carta all in one post.

[Sonnie Layne]

Well, don't get me started then John...hehehe. Actually, I'm not as well versed as the rest of you in the field of tile-setting or mud work, because my experiences pull me in far too many directions. I'm too quickly becoming a GC, and I swear I'll quit before it gets to that point.

However, I love the technical aspects of testing. I admire a group who can keep the interests of an(y) industry at best heart and keep their hands in their own pockets at the same time. An even greater appreciation is had for one who would toss themselves into a ring of lions and make no promises to get there or get out of there. Thanks Dave, but I'm not qualified to even ask questions. I just install tile on occasion (maybe once a month) and follow the recipe's given and cross reference any ANSI standards listed or required. I don't have time to read the fine print, but oh...maybe I have since I bought John's book, haha. Mostly, I follow my nose and the recommendations given by the real pro's. My dad comes to mind for wall tile, my granddad for slabs and retaining walls, JPB for mud work and showers, and all the many many true professionals for everything else (including the artsy fartsy stuff as I recall is was referred to).

I've had membership, sometimes charter membership in many organizations spanning many different interests. One thing I've found in common is that there is always some grumbling amongst members. Democracy is such a blessed representation of individualism.

I maybe do have a tech question... in neutralizing the basicity of cementitious products, say in prep for painting same, would it be proper or advisable for one to explore the use of phosphoric, carbonic or sulphuric instead of hydrochloric acid? Seems to me P acid would be plenty in agreement elementally with Ca based alkalinity, even S would be, but much less easily dealt with. Maybe I could make use of the spoils of a pickle factory with their acetic acid??? Maybe it's a question for a cement board, certainly not a paint board (I'm a painter, by the way), but thought with your experience, training and round table of thoughtful minds it's worth a shot in the dark. Kinda like a Zen Dove-hunt in the middle of a moonless night, I understand, but I'm having trouble even getting paint chemists to understand why I'd even care...

[chip]

Any relation to the great Detroit lion, Bobby?

I just went to your Profile. Just a couple of comments.

1. Why don't you get some interests?

2. quite an IQ!! Or was it an ICQ? (what is an ICQ?)

I vote for Carbonic, I used to deliver tanks of it in Detroit.

Last but not least, watch the "Artsy fartsy" comments, I'm a sensitive sort. YA, RIGHT.

JUST DON'T CALL ME RICHARD.

Art Phenis

[Sonnie Layne]

No, Bobby came from a different sort of Laynes, we do have a historic landing over the Red River between OK and TX holding our name however.

I don't have time to get any interests, my time is totally involved in chasing illusive/allusive/ellusive acquaintances on the internet.

ICQ is a cool way of contacting and talking with people real time. Not at all like a "messaging" thingy (said that way for those that just can't stand the way I say thingy). You can chat real time or via phone and video with another ICQ'er. It's real, it's now and it can be addictive which is why I don't hang out there much anymore,just have the ability to receive messages etc via any known form.

I vote for carbonic as well. I've fired up my nail guns and paint sprayers with the stuff. My main concern was with pH problems with landscape materials as this new hot shot stripper I've found has to be neutralized with an acid and I have a great admiration for the primary source of life on this planet. I intend to use the stripper in and around homes and I'm interested in different acids to buffer the base. Also, an interesting discussion came up recently about the use of HCl acid indoors and it got me thinking...

I'm the artsty fartsy, not you. I'm the one tryin to figure out how to pump chilled water into and through a planter in the middle of a large shower stall. THAT's artsy fartsy, ummm, tryin to think of who said that first...

[chip]

Probably the guy who came up with " Gene, Gene made a machine. Hank, Hank turned the crank. Joe , Joe made it go.
and Artsy, Artsy let a fartsy and blew it all a partsy.

Ok, this one is going to date you. We have establishe that you are no kin, to Bobby. How about Dick "NIGHT TRAIN"?

Well at least we haven't strayed too far off the topic?

Art

[Edited by flatile on 06-13-2001 at 07:35 AM]

[John Bridge]

Topic? What topic?