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orskier
03-30-2011, 12:23 PM
Hi all,

This is my first post on this great site. I can't think of another advice forum with such great practitioners sharing so much useful information.

I'm about to embark on my first shower project(s). We've just put an addition on the house with Master suite up and Guest suite down. Wife and I have framed, roofed, insulated, etc. the whole house over the last 15 years (with lumber milled on site) so we've got a lot of building experience -- but no showers, and just a little tile.

After lots of reading I've settled on Hydro Ban pan over mud bed. But I came to this decision too late to install Kerdi drains -the plumber glued in clamp-style drains for me. Therefore, I'm thinking about using the Kerdi adapter kit with the Hydro Ban.

There are actually two showers: one down and one up. Up is plywood subfloor, down is concrete slab (with radiant heat -- actually we have staple-up radiant upstairs too.)

Upstairs the sheet rock has just been installed (just-in-time thinking -- NOT) so I can't easily cut out the clamp drain and replace with Kerdi drain; therefore the thinking on Kerdi adpater.

Downstairs the drain is hanging out in the opening I blocked out in the slab, so trivial to cut out and replace -- eating the cost of the clamp drain and buying the Kerdi not really an issue here -- my own job.

This seems like a much better way to go than using the "divot" method with the Hydro Ban. The other option would be the NobleFlex flange product.

Advice is eagerly sought!

Thanks,
Scott

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bbcamp
03-30-2011, 12:48 PM
Scott, you can cut out the standard drain with an inside pipe cutter (Lowes has them), so you can replace the upstairs drain without removing any drywall.

You can still use a standard drain with Hydroban. Their instructions tell how that is done, or use the divot method.

orskier
03-30-2011, 01:03 PM
Thanks for the quick reply Bob. However, I'm afraid it raised another question!

1) Are you implying that it is better to cut out the clamp drain and replace with a complete Kerdi drain rather than use the Kerdi adapter?

2) I thought the divot method was *the* way to do Hydro Ban with a clamp drain, but your reply implies that it is an alternative to the method prescribed by Laticrete. (Actually, the section "Pre-Treat Drains" in the Hydro Ban installation instructions is pretty weak -- is there another source other than the PDF DS-663aus.0-0509?) Moreover, the advice in the threads I've read here seems to prefer Kerdi drain over clamp drain when possible -- thus my interest in the Kerdi adapter.

bbcamp
03-30-2011, 01:29 PM
1) The Kerdi drain fitting is superior to an adapter (either using a PVC clamping ring drain with a pre-formed fabric membrane, or Schluter's Kerdi-to-PVC drain fitting conversion kit) because of the wide bonding flange and the laterally adjustible center section. The bonding flange means that you won't have any thick deck mud ring around the drain, so the floor dries out faster and uniformly (no dark ring around the drain). The lateral adjustment allows you the freedom to set the tile where it looks best at the wall and the drain at the same time (less compromises).

2) Laticrete's method substitutes their membrane for the PVC liner in a standard shower system. Thus the entire floor has a thick layer of mud that has to dry out. The "divot" method reduces the mud layer above the membrane to a circle around the drain. Either way, the weak link is the connection between the membrane and the clamping ring.

If you have the time to wait and some spare coin, I recommend buying a couple of the Kerdi drains.

orskier
03-30-2011, 06:36 PM
1) The adapter I was referring to converts an existing clamp drain to a Kerdi drain, with the wide bonding flange, by replacing both the bolt-down ring with an adapter that mates to the same wide flange as the regular Kerdi drain. Not sure about the lateral adjustment though.

I was going to insert links to a thread on this site talking about it, and to a video, but I'm getting an error that says I am not allowed to have links in my posts -- but I've seen lots of links in posts here! What's up with that??

2) Now I understand -- one way of using Hydro Ban is between two mud layers, like a standard PVC or CPE liner; the other is to set the tile directly on the membrane, effectively using the liquid in place of Kerdi, and this requires the divot or a Kerdi drain. I was definitely planning the latter - only one mud bed.

The question still remains whether the adapter is a suitable substitute for the complete Kerdi drain, which would require cutting out the existing clamp drain.

orskier
04-05-2011, 04:35 PM
Hi all,

I'm wondering if I said something wrong that caused people not to want to answer this thread.

Can anyone advise me on whether the Kerdi adapter kit for clamp-style drains is suitable for use with Hydro Ban in the same way that the standard Kerdi drain is recommended in various threads here?

Thanks!

cx
04-05-2011, 04:43 PM
Welcome, Scott. :)

Naaa, you ain't said nothin' wrong. Yet. Our all-volunteer army of helpers get a little behind sometimes and a thread may slip off the front page and be overlooked. If you'll just make another post it'll bump the thread to the top of the queue for attention.

I personally would not use that conversion drain unless there was simply no way to cut out and replace the existing drain. And yes, you do lose the lateral adjustment with the adapter drain, and that's a really nice feature sometimes.

But you can use one if you wanna. :)

My opinion; worth price charged.

orskier
04-05-2011, 05:01 PM
Is the post that you just replied to (and this one) adequate to bump it to top of queue, or is there something else I should do?

It seems there might be two Kerdi adapter products: an older one that allows use of Kerdi fabric with a standard clamp drain, and a newer one (demonstrated in video that I cannot link to!) that converts clamp drain into wide-flange Kerdi drain (perhaps without the lateral adjustment.) Can you confirm this understanding?

I get that you're saying about "cut out the old and go with a complete Kerdi drain." Wanted to get some other opinions.

And -- any info on why I can't include links in my posts would be appreciated too!

Lazarus
04-05-2011, 05:31 PM
Scott....Not to worry. It's an "Anti-Spam" feature that is in place here. You can't link pictures until you have 3 or 4 posts. By now, you oughta be "good to go."