dc sniper

[opiethetileman]

he is to be exucuted tonite. about time what a horrible thing he did. it shouldnt have taken this long to end the sentence

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[ceramictec]

:tup2:

wow, it's been a long time.
I haven't heard a thing on the news about it.

[MudMaker]

John Allen Muhammad will be breathing his last breath tonight.. :tup2:

[Lazarus]

Yep, I was living in Virginia at the time and have been to the gas stations, HD's and such where he did the deeds. Just wish he could be holdin' hands with the guy from Ft. Hood when they pull the switch.

Oh, and don't call him a sniper...it's a dishonor to the men that are.

[opiethetileman]

well i agree laz but thats whats in the news ya know the dc sniper..... i have no comment on fort hood other than let the court settle that one. agreeded he did wrong as well but to many tension issues with his ethic and background. so i dont want to voice my opion because i will get banned for it

[ceramictec]

Just wish he could be holdin' hands with the guy from Ft. Hood when they pull the switch.FYI,
Under Virginia law, an inmate is allowed to choose the method by which he or
she will be put to death—either lethal injection or the electric chair.
Because Muhammad declined to select a method, by law he will receive a lethal injection. The execution is scheduled to take place at 9:00 pm EST at Greensville Correctional Center in Jarratt, Virginia.



:corn:

[Lazarus]

Brian, Know what you mean about the method....just used the generic term that fit.

Dan, don't know about "tension issues..." Hell, I get "tension issues," but ain't gonna go around shootin' the place up! Yeah, they have to refer to him as the "alleged shooter." Go figgure....not much question that he did it, eh? With all the political correctness goin' around, he'll end up tying up the courts, time and the taxpayer's money for a couple of years, at least. Somethin' not right here. I kinda wished that lady that took him down (good as she was) was a better shot......but that's just me.

[Rd Tile]

Bring back public hangings, lions in a stadium, I'd pay to get in.:D:corn:

[Brian in San Diego]

Yeah, they have to refer to him as the "alleged shooter."Aw, come on Laz, you of all people who uphold the great freedoms of this country should know that a suspect is "innocent until proven guilty in a court of law."

[tileman2000]

I was in Va. at the time of the shootings also,gas stations and HD in Falls Church where the FBI woman was shot.Used to take my sisters car to fill it up so she wouldn't have to.Good to see it's finally coming to an end.

[MudMaker]

I kinda wished that lady that took him down (good as she was) was a better shot..


Now see.. I have a differn't take.. I want him to see how he has humilliated his family and his religion.. I want him to experience full exposure in detail over and over again how he committed his heinous act of cowardism toward fellow soldiers who are fighting the good fight.. To run into a crowd of unarmed people and shoot indiscriminately trying to kill as many as you can, is the same to me as a suicide bomber.. He fully expected to be taken out. but now he gets to go to prison and be among the newly converts to Islam but more importantly, those in jail who still honor our military and what it stands for.. It'll be an interesting time for him, I'm sure.. :stirpot:

[Lazarus]

You know, MM...I tend to agree with you. I'd like to see him "roomated" with Bubba. A couple of years with him would do my heart good....

[MudMaker]

You mean BIG BUBBA?

[ob1kanobee]

MM, you are twisted, I like the way you think :tup2:

[ceramictec]

CNN Breaking News -- John Allen Muhammad, the mastermind of the Washington-area sniper attacks in 2002, has been executed, official says.

[MudMaker]

I remember the time when everyone in the Baltimore and DC area were scared to death to go out and pump gas, go to the store, go to the movies, etc.. He and Malvo terrorized the entire area.. They succeeded for a period of time in immobilizing a city..
After all, that's what terrorism is all about - FEAR.. Good riddance to rubbish.. :tup2:

[Lazarus]

Amen. This waste of human skin is finally taking a dirt nap......:corn:

[deepwater]

Do you think an injection of latex additive will do the same thing? Its only $20 a gal..

[MudMaker]

from Wikipedia:
While imprisoned, Malvo wrote a number of erratic diatribes about what he termed "jihad" against the United States.[20] "I have been accused on my mission. Allah knows I'm gonna suffer now", he wrote.[20] Because his rants and drawings featured not only such figures as Osama Bin Laden and Saddam Hussein, but also characters from the film series The Matrix, these musings were dismissed as immaterial.[20] Some investigators reportedly said they had all but eliminated terrorist ties or political ideologies as a motive.[21][22][23] Nonetheless, in at least one of the ensuing murder trials, a Virginia court found Muhammad guilty of killing "pursuant to the direction or order" of terrorism.[24]

At the 2006 trial of Muhammad, Malvo testified that the aim of the killing spree was to kidnap children for the purpose of extorting money from the government and to "set up a camp to train children how to terrorize cities",[25] with the ultimate goal being to "shut things down" across the United States.[26]

Sounds like a terrorist to me...

[ceramictec]

I think his wife also stated that she thought it was to kill her one day shortly after that and get custody of his/their kids ??

[Lazarus]

"Do you think an injection of latex additive will do the same thing?"


It certainly would make him "Kick" faster!

[sandbagger]

latex-fortified rigamortis. Doesn't get any better than that. :D

[Tilehelperdan]

:tup2::aparty::aparty2:

I celebrate the offing of that waste of oxygen. The world is a slightly less craptastic place.

[tilerite]

Not sure I agree with the death penalty. Supported it for most of my life but I have begun to rethink my stance.

[HS345]

Buh bye.

:wave:

[MudMaker]

Not sure I agree with the death penalty.

Why not??

Beltway sniper attack victims

Listed in chronological order, these are the names of the victims who were murdered or wounded in the Beltway sniper attacks.
Name Age Status Date of Attack Location
James Martin 55 Killed October 2, 2002, 6:04 PM Wheaton, Maryland
James Buchanan 39 Killed October 3, 2002, 7:41 AM Rockville, Maryland
Premkumar Walekar 54 Killed October 3, 2002, 8:12 AM Aspen Hill, Maryland
Sarah Ramos 34 Killed October 3, 2002, 8:37 AM Silver Spring, Maryland
Lori Ann Lewis-Rivera 25 Killed October 3, 2002, 9:58 AM Kensington, Maryland
Pascal Charlot 72 Killed October 3, 2002, 9:20 PM Washington, D.C.
Caroline Seawell 43 Survived October 4, 2002, 2:30 PM Fredericksburg, Virginia
Iran Brown 13 Survived October 7, 2002, 8:09 AM Bowie, Maryland
Dean Harold Meyers 53 Killed October 9, 2002, 8:18 PM Manassas, Virginia
Kenneth Bridges 53 Killed October 11, 2002, 9:40 AM Fredericksburg, Virginia
Linda Franklin 47 Killed October 14, 2002, 9:19 PM Falls Church, Virginia
Jeffrey Hopper 37 Survived October 19, 2002, 8:00 PM Ashland, Virginia
Conrad Johnson 35 Killed October 22, 2002, 5:55 AM Aspen Hill, Maryland

[opiethetileman]

i say an injection of mastic would be better. trust me i would have let them use one of my toys to do the job.....


at least its over what sucks is malvo gets to stay alive he was just as fault knowing what was going on

[MudMaker]

13 seems to be a common thread here...
John Allen Muhammad =13 Killed
Major Nidal Malik Hasan = 13 Killed
Both seemed to prefer unarmed victims that were not expecting to be killed that day... :scratch:

[Lazarus]

Well, Muslim Extremists seem to prefer that. They'll get children to carry IED's into crowded places....they'll hide behind civilians and hospitals or places of worship to launch weapons because real soldiers are hesitant to fire into areas where civilians might be at risk. These cretins are afraid to fight on an even footing. They would rather infiltrate our Military and shoot up our young, unarmed soldiers. Essentially, they are cowards...and, like bullies, they would rather terrorize the old, children, the infirm and those incapable of resistance. Unfortunately, this Administration bows to them, does not want to anger them, and is so focused on political corectness, they won't even admit that this is an act of Domestic Terrorism. Even the "Manchild," Obama says that he can't seem to understand his motives! Excuse me? His MOTIVES? What have we come to.....?

[MudMaker]

Mebbe BO felt the Police lady that finally shot him "acted stupidly" :confused:

[tilerite]

Why not??

Good question. I'm quite conservative when it come to crime and for most of my life, I have been a staunch supporter of the death penalty but as I grow older, I wonder about, not only the effectiveness of the death penalty but whether it is proper for a civilized nation to legally kill its citizens, regardless of how heinous their acts.
On another forum, somebody posted that in most cases, the death penalty does not bring retribution to the victims families but instead, just rehashes bad memories. I'm not saying I agree or disagree with that statement but it does stir my thought process.

[Lazarus]

Rick~ As to the "effectiveness" of the death penalty....you have to agree, it "effectively" stops that particular reprobate from murdering other citizens, eh? In THAT way, it's EXTREMELY effective.
:tup2:

[MudMaker]

Rick.. A life sentence with 3 meals a day and free Health Care doesn't sound bad to lotsa people - not especially an effective deterrent.. It may just be worth committing evil crimes in the event they are not caught.. However, if you say to yourself, "I could lose my life" it may be worth a second consideration..
An execution will never bring the person back and that's the only thing that will make victim's family and friends feel better..
It really isn't about the person that has committed the crime, it's about the person about to commit the next crime.. Therein lies the effectiveness.. ;)

[tilerite]

Rick~ As to the "effectiveness" of the death penalty....you have to agree, it "effectively" stops that particular reprobate from murdering other citizens, eh? In THAT way, it's EXTREMELY effective.

Life in prison does the same thing. Maybe worse.

[tilerite]

MM
You have studies to back up your statements??

[Lazarus]

"Life in Prison?" Only if they bunk him in with "Bubba..." :yipee:

[MudMaker]

David B. Muhlhausen, PhD, Senior Policy Analyst at the Heritage Foundation's Center for Data Analysis, in testimony delivered on June 27, 2007 before the Subcommittee on the Constitution, Civil Rights, and Property Rights of the US Senate Judiciary Committee, stated:

"The recent studies using panel data techniques have confirmed what we learned decades ago: Capital punishment does, in fact, save lives [...] Over the years, several studies have demonstrated a link between executions and decreases in murder rates. In fact, studies done in recent years, using sophisticated panel data methods, consistently demonstrate a strong link between executions and reduced murder incidents. Using a panel data set of over 3,000 counties from 1977 to 1996, Professors Hashem Dezhbakhsh [and] Shepherd of Emory University found that each execution, on average, results in 18 fewer murders (268KB) [...]

They found that executions had a highly significant negative relationship with murder incidents. Additionally, the implementation of state moratoria is associated with the increased incidence of murders... While opponents of capital punishment allege that it is unfairly used against African–Americans, each additional execution deters the murder of 1.5 African–Americans. Further moratoria, commuted sentences, and death row removals appear to increase the incidence of murder... Americans support capital punishment for two good reasons. First, there is little evidence to suggest that minorities are treated unfairly. Second, capital punishment produces a strong deterrent effect that saves lives."

June 27, 2007 - David B. Muhlhausen, PhD

[tilerite]

There's evidence on both sides of the equation which is probably one of the reasons I'm rethinking my views on the death penalty.

http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/41648/why_capital_punishment_doesnt_deter.html?cat=17

http://www.helium.com/items/793127-why-capital-punishment-is-not-a-deterrent

[MudMaker]

Thing is the Pro Death Penalty faction has the added plus that the perpetrator is no longer with us... Win Win:D

[tilerite]

Technically, there is no perfect way to handle hardened criminals. The death penalty raises moral and ethical questions. Life in prison is costly and labor camps are Unconstitutional.

[MudMaker]

The death penalty raises moral and ethical questions.

Guess I see no ethical or moral issue with eliminating the source of the problem..;)

[ceramictec]

an eye for an eye. :tup2:

[tilerite]

That's not how real life works, Brian.

[ceramictec]

yeah your right Rick, some murderers usually kill 5 or 6 innocent people and then only one gets executed.

[Brian in San Diego]

Frank,

The one thing that concerns me are the flaws in the Justice System that have put innocent people on Death Row. I have read some of the stories of people who have been saved by The Innocence Project (http://www.innocenceproject.org/). I can think of absolutely no justification for killing an innocent person wrongly accused and convicted even if his or her death lowered the murder rate after that execution. And if you can, would you sacrifice one of your loved ones for that end? I wouldn't.

None of the Manson Family killed another person after they were caught, convicted and incarcerated. They were all sentenced to death but their sentences were commuted to life in prison when the death penalty was briefly declared unconstitutional in 1972. Members of the "family" regularly come up for parole and all have been denied every time they have faced a parole hearing.

Brian

[MudMaker]

Truly Hypothetical situation: Two guys come in and rape your wife and kids then kill them.. You come in and catch them in the act.. What do you do? Call the police and hope they can prosecute them. or did I mention you have a gun...,
When you are personally involved your perspective changes.. When you have the luxury of deciding an individuals fate from afar, you can then consider
moral and ethical ramifications..

[MudMaker]

Brian.. Malvo corroborated John Allen Mohammad's acts of murder, The prosecution called more than 130 witnesses and introduced more than 400 pieces of evidence intended to prove that Muhammad undertook the murders and ordered Malvo to help carry it out. Evidence included a rifle, found in Muhammad's car, that was linked by ballistics tests not only to 8 of the 10 killings in the Washington area but also to 2 others, in Louisiana and Alabama; the car itself, which was modified so that a sniper could shoot from inside the trunk; and a laptop computer, also found in the car, that contained maps with icons pinpointing shooting scenes.

There were also witness accounts that put Muhammad across the street from one shooting and his car near the scene of several others. There was also a recorded phone call to a police hotline in which a man, his voice identified by a detective as Muhammad's, demanded money in exchange for stopping the shootings. - Execute

[Brian in San Diego]

Frank,

I am not disagreeing with the DC sniper case. I was responding to the study you put forth in favor of the death penalty. I am not necessarily opposed to the death penalty. I am opposed to killing INNOCENT people wrongly accused and convicted of a crime they did not commit.

This is what Wikipedia says about The Innocence Project...As of September 20, 2009, 242 defendants previously convicted of serious crimes in the United States had been exonerated by DNA testing. Almost all of these convictions involved some form of sexual assault and approximately 25% involved murder.The Innocence Project was formed in 1992 so they have averaged 3.5 overturned convictions of "murderers" per year. I don't have the figures of how many of those 60 cases were death penalty cases but killing or incarcerating 60 innocent people is wrong. As a civilized society I don't think we can stand by and call this "collateral damage".

Brian

[kapena]

By eliminating the death penalty for deliberate murder etc., a country devalues human life. A murderer does not have to worry about paying the ultimate penalty for his cowardly and uncivilized act. Murderers might still ignore the death penalty as they commit murder, but other potential murderers will see the result of such crime. It might deter similar acts of murder for them and it certainly stops the executed murderer from further crime.
I personally believe that public hanging should be brought back for murder. A slow and more painful hanging should be reserved for cowards such as the DC murderer. It should be a shameful execution that other potential murderers would not like to experience themselves. A primary basis of civilization is the death penalty for murder.

[Brian in San Diego]

Kapena,

If your thesis is correct then I think it would be prudent to take a look at this map (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Use_of_capital_punishment_by_nation) and explain how all the countries in blue, green and orange are "uncivilized". Most of the European Union have either "abolished for all crimes" or "abolished in practice" the Death Penalty. And they somehow have "devalued" human life. Sorry, I can't buy into your thesis.

Brian

[MudMaker]

I am opposed to killing INNOCENT people wrongly accused and convicted of a crime they did not commit.

No argument there..
A crime that is punishable by death, gets lots of scrutiny and there has to be overwhelming evidence today to make that claim.. In years past we didn't have the tools we have today to prove innocence or guilt.
but.. when a number of people witness a crime such as Maj. Nidal Malik Hasan in my eyes he is not innocent until proven guilty, he's just plain guilty..

The family of Hasan is saying as reported by By Ashby Jones in a law blog: Hasan’s family is demanding that he be allowed to consult with a lawyer before speaking to investigators or mental health professionals. In a statement released to the news media on Saturday, Hasan’s brother Eyad declared that his family has “faith in our legal system and that my brother will be treated fairly.”

Treated fairly!!! Well, I guess I do agree.. He should be treated as fairly as he did 13+++ of his compatriots..

[tilerite]

Truly Hypothetical situation: Two guys come in and rape your wife and kids then kill them.. You come in and catch them in the act.. What do you do? Call the police and hope they can prosecute them. or did I mention you have a gun...,
When you are personally involved your perspective changes.. When you have the luxury of deciding an individuals fate from afar, you can then consider
moral and ethical ramifications..

Correct. Emotions overtake rational thought when its on a personal level. I'm trying to discuss this subject rationally and objectively with no emotion. I question the use of legal killing in a civilized society. Didn't say I am no longer pro-capital punishment. Just saying I question it.

[MudMaker]

I guess I have difficulty dealing with murder rationally.. Emotion takes over for me.. In the DC Sniper case, he terrorized several cities for weeks.. In Hasan's case, he shoots unarmed soldiers..
In cases where someone goes into a church or school or office or day care center and just wipes out life - I have NO MERCY on them whatsoever and the death penalty couldn't come soon enough for me... Fast Justice.. and lethal injection should be banned.. I say deal with the criminal in ways that he fears the most.. Electrocution, hanging, or whatever way we could devise that would be more of a deterrent than lethal injection...
also.. individuals that take young children, rape them, kill them, and then throw them on the side of the road, there is no death method that I would rule out...
but I respect your opinion..

[java]

Mudmakers post pretty much sums it up for me. :tup2:

[tilerite]

Het mud, I tend to feel the same way that you do especially when it comes to children. I'm a huge supporter of "Jessica's Law", which makes for mandatory sentences for child predators. Somebody hurts a child, I have no problem locking them up for life and throwing away the key. Thing is, to have a fair justice system, one that applies to all Americans, you cannot allow emotions to rule the roost. Granted, thats easier said than done especially when innocent people are being raped and murdered but regardless of what we think our eyes see, there must be a system of checks and balances so that the innocent ones don't get caught in the web of vengeance.

[MudMaker]

Somebody hurts a child, I have no problem locking them up for life and throwing away the key.

I agree.. I would do the same thing and throw away the key as long as it opened the door to the Lions den at the Zoo.. :D

[tilerite]

We wopuldn't have a need for "Jessica's Law" if the judges who sentence these dirtballs would put the public first instead of their own self interests.

From Bill O Reilly's website (http://www.billoreilly.com/outragefunnels)

* In Rhode Island, 18-year-old Josh Maciorski was convicted of having sex with a 13-year-old girl, but sentenced to probation. Two years later he molested a 14-year-old girl and served just one year. Then, when he got out, Maciorski raped a 16-year-old girl. His sentence after this third strike - an unbelievable three years in prison.
* In Missouri, 19-year old Darrell Jackson pleaded guilty to repeatedly sexually abusing a little girl, beginning when she was just eight. But when Jackson came up for sentencing, a soft judge gave him four months in prison and five years probation.
* In Minnesota, Joseph Duncan stood in front of a judge, accused of molesting a young boy. Despite the fact that Duncan had previously served 16 years for raping another young boy at gunpoint, the judge released him on just $15,000 bail. Duncan promptly skipped bail and headed for Idaho, where he allegedly kidnapped, raped, and killed a 9-year old boy, molested his sister, and killed their family.

[MudMaker]

Yea.... like what's up with that??? How many times have judges let people out on bail who have committed a crime only to commit the same crime over and over again while out on bail, and light sentences for child molesters or rapists.. Where are these guys heads?? wait, I know the answer to that!! :shake: