Ft Hood shooting

[Davestone]

Maj. Hasan shoots and kills 12 wounds over 30...http://network.nationalpost.com/np/blogs/posted/archive/2009/11/05/348666.aspx

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[silvercitytile]

thats crazy, my little cousin is stationed there

[Shaughnn]

Dave,
Let's not drive this tragedy into the mud, please. The authorities have announced that one of the "suspects" has been killed and that two other suspects are being sought. They have also confirmed that that dead suspect is Army Major Nidal Malik Hasan, a psychiatrist recently reassigned to Darnall Army Medical Center from Walter Reed Army Medical Center.
You've chosen to identify the shooter ethnically, and that's a distraction. Until we know who the other suspects are, we can't possibly project what their motivations were. Postal workers are notoriously trigger-happy. Recently fired employees and jilted lovers are like mascots for firearm violence. The only thing we know for certain is that Major Hasan was single and 39 years old, born in Virginia, and that he had recently been transferred following a poor performance review at Walter Reed.
I really hope that this isn't a coordinated terrorist action, and that it is instead a case of a nut case with his own personal baggage, but I also recognize that he might indeed have been working with others. Lets sit back and patiently wait to understand what happened before we fire up more anti-Arabic torches and hoist our anti-Islamic pitchforks high into the air, please?
Jeff, please let us know when you hear that your cousin is safe.
Shaughnn

[Davestone]

I posted the name thinking someone might know them, thanx for keeping me in my place.

[Shaughnn]

Dave,
I'm honestly sorry that you're annoyed, but I can't possibly understand how any of us would know Major Hasan before this event? You link was to the National Post, a polarized anti-Islamic newspaper out of Canada and you identified the shooter by his surname, drawing attention to his ethnic origins in a conspicuous manner. How else was anyone going to interpret your post?
Shaughnn

[Lazarus]

Lets be specific and succinct about this. Why are we allowing Muslim extremists in our Military? Is it "Don't Ask, Don't Tell?" Oh sorry...that's BHO's deal. Is it Religeous Correctness? Put this way...there are people out there ready, willing and able to KILL us. What do we do? Oh, lets see....why don't we bring them onto our bases, arm them and....well, just kinda "see what happens?"

Well, this was brought home today with a member of the "Religeon of Peace," an Islamic Fundamentalist "Soldier."

This is absurdity in extremus.

http://www.breitbart.tv/co-worker-ft-hood-gunman-made-outlandish-comments-condemning-us-foreign-policy/

[iowapatriot]

The only shooter known at the time was identified by his surname because it was known. That's the nature of the news business (trust me, I know). When it was learned that there might be more than one shooter, the first assumption that probably came to most people's minds was a terrorist attack. The first thing that comes to mind when people think terrorist attack is Muslim. That's not profiling, that's not ethnic bigotry, that's simply putting two and two together. Maybe it doesn't add up to four when all the facts are known, but, given events in the last 30 years or so, it's a very normal and natural assumption. My prayers and thoughts are with the injured, and the families and friends of those murdered. Sad. Very sad.

[Shaughnn]

Laz,
Where are you getting "religious extremist" from? Have you heard of any witness reporting that the shooter shouted "Allah, Akbar!"? The answer to your question though is obvious. The shooter was allowed to join the military for exactly the same reasons that you or I are eligible. He was an American citizen and not guilty of a felony. Have you missed that his rank was "Major" and that he had begun his military career in the ROTC while attending Virginia Tech in 1997? Hardly a sneak attack there, Laz.
The two other suspects have been taken in and then released so it now appears that this was likely the action of an individual and not something more coordinated, as had been implied by early reportings.
Let's please stick to the known facts and not speculate or pass along sensationalist hearsay, please. This is a national tragedy and misrepresenting the details for political gain is just tacky.
Shaughnn

[Shaughnn]

Greg,
My first thought wasn't "terrorist", it was "PTSD". Hearing now that he was scheduled to be deployed (though not at this time) suggests that he might have been motivated by emotional stresses and not by political agenda. Well, it does to me at least.
I agree completely with you that this is a tragedy and that the friends and family of those injured deserve their loss to be treated respectfully and not turned into a witch hunt or a circus of pundits. Let's please wait to hear what a more complete investigation uncovers before we decide among ourselves that this was a political attack.
Shaughnn

[HS345]

You never cease to amaze me Shaughnn. :shake:

wow

[Shaughnn]

Thank you, Greg. I try very hard to be impartial and objective when faced with emotional situations. I'm not defending the shooter here. I'm simply asking that people refrain from jumping onto the burning bandwagon being offered to them at these very early moments at a very disturbing time.
Shaughnn

[LGB]

If it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck... http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/ap_on_go_ca_st_pe/us_fort_hood_shooting_suspect

[John Bridge]

Shaughnn, Take a breather, buddy. ;)

[Shaughnn]

I'm tapping out, Boss. :)
Shaughnn

[Davestone]

That was the first link that came up when i tried to find a link for it.:bow:Apparently he's still alive after being shot..they don't make M.P.'s like me anymore i guess.:D

[Davestone]

When i was in, the female mp's used 9 mm we used 45's,he would not be alive shot 4 times with a 45.But hats off to her.Can you imagine the scene,and shooting a major in the Army?

[SteveVB]

Have you heard of any witness reporting that the shooter shouted "Allah, Akbar!"?

Seems he did...FORT HOOD, Texas – The base commander at Fort Hood says soldiers who witnessed a shooting rampage that left 13 people dead reported that the gunman shouted "Allahu Akbar!" before opening fire at the Texas post.

Lt. Gen. Robert Cone told NBC's "Today" show on Friday that suspected shooter, Maj. Nidal Malik Hasan, made the comment, which is Arabic for "God is great!" before the rampage Thursday that also left 30 people wounded.

.http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20091106/ap_on_re_us/us_fort_hood_shooting

[HS345]

Kinda makes you go, hmmmmmmm............

[jvcstone]

I sort of agree with Shaughnn that there was and still is a lot of jumping to off base and very wrong conclusions----mostly due to the guys name and religion. I'd suggest getting past that and focusing on the real underlying cause---dealing with combat stress and PTSD. Major Hasan (who btw was born and raised in Virginia and every bit as American as most of us) has spend the past 8 years listening to the stories of returning vets--enough to disturb anyone's mental equilibrium. Ft.Hood, with two divisions, is over run with multiple deployed personel--a huge percentage of whom are not the same person they were prior to their overseas experiences. (for instance, the divorce rate on Ft. Hood and in the Killean area in general is 60% or more)

I guess my point is --don't read more into this than is really there, and it will be weeks of investigation before that will be known in it's entirety.


And Laz,--You might want to focus more on all the urban gangbangers being recruited into the army, taught how to really use a multiple of weapons, made experts in home invasion, and then turned loose back into their communities again than the fact that in a country established on religious freedom, non christians can freely participate in all our institutions.

JVC

[Lazarus]

By Sharon Jayson and Dan Reed, USA TODAY
FORT HOOD, Texas — An Army psychiatrist who had counseled troops and was upset about being deployed to Iraq shouted "Allahu Akbar!" and opened fire on an unarmed crowd at Fort Hood Army base Thursday afternoon, killing 13 people and wounding 30, military officials said.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/military/2009-11-05-Fort-Hood_N.htm?csp=

[HS345]

C'mon Laz, don't go jumping to conclusions now. I'm sure it was just PTSD, or something. :rolleyes:

[Mark Krachenspiner]

I've heard enough on the story to draw the conclusion that Doc Hasan was off to kill some infidels yesterday.

It will be interesting to hear how congressman Ron Paul of Texas chooses to deal with this. Will he blame America's meddling in the middle east as the reason behind the Doc's behavior?

If Doc Paul doesn't see the light after the events of yesterday then Ted Nugent is going to have to look to another fiscal conservative as his vice presidential nominee.

Sad day

[sandbagger]

Major Hasan (who btw was born and raised in Virginia and every bit as American as most of us)...sorry, John, the minute that nut opened fire on his fellow soldiers he ceased being "as American as most of us." (though one could argue the change occurred long before he pulled the trigger.)

[ceramictec]

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,572605,00.html

http://www.cnn.com/2009/CRIME/11/06/orlando.shootings/index.html

[sandbagger]

Orlando shooting is not related.

More is coming out about Hasan, and it is very disturbing. If even half true this guy should have been removed from service a long time ago. I really want to know why his co-workers - also psychiatrists - did not report what they themselves thought to be very suspect behavior. Or did they? :suspect:

[Davestone]

Apparently they did,but the jihadist seemed to be fastracked to Major in spite of it.Seems strange he goes into the service at age 31,does not want to go overseas,keeps saying we have no business in the middle east,and has trouble at Walter Reed.:bow:

[opiethetileman]

such a shame. my heart goes out to the ones who have passed and have been hurt. they gave us freedom and still give us freedom

[deepwater]

Another Rag-Head we should round them all up like we did the Japs in WWII

[HotinOKC]

I'm afraid this loon is just the beginning. These people are infiltrating the ranks. Now watch, you see all the "Islam is about peace" liars on TV preaching they are all about peace. Peace my ass.

[deepwater]

They are going to take us down from within. Also another reason every american needs to carry a firearm so these loons can be stopped before they can do that much damage.

[madronatile]

Real nice deepwater. Rag-heads and Japs, eh? Friendliest forum on the internet, as long as you look like us.


Edit- I don't think dave's feelings are representative of this forum. but if shaughnn gets a reprimand and he doesn't i'll be a little worried.

[Davestone]

A reprimand for what?

[Shaughnn]

Matt,
Let me clarify that I wasn't reprimanded. John rightly asked me to "take a breather" as this conversation is headed into the toilet, just like all the rest of them, and I don't need to be wasting my time trying to herd hawgs.
Have fun storming the trailer!, :D
Shaughnn

[sandbagger]

Also another reason every american needs to carry a firearm....Forget "every American" for a minute (not that I disagree, mind you).

Is the irony of this event not obvious? Think about it. A military base full of trained military personnel, and not a single one of them with a loaded gun. Except the bad guy, of course. But isn't that always the case?

And of course the other irony - it took a civilian to save the soldiers. :bang:

What the %#+^#*& is going on here?

[Davestone]

On one hand you have the unarmed military to protect the civilian community,from the untrusted military,and the armed civilians to protect the military.Very strange indeed.:bow:I suspect it was to prevent something like this.No, i take that back,if they were protecting themselves the military would be armed,i think they were protecting the civilians from the Army.If we don't have an armed border, and we don't seem to want to stop intrusions,then we must assume they were keeping the military in place.

[cx]

Real nice deepwater. Rag-heads and Japs, eh? Friendliest forum on the internet, as long as you look like us.I feel sure deepwater has gotten the hint here, Matt, and will tailor his comments to better reflect the policies of this forum.

We don't care what opinions you hold, nor that you care to express some that might not be popular, but we do expect all to be civil in their presentation of those opinions.

[sandbagger]

Friendliest forum on the internet, as long as you look like us."us" being this motley crew? Having seen some of these folks close up and personal, that is a truly frightful thought. :D

[cx]

Hey! :mad:

[jjwq8]

Perspective on "Ragheads".

I choose to live and work in the middle east and my family qualify as "raghead".

The term "Allah Akbar" is used in normal conversations in Arabic and 99.9999999999999999999999999999% of those using it are not rabid extremists as the various citations in this thread appear to suggest. I use it myself on occasion to denote any number of different feelings and emotions and often to describe the inestimable beauty of the common and mundane as well as the heart-stoppingly wonderful.

"Allah Akbar" is not a rallying cry to arms and it is not the preserve of "ragheads", moslem radicals or any of the diverse cultures that have embraced Islam. My family is Christian and Moslem both. We all use the phrase. Allah is the Arabic word for God. Christian and Moslem.

Describing those who commonly use the term as "ragheads" has as much validity and relevance as my calling all those who do not, "shitheads".

[ceramictec]

isnt Allah Akbar on the Iraq or Saudi flag ?
I remember something like that.
God is great, meaning Allah or Mohammad

[jjwq8]

The recent addition to the Iraqi flag was a somewhat cynical (imho) attempt by the Baathist Regime (read Saddam) to give themselves some kind of religious legitimacy that they never actually followed through on. Given the nature of the beast it is inconceivable that any subsequent regime would dream of removing the words from the national emblem.

The Saudi flag has the phrase "There is no God but God and Mohammed is the Messenger (Prophet) of God" upon it. "LayhAllah il Allah wa Mohammed al Rasoul Allah", forgive my attrocious anglicized attempt at spelling it out.

Essentially the same message though the Iraq statement that God is Great is clearly more secular, in keeping with the previous regime.

[deepwater]

Within ten years we will be having the same problem Israel is having. Muslim Jihad blowing their selves up on busses, train stations and other public places.

Why do they do it? For 100 virgins and a false god

[jjwq8]

Dave,
Forgive me whilst i make a number of assumptions about you.

You carry a "Christian" name and i will thus assume you are a Christian.

The Moslem God is no more false than the one you as a Christian nominally acknowledge.

The religions of the Book, namely Judaism, Christianity and Islam all submit to the same One God.

Jihad requires the issue of a Fatwa. Jihad has already been declared and the person responsible for the Fatwa may or may not still be alive. You may know him as Osama Bin Laden.

That there are not thousand s of Jihadis creating havoc and mayhem on the streets of the US is testament to the credence US Moslems put in the word of Mr. Bin Laden. None.

Since I have assumed you to be a Christian I will remind you that your words are particularly un-Christian and admonish you to read more of the Book of Proverbs. Specifically the one that states:

"It is oft better to say nothing and be thought a fool, than to open one's mouth and leave no doubt."

[deepwater]

Im sure there is a certain percentage that are "peaceful" but until the muslim world does some internal house cleaning I have to error on the side of "thinset never bonds to wood"

Of couse they blow their own fellow Muslims up in Iraq and Pakistan so I guess they don't discriminate

[deepwater]

Muslims have tried very hard to convince us that they and Christians/Messianic believers worship the same god. But, do we really? The true Creator of the world - the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob - has a name, YHWH (Yahweh), while "Allah" merely means "god". YHWH sent His Son to offer Himself as the Final Sin Sacrifice for the world, thus discontinuing the need for animal sin sacrifices. In other words, Yeshua (God Incarnate) died for US, while Allah expects us to die for HIM! Furthermore, the Koran (whose "scriptures" were "borrowed" from the Torah and then twisted to suit Mohammed's opinions) contradicts the harmonious teachings of both the Old and the New Covenants. YHWH, through Yeshua - performed many miracles on Earth, while Mohammed never even performed ONE. YHWH sent an aspect of Himself to Earth in human form in order to teach us how to properly worship God, how to treat each other according to HIS will, and then to offer His Son as the Final Sin Sacrifice so that ALL might gain eternal life.

No, we do NOT worship the same god! The bottom line is, Islam is a part of the religion of the Anti-Christ. The word "Allah" came from the name "Al-Ilah", which is the ancient name for the moon-god. Most mosques feature a moon crescent on their roofs, as do the flags of many Muslim countries. Do the contents of the Bible - which preceded Islam by THOUSANDS of years - ever show that YHWH condoned the worshiping of "moon-gods"?


http://www.therefinersfire.org/challenging_islam.htm

[John K]

Another soon to be closed thread.:D :corn:

[jjwq8]

Dave,
Good to see that you are using only balanced sources of reference.
No rabid zealotry in that site, no Sir.
See the end of my previous post.

Quad Erat Demonstrandum

[Mr.Miyagi]

Dave,
Some pretty weak arguments in your posts that have been thoroughly debunked time and time again. It's unfortunate that those who call themselves Christians would choose to set such poor public examples of the teachings of Jesus as those who call themselves Muslims do for the teachings of Islam. Seriously, what's your beef with "Jap Ragheads"?

[Davestone]

None of this changes the fact a misguided zealot,Allowed to live under a politically correct umbrella,killed 13 people,shot a pregnant woman.and wounded many more.We don't have to lock everyone different up, but we don't have to walk on eggshells either.

[John Bridge]

We don't have to walk on egg shells, but we also don't have to demean innocent people because one mad man committed a crime. I'm going to close this post, and I'm going to leave all the remarks intact as an example of what is NOT supposed to happen in this forum. I want you all to know that there are members who are pushing to get rid of the Mud Box. That's not going to happen, but this sort of thing simply will not be tolerated.

Deepwater Dave, If you let go with one more inane outburst, you're out.

I personally apologize to anyone who might have been offended by the racist remarks contained in this thread.