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cx
06-09-2009, 06:14 PM
Comes to my attention that a whole lot of people are apparently installing or converting to some sort of salt water for their swimming pools rather than using the traditional Chlorine or Bromine or whatever to condition the water. Being perpetually behind the curve, I never heard of this "trend."

Along with the trend apparently comes a rather serious problem of the saltwater doing very significant damage to some kinds of stone used for decking around the pools. Some of you stoners may have encountered this?

At any rate, the folks at StoneTech Professional advise me that they have already saved the day, which I wasn't even aware was in jeopardy. They have developed a saltwater-resistant sealer for use in such areas. Traditional sealers, such as their own Bulletproof, and even enhancers can be used after this product is applied to protect against saltwater damage.

So.......... y'all tell me if the pools of the world were really crying out for such a savior and if you think this may be it. Curious minds alla time wanna know, eh? :)

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Davestone
06-09-2009, 06:49 PM
I am equally unaware.

doitright
06-10-2009, 08:19 PM
Hi CX :)

I'm also unaware, but considering...Chicago is the "Windy City", not the "Saltwater City". :D

I have used Prosoco's product "SaltGuard" for exterior concrete protection due to our nasty winters though.

deepwater
06-11-2009, 05:38 AM
Your PDF is blank and I can not find any information on Stone Tech's website.. Please provide more information regarding this

Marge
06-11-2009, 09:44 AM
We have a saltwater pool and they are extremely common in AZ. If the pool chemicals are maintained at the proper levels you can't even taste any salt. We have had natural flagstone/sandstone around our pool for seven years and there is no wear/tear from the water. There shouldn't be. :)

duraleigh
06-11-2009, 09:09 PM
SWG's (Salt Water Generators) are incredibly popular in the pool industry. It would not be an exaggeration to say that 50-60% of all new pools have them and many, many older ones are being retrofitted.

Enough salt is added to the pool to bring the salt content up to about 3000ppm (The ocean is much saltier...around 30,000ppm, I think).

As this water passes thru the SWG, a metal plate coated with very rare metals is energized with electricity and turns a portion of the salt in the water into chlorine. (Chlorine is what is needed to keep nasties out of your pool). The best thing about the system is it is a continuous loop. Once returned to the pool, the chlorine turns back into salt and the cycle repeats. The metal plate eventually wears out (years) but that's it.

It is a convenient and very popular sanitizing system.

That said, salt is corrosive. It seems to have had particular impact on some of the softer stone material used throughout the Southwest to construct "waterfalls" in pools. Apparently, there are some pool builders in the Southwest who refuse to warrant their stone work if an SWG is used in the pool.

Like most things, it appears that the problem is "how much is too much?" SWG experts say that no way will 3000ppm hurt stone of any kind. However, that water splashes onto the stone and then evaporates.....over and over leaving a concentration far in excess of 3000ppm.

Overall, it appears something that all Pool builders should be aware of and to try to work with materials that are more resistant than the stone commonly used in the Southwest. There are many, many people that have had an SWG for years and report absolutely no damage to their stonework

cx
06-11-2009, 09:30 PM
There are many, many people that have had an SWG for years and report absolutely no damage to their stonework Yeah, we had one of'em testify right here on this thread, Dave, but she's just a girl. :D

Thanks for the info. Seems strange somebody like StoneTech/DuPont would wanna make a product to prevent a problem what don't exist. Seems like they's inna bidness of sellin' them products and if people don't see a need for'em they ain't likely to buy'em, eh?

Somebody out there must think it's a problem, non? :scratch:

doitright
06-12-2009, 09:38 PM
Hi CX :)

I think it's called "marketing" at it's finest. There are way too many times that sealers are used when they don't need to be. If you make a sealer, it will be bought! :nod:

How long do you think before other manufacturers follow the lead? Now consolidators on the other hand, have been on the market by other manufacturers for years.

alowrie200
06-23-2009, 10:51 AM
The spec sheet for DuPonts new product can be downloaded for free at our website. Just search saltwater sealer in you search engine and go to the Levantina USA Inc online store.

Thanks

Austin Lowrie
Supply Chain Manager

Ingeborg
06-23-2009, 03:23 PM
We totally renovated an old pool: New plumbing, updated look, stone around the pool, Pebble Tech interior, no tile at the water line. Water comes all the way up just enough to not overflow and we converted to a salt water/chlorine maker.

We have no problem with staining of the stone. I absolutely love the salt water method over the old chlorine which made my skin dry and stinky.
You really can't taste the salt. In the summer time, when we have a lot of rain, the pool will overflow. That's when you have to work at keeping things in balance and add salt. It's the only way you lose salt - overflow.

Wildlife comes regularily to drink the "sweet" water compared to the salt water in Matlacha Pass.

paul@sareenstone.com.au
10-22-2009, 11:59 PM
Salt water pools mnake up in excess of 50% of all pools installed in Australia - so The DuPont Salt Water Resistent Sealer is big news here. A terrific, 1 coat solution. This is a product long overdue!

doitright
10-24-2009, 04:08 PM
Hi Paul, Welcome! :)

Feel free to come into the Pro Forum and introduce yourself. ;)

kebrein
12-16-2009, 10:34 PM
I have a ~ 30k gallon salt water chlorinated pool in the Houston, TX area. It has two moss rock waterfalls, natural flagstone coping surrounded by a flagstone deck. I am considering trying the Dupont product because we do have deterioration of the flagstone coping and flagstone overhang. If you run your fingers over it, some areas will generate significant rock dust and you can see signs of the spalling (particle by particle, not big flakes). Besides the "fingertip test," the problem appears as a substantial amount of dust that regularly is deposited on the sunshelf and three different sets of steps (i.e., places the Polaris can't get to). You can brush off the dust, DE filter will trap it, but more will be back on the steps in just a couple days.

I don't see any evidence of deterioration to the moss rock waterfalls, but I haven't looked as closely there yet.

Has anyone tried this product? Does it work to reduce this type of dust? How difficult / easy is the application?

deepwater
12-17-2009, 10:07 AM
Keith..

It might be to late. You may end up just sealing all that salt into the stone. Also, you are suppose to seal the underside of the coping.

Call Dupont Tech line

GeorgeT
12-18-2009, 02:21 PM
Keith -

Is the dust salt or is it from the rock?

The Salt Water Resistant Sealer is a high solids silicone sealer designed to repel salt treated pool water.
It may help control rock dusting just by nature of the high silicone content, but that is not something it has been tested for.
You could PM me your contact info and I would be happy to get a sample to you...

kebrein
12-30-2009, 01:51 AM
George,
It is not salt. I am pretty sure that it is dust from rock deterioration / salt corrosion. Dust appears on the sunshelf and steps constantly, even following days with no wind where the surrounding deck was broomed clean. Volume of dust is too great to be just airborne type settling. We owned a previous pool at a house in this same area. That pool was not salt water and it had no similar issue.

Another product that came up in my research is one by Dry-Treat called Dry-Treat 40SK. It is made by a company in Australia but is available in the US. Price appears to be similar to the Dupont product but it offers a 15 year warranty if applied by an approved contractor. Total cost might be more because coverage per gallon appears to be substantially less than the Dupont product. They claim their product impregnates deeper than other products and is highly alkali resistant. Do you know how the Dupont product compares to this?

Our main symptom is this "dust." The deck and coping look fine. The underside of the deck overhang is a little rough to the touch but that isn't visible and it appears that it would take many, many years before it was severe enough to actually weaken the stone to the point of some functional issue (i.e. cracking / breaking).

On a separate note, we do have cream colored mineral type build up on our pool's cave walls and on a large flat stone where the hot tub flows into the pool. One company here offers a sand (glass) type blasting to clean those off and said that sealant would help slow the re-occurrence of these? I am curious if there is a cleaning product or chemical that would be effective?

The attached jpeg files have some pictures of the problems described. They are very low resolution due to file size limitations.

Keith

GeorgeT
12-30-2009, 10:58 AM
Hi Keith -

The pictures are too small for my eyes to see much ....

The Dry Treat products are well regarded sealers around here ... but their products, just like ours, are designed to only provide certain benefits. How either product will react to slowing or stopping the dusting issue can only be determined by testing.

Mineral deposits such as you describe can often be removed through the use of acidic cleaners but if the deposits are more heavily built up mechanical methods, such as the sandblasting you describe, may be more effective.

Have you looked into a system to remove the heavy mineral content of your water? That could help reduce the buildup issue.... I also wonder if there is a possible connection between the minerals and the dusting....

GregH_TX
01-28-2010, 11:01 AM
I too have a salt water pool with Arizona Flagstone around the edge, with a constant buildup of copper colored sand in the pool especially after a hard rain. I assume this is water eroding the flagstone. Im not sure if the salt water is accelerating the erosion or not, but from the name this salt water sealer sounds like a good product. A couple of questions:

Keith did you try this product out yet?

George how often do you recommend re-sealing the stone?

GeorgeT
01-28-2010, 11:13 PM
Greg -

It is difficult to be accurate when talking about resealing. This sealer, properly installed and maintained should provide several years of service, but the variables always apply....maintenance, environment, water chemistry and type of rock all play into the sealer life.
The Salt Water Resistant Sealer should work well on the sandstone flagging, but if the stone is sugaring this product will not bond it back together....
I would pressure wash to remove all the loose sand before sealing....

kebrein
01-29-2010, 05:53 AM
Greg,
I have not tried any product yet. Application requires several consecutive dry days and it has been a pretty wet, and relatively cold, winter here so far. Will likely try something in Spring / Summer.

George,
I know the picture resolution is too small to see well, but others have told me that the white mineral build up / calcification is leached from the type of rock we have. I keep the water chemistry pretty balanced and our water here is actually fairly soft, .... so I don't think hardness or minerals in the water are contributing. I plan to contact your customer service center soon to see about a sample of the StoneTech product. If the budget will accommodate, my plan is to start with a mechanical cleaning of the coping and moss rock, then I'll apply a sealer.

Keith

GeorgeT
01-29-2010, 11:34 PM
Keith -

A very strong water repellent should help then...keep some of the water out, slow down the deterioration....
PM me your shipping info and I'll get 'em out the door to you.... Or go to the StoneTech website and send an email to Technical Support.....

rpoldervaart
05-07-2010, 12:05 PM
I just ran across this thread, searching for salt water resistant sealers. I live outside Houston and have a salt pool with flagstone coping and moss rock cave / water fall. The pool is about 4-5 years old. The stone is really deteriorating to the point that some of the flagstone is below the grout. I also have some moss rock that is disappearing, such that a couple pieces are below the grout also. My polaris 280 regularly has a pound or two of sand and the steps will have a dust coating in a couple days after sweeping.

I've never sealed the rock, in fact when the pool was put in, they said I didn't need to. It sounds like this Dupont sealer is what I need, but I'm wondering if it is too late. If the salt has already penetrated and recrystallized, will it continue expanding, and sealing will do more damage than good? Or is the existing recrystallizing done, and the sealer could prevent any more damage from happening?

Will this Dupont sealer work on moss rock? As I said, I have a cave with moss rock, so I'll need to seal the underside, as well as the overhang of the coping. Will it cause any harm if some of the sealer drips into the pool water?

Thanks,

GeorgeT
05-09-2010, 12:24 PM
Robert-

With the levels of deterioration you describe there may be the need for more help than a sealer.
The Salt Water Resistant Sealer is designed for application on natural stone around your type of pool, however I cannot say if it will stop the advanced deterioration you are experiencing, but it should slow it down at least.
The sealer will not cause any issues if a little drips in the water itself; it will just dilute and diffuse in the water. If any biological material is attached to the stone it will be adversely affected by the sealer. Without knowing more about your 'moss rock' I would be cautious.
You can flush the stone with clear water repeatedly which will help reduce salt already present in the stone. After much rinsing and very thorough drying the sealer can be applied.

Wib
07-17-2010, 11:39 AM
Hello All,

Just bought a house in Katy with a salt pool & flagstone decking ... having the same problem with erroision of the flagstone. I can not see any evidence of the erroision on the stone, but there is always a small amount of "dust" on the bottom of the pool by the steps where the pool vacum does not catch. I pulled out the pool filter last weekend to clean it for the first time & it was brown with about 2 cups of sediment in the bottom of the canister filter.

Anyone out there try the Stonetech saltwater sealer yet?

I noticed the directions say to allow it to cure for 72 hours prior to water contact. I have a flagstone beach entry & I would have to drain ~1/2 of the pool to achieve this (~12,000 gallons), which I would prefer not to do. Some of the pool companies I spoke with told me to just drain the pool down ~ 1ft & seal down just below the water line. They said the errosion is caused by the wetting & drying of the salt water on the stone. Any stone that is always wet would be ok .... any advice?

Also, anyone know were in Katy or Houston to get the color match chaulking for the pool deck expansion joints?

Thanks in advance, Chris

drs591540@sbcglobal.net
07-02-2012, 08:14 AM
Chris, there should be no need to seal your beachfront entry. As long as the stone stays submerged in the water you should be alright. You should seal the areas where the salt water splashes (Such as coping and moss rock) & then is allowed to dry, which allows the salt to crystalize over time. That is most likely where the erosion is occuring. I just had a salt water pool installed and am currently in the process of using the dupont product prior to salting my pool. The product was recommended by a pool builder.

StoneTooling
07-02-2012, 12:46 PM
It's a great product. We have been selling it for years and can hardly keep stock in the Summer and pre-Summer months.

Beaux
10-29-2013, 09:37 PM
Will any of these saltwater sealers enhance the stone. Or does anyone know of one that is a one shot deal.

StoneTooling
10-30-2013, 12:42 PM
There are no Salt Water Sealer's/Enhancers that I'm aware of right now. You could just go with a solvent based enhancer though like the StoneTech Enhancer Pro (http://www.stonetooling.com/StoneTech-Professional-Enhancer-Pro-Gallon-p/30.20000.htm) or the Miracle Seal & Enhance (http://www.stonetooling.com/Miracle-Sealants-511-Seal-Enhance-p/30.10410.htm).

David Bonasera
10-30-2013, 08:57 PM
Hi keith,

I'm going to stand behind George on this one. I have seen many saltwater
pools eat away at the stone and Stone Tec is about as good as your going to
get for the prevention of this problem.

Stone Tec saw this comming years ago and made a good product for this problem.

As George said, clean out what you can and at least you can slow this down.

cx
10-30-2013, 09:02 PM
David, it's been nearly three years since Keith has been on the site and we'd hope he's already done something about his problem. :)

doitright
10-30-2013, 09:21 PM
Hi CX :)

Daniel & David were just responding to Beaux's recent post #27 from yesterday. ;)

cx
10-30-2013, 09:26 PM
Hi keith,

I'm going to stand behind George on this one. I have seen many saltwater
pools eat away at the stone and Stone Tec is about as good as your going to
get for the prevention of this problem.

I'm happy to have the comments here, just wanted to clarify the situation, John.

doitright
10-30-2013, 10:40 PM
Hi CX :)

I see that David in error addressed Keith vs. Beaux, but the reply was appropriate, no? :shades:

Unfortunately this happens when new posters don't start a new thread.

No harm, no foul. ;)