Blair Holt Firearm Licensing and Record of Sale Act of 2009

[Marge]

The Snopes summary provides one of the more easy reads about this.

http://www.snopes.com/politics/guns/blairholt.asp

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[jgleason]

I hope that doesn't pass. :(

I have nothing against guns but I don't own any...yet. Might have to speed up my plans to purchase.

[ddmoit]

There aren't enough prisons to hold the "criminals" that this will create.:shades:

[Tilehelperdan]

Didn't they try to sneak this into the "stimulus" bill?

I love the thought process of these people. "Firearm registration doesn't work in Illinois, so lets try it nation wide."

[sandbagger]

Are you (some of you) folks still going to stick to your claims that there are no differences between the parties? :uhh:

[ddmoit]

OK Art. They're a little different. Dems don't like the 2nd amendment, and Repubs don't like the 4th amendment.

[cx]

Nor the tenth.

No, Art, I still see no difference.

Please list all the anti-gun laws that were overturned during the recent period of years when House, Senate, and Executive were all controlled by the Republicans and such action should have been rather easy and politically painless.

Worry not about our bandwidth capabilities, list'em all with all their supporting documentation if you like. :)

[HS345]

With all due respect CX, there are a myriad of difference between the two parties. Your attempt to paint them as even similar is just plain silly. :shake:

[Marge]

I'm hoping the fact that no one has stepped up to co-sponsor this is a good sign that it will fade away.

[ddmoit]

Greg, I'm not sure how useful it is to characterize an opposing view as silly. It might be more useful to provide a list of all the ways the two parties are demonstrably (as opposed to rhetorically) different. All I see is two different versions of big government socialism with perhaps different special interest groups being served.

Rush Limbaugh and the like have full time jobs, trying to persuade us of the vast differences. I suppose to a large degree he and his kind have been successful. From where I sit, they protest too much in the Shakespearean sense.

I'm so silly that I can't tell which of the parties stands for small government and liberty. I wonder if you can help me identify achievement by either of the two parties towards liberty and small government in the past 50 years?

[Marge]

Hey, no party type politics in my thread. Just ask what happened to the last guys that tried to derail one of my threads.... Good luck finding them. :D

[Brad Denny]

It seems that even if passed, the requirements wouldn't be more than what's needed for a conceal carry license, right?

[HS345]

You make a good point Dan. And it is no secret I have occasion to choose my words less than carefully at times.
However, the differences between the two parties are so glaringly obvious, I find it impossible to believe it wouldn't be obvious to even the casual observer.

At the risk of being labeled, I stand by my silly comment. :D

[Marge]

Bradley, very similar to concealed laws. One big difference is it affects private party sales and gifting of firearms.

[ddmoit]

I would expect most casual observers to be fooled by the rhetoric. It is the close examiners who are fooled that have me puzzled. (Sorry, Marge :o :x: )

[ddmoit]

I haven't studied it, but the private party and gift sales tracking would see to be a logistical nightmare.

[Brad Denny]

I'd be curious as to what would be done with a firearm collection when the owner dies. :shrug:

[MHI]

Just another silly stupid unenforceable gun law that makes criminals out of law abiding citizens.

Three words: My cold dead fingers.:)

[Brad Denny]

If you wanted to rid yourself of a firearm, could you? If you had to sell it to someone with a FFL, how could you get a fair price?

[Rob Z]

If something like this passes, just think of all the canoe accidents there will be, sending millions of firearms to the bottom of lakes an ponds.

"Sorry Mr. Federal Confiscation Agent, I lost that thing in the swamp three years ago":shrug:

This slow and gradual creep is what has been done in every country that has lost firearms rights over the past century.

Oh, but this time it's different, Trust Us....:shades:

[jgleason]

It seems that even if passed, the requirements wouldn't be more than what's needed for a conceal carry license, right?

Depends on the state. In NH the hurdles to obtaining a concealed carry permit are minimal, to wit...

Requirements:
1. Be a suitable person to be licensed and has good reason to fear an injury to his person or property or has any other “proper purpose.” Hunting, target shooting or self-defense shall be considered proper purposes.

NH is a "shall issue" state. Pay your $10 permit fee and submit the application to your local police chief. No big deal. Of course, in NH, as well as several other states, no permit is needed to open carry.

[Marge]

Good point Joe. In AZ...fingerprints, classroom time, legal issues education, range/shooting time (actually saw two guys expelled from class when they were on the range and kept turning around, with guns pointed while turning, to ask questions) and the required re certification every few years.

I think AZ concealed requirements are a good thing....some education, legal updates and skill.

[jgleason]

As a responsible citizen I took a handgun class to become familiar not just with the various handguns but also legal issues surrounding their use. I feel better having taken the class and getting in some range time with a very good instructor. I don't believe any of that should be a requirement to get a concealed carry permit though.

[sandbagger]

Please list all the anti-gun laws that were overturned during the recent period of yearssorry, Marge, got to answer this only because it's so obvious I can't believe it was asked. I'm referring, of course, to the DC ban that was overturned in the Heller case thanks to Bush replacing O'Conner with Alito.

Arguing how O'Conner would have voted is irrelevent. It's how she was replaced that counts, and we know Obama voted against confirming both Roberts and Alito. So did Kerry and 39 other Dems (Alito vote). Bush and the GOP Senate had a very direct role in the Heller victory and that should be too obvious to even debate.

Back to Holt. I too have done a little reading and this does look more and more like Bobby Rush's solo gig. Ever since Gore the Dems just don't want to take on the NRA in any great numbers.

It's almost like this is too obvious to worry about. In fact we've seen a strategy emerge where the Dems look like they're voting down something they know people don't want and then come around with a very subtle backdoor assault by another name. Did anyone notice how easily the ban on the Fairness Doctrine passed? You probably did because it was all over the news. Now, did you hear about the Durbin Amendment (http://newsbusters.org/blogs/seton-motley/2009/02/27/essay-durbin-amendment-new-fairness-doctrine-kicker) that passed on a party-line vote the same day? I'm betting you didn't. Good-bye Fairness Doctrine, hello Diversity Doctrine. :deal:

[cx]

sorry, Marge, got to answer this only because it's so obvious I can't believe it was asked. I'm referring, of course, to the DC ban that was overturned in the Heller case thanks to Bush replacing O'Conner with Alito.Almost no limit to how far y'all will go to avoid answering the question or to stretch a point, eh, Art? :)

Again, what laws were changed by your Republican Congress and President when they had a clear political shot? Not federal court cases, Art, political decisions. That court case needn't ever have been heard if the Congress had simply made the law go away. A law over which they had direct and absolute control, it being in the District.

They simply hadn't the spine for it. Talk's cheap. Action has a bit more of a price tag, eh?

[sandbagger]

That court case needn't ever have been heard if the Congress had simply made the law go away.that's fine as far as it goes, but what's to prevent some judge from spinning it to his own liking or writing his own? That happens far too often for my liking. Isn't judicial activism a bigger problem since judges at this level aren't directly subject to votes? At least now we have precedent to carry some (albeit small) weight.

[Shooter]

Stratagem or ruse.

Provide an extreme option to your enemy that is so ludicrous, that it is patently obvious to everyone no matter what side your on. Then introduce options that are less extreme but ultimately work towards the same end goal. While they may not like it, the oppressed population will often accept the lesser of the evils and may even feel thankful that they were given the option of making the choice themselves. They can chip away piece by piece and over time you can gain total control over a population and introduce an entire new form of government while completely replacing the old one.

[ob1kanobee]

Shooter, CX, Dan :goodpost:

[Dave Taylor]

Heard this AM on NPR that the latest bailout bill contains a legislative provision that will return the "gun ban" to DC nullifying the recent supreme court decision on the matter.

Ahhhh.... gumint'. :twitch: