ceramic tile

[beckher5]

I just had ceramic tile installed and when they sealed the grout, they put the seal on the tile too. the tile had a matt finish and it is now glossy and i preferred the matt finish. they said they could strip the tile, will that ruin the original finish? Should they re-seal it if they strip it? What would you do?

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[duneslider]

Not to be a negative person but if your tile guys didn't know not to seal the ceramic tile I would be concerned with how they installed it. Unless this happens to be a non-glazed ceramic tile, which is pretty uncommon now days. If you do have a non-glazed tile it needs to be sealed. You have any pictures?

You can strip the sealer from the tile but it will also strip it from the grout. The grout will have to be resealed.

Did you see any of their process for installing? If this were my house I would be pretty concerned right now. Probably not what you wanted to hear.

[Davestone]

Bryan is probably right but for now what type sealer was it?You might want to check with the sealer manuf. to be sure they use the right stripper.Also this can be a real mess depending on the sealer so good luck.

[SABoyt]

Glazed ceramic tile does not absorb sealer. If there is sealer left on the tile, as a result of poor installation, it needs to be corrected by the contractor. When sealing ceramic, any sealer that is left on the tile should be removed before it dries on the surface. Any sealer that is left is topical and not "in" the tile. Your tile should not be damaged by this. If it is not removed, it will wear off and start to flake from normal traffic.

They definitely need to finish the job and i hope you have not paid them for the service. It is probable that applying more of the sealer in small amounts spritzed onto the surface and then buffed with a hogshair pad on a floor buffer will remove the extra sealer. This is assuming that a reputable contractor is doing the work. Any knowledgeable sealing company should know not to leave sealer on top of ceramic. If this process is unsuccessful, a high alkaline cleaner needs to be applied to remove the residue. Then the grout would need to be resealed.

I have to believe that if he just applied sealer to the whole area and not just the grout, that he used a very cheap sealer because he wasted 5 times more than he needed to use. Are you sure it is ceramic? How long was the floor down before sealing?

[doitright]

Hi Becher5, Welcome! :)

Sorry, but I missed your first name. :shades:

Without seeing pictures or the job itself, it is impossible to give advice on the correct remedy. The most critical information that we need to start with is having the exact name of the product that was used to seal your grout (and tile).

It's possible that a topical high gloss sealer was used, vs. an impregnating sealer, which will require two different products and methods to strip.

Please forward photos and product info to help us steer you in the right direction.

BTW, I don't think it's fair at this point to criticize or question the installation. I have seen many excellent installations with improper products applied afterwards.

[SABoyt]

John, you are correct. Perhaps we are jumping the gun to give advice with such little information on this one and to assume the installer was wrong or failed to do his job correctly. It's always easy to second guess someone's work.

I am still not sure that we are talking about ceramic. Since the installer sealed the tile, and indicated afterward that he could change it, it sounds as if the installer is treating this as some other tile/stone. HO also said it was a matt finish which is not often found on ceramic. (unglazed porcelain maybe?)

Pictures would make all the difference. Thanks for keeping us in line John:D

[duneslider]

I apologize for jumping the gun and making accusations. Its just been one of those weeks, seen a lot of things that cost a good people a lot of money.

Not all good installers know everything about sealing. I am one of them. I am very cautious when it comes to sealing because I don't have a lot of experience with it, at least compared to a lot of those who are helping here.

Like the others have said, pictures would clear a lot!

[doitright]

Hi Steve :)

Not meant to keep anybody in line, just my opinion of the situation. I also do consultation and evaluations as a part of my business. It's a fine line to actually see an installation and stick to industry guidelines for workmanship and methods used. It's always simple to tear apart someone else's install. Many times I run into excellent workmanship, but the methods used created a failure. I will mention to the homeowner when on the "outside" the craftsmanship was exceptional, but the method of installation fell way short of an industry standard. For example, screwing a CBU to below curb level with drywall screws. :eek:

Many times on shower failures, I couldn't find a reason for them not to leak!

Sealer is the same situation, many times applied to granite that doesn't require them, topical sealers applied in wet areas, etc.

The more info we can gather, the better. It's exceptional difficult without actually being on a job site, let alone not having photos. ;)

[beckher5]

Hi everyone, thanks for all the advice. I looked at the box and it is glazed porcalin tile. I have attached a picture of the tile. As for the installer well, I went with a handyman. He is a nice guy and I think he did a good job w/ the installation, but I think he got tired and rather than take the time to apply the grout sealer down the lines of the grout he poured it into a paint tray and applied it to the entire floor. So, I just need suggestions on how/what to do now. The finish was not a very bright sheen before and now it seems to be "glowing". So perhaps Matt finish was the wrong word. However it is definatively more glossy than it was suppose to be. HELP! The tile is Jackson Ridge Grotto Black and the manufacture of the tile is Florim USA in Clarksville, TN.
Thanks, Becky

[doitright]

Hi Becky :)

Thanks for the update!

Do you have the name of the sealer that was used?

[beckher5]

No idea what sealer they used. I do know that it was in a yellow bottle.

[SABoyt]

Yellow bottle with green writing? Tile Lab.

If this is the product, you have two options. 1 - mix baking soda with a small amount of water to make it into a pasty substance. Scrub the tile with a white pad to remove. 2 - purchase some Aqua Mix Nano Scrub. Follow the label directions. Neither product will hurt the grout sealer. The baking soda is neutral but abrasive live the nano scrub.

[duneslider]

My guess would be the sealer is custom's Tile Lab from home depot. I don't know much about it but I have seen it there. There are several different types in a yellow bottle. Matte and Glossy topical sealers, and a "penetrating" tile and grout sealer. I think the "penetrating" type sealer will be easier to remove though.

Any chance you can find out exactly which sealer was used?

[beckher5]

Bryan, Thanks so much. I have asked, but haven't gotten a reply yet. I wil post it when I hear back.

Steve, If I use the nano scrub, would I need to then re-seal the tile? will it remove a protective coat that was originally on it? I also know now that is porcalin and not ceramic.

Thanks
Becky

[SABoyt]

Becky, while you are waiting to hear back, you can try the baking soda. It will not damage the tile to try it.

Tile lab only makes two products that would fit into the catagory for sealing this grout/tile. The others are stone specific and not designed for ceramic or glazed porcelain. From the pics i can see that there is a lot of hazing. The baking soda will work unless it has been down for more than 5 or 6 days. Then the nano scrub will be required to remove it. Neither will remove the sealer from the grout line. This would take a more alkaline product. If you try using a stripper to remove it, it will also remove the sealer in the grout lines, therefore requiring that you reseal.

[beckher5]

Steve, thanks for your advise. The seal was put on before Christmas and I just didn't want to deal with it then; so it has been more than 6 days. If I use the nano srub (which I will definately try) will it take the manufactures original finish off the porcalain tile? Will I then have to put some type of seal back on the tile so it won't stain if something is spilled on it?

Don't mean to be repeatative just want to make sure I do the right thing.

Thanks,
Becky

[SABoyt]

Becky, the nano scrub will not damage the porcelain surface. It should return it to its original appearance. Glazed porcelain is "sealed" during manufacturing by the glazing process. It is difficult to damage and what makes it so resilient.

For your own peace of mind, you can test the sealer after you have cleaned the floor. Place a few beads of water on the grout surface and let it sit for about 30 seconds. If the sealer is intact, it should bead and leave the surface unchanged after wiping it away.

I am pretty confident in this solution as tile lab only makes 3 (or 4) products in the yellow bottle. The others are color coded to match their application. (yellow bottle, green bottle, white bottle with color bands, etc.) The yellow bottles are tile sealers and tile and grout sealers, not enhancers. You can still try the baking soda, it might work.

[doitright]

Hi Becky :)

It sounds like Tile Lab's Gloss Sealer & Finish was used (inappropriate product). It wouldn't be uncommon for this product to be fogging when applied over a porcelain tile.

Are the grout joints glossy? If so, this is a good indicator that the above named product was used. Removing it from the tile won't be bad utilizing a high alkaline cleaner. The trouble comes trying to get it out of the grout joints. They will have to be soaked with the alkaline solution, allowed to dwell, then follow with a grout brush agitation, and complete with a good rinse and removal with a wet vac.

While Steve's method may work on the tile, if the above mention product was used, I would not leave it in the grout joints. Eventually the product will start to degrade and fog (if it doesn't during the initial stripping process).

I hope I'm wrong. What ever you do TEST a small area first.

[SABoyt]

John, while that particular product is in a yellow container, if the installer even read the label, he would know that this is not for ceramic or porcelain. This is a product for stone and cement tile. I feel certain that the Home Depot guy would steer him to the product for porcelain.

While i greatly respect your opinions, look at the picture, there does not seem to be a gloss on the tile, just a shinny haze created by letting it dry topically. Why do you think it would be a problem in the grout joints? It is made for cement tile, saltillo, etc. Wouldn't it also seal the grout without peeling? Not saying that it is the correct product, but since it is there, wouldn't it be ok to leave it for a year or two?

Yes, if i encountered this on a job quote, the first thing that i would do is apply alkaline cleaner (ph 13) let it dwell 10 minutes and clean and extract it with my truck mount. Then we would properly seal the grout. But i think she will be able to save the sealer in the grout by using nano scrub on the tile.

[doitright]

Hi Steve :)

Just going by experience. If it's one of the other impregnating sealers, and he read the label, he'd have known not to have let the product dry on the surface. I've also stripped this product from stone & grout, and know what to expect.

Hi Becky :)

Just thought of a simple TEST. Take a single edge razor blade at a low angle and try to scrape the sealer off your tile. If you're able to get some shavings, it's a topical product.

[beckher5]

well men...the baking soda did the job. I did one tile in a closet in my laundry room. It took the "glow" off the tile, and left the natural look. I put a drop of water on it and let it sit and it did not absorb it...I'm assuming that is a good thing; then it won't absorb any spills. So when I'm done w/ the job, do I need to reseal the grout? and what product would be good. And by the way they did use the tile lab home depot product.

thanks tons, i'm so excited I don't have to use any chemicals, as I have 3 kids and a dog:tup2:

[SABoyt]

That's great news Becky. If you only use the baking soda, you will not need to reseal. The grout lines will not be affected by the neutral ph of the soda, that is why it is a good product to do this job.

BTW, as John asked, do the grout lines look glossy now? They didn't appear to be glossy in the photos.

Good luck to you, glad to help. So in the future, if you need to have that tile and grout cleaned and resealed, or other tile work done, be sure to get a real professional. It will save you a lot of headaches.

[beckher5]

Steve, the grout was never glossy, just the tile. Thanks again!

[doitright]

Hi Steve :)

Great call! :bow:

Hi Becky :)

I'm glad your problem got resolved! :tup2:

I'm glad the grout wasn't glossy.

[SABoyt]

Thanks John. Just goes to prove, "even a blind hog finds an acorn sometimes". :tup2:

I have seen a lot of sealer problems, especially from the yellow bottle and the little blue one. Plus, i have learned a lot from the boards as well. The tough part on here is getting the HO an answer using what is available to them at a reasonable price.

I don't want to derail the HOs thread, but i would like to hear your thoughts on the gloss sealer in the grout line. Maybe i can learn something else tonight.

[doitright]

Hi Steve :)

If you're stripping the gloss topical from a stone surface, that same stripping process is degrading the topical in the grout joints. Sometimes the surface of the grout starts fogging because of the uneven application. Another disadvantage is the gloss topical is degradable, which usually isn't a problem with a quality impregnating sealer.

This is one of the reasons the pro must know when he can use impregnating sealers, topical, enhancers, or grout colorant to resolve problematic situations.

[SABoyt]

Hi John,

OK, so your comments were directed at the stripping process mostly. That is what confused me. I agree with you totally on having to do the grout joints also if the tile was stripped.

Also a good point on the glossy sealer being topical vs. impregnating!

[doitright]

Hi Steve :)

Now you see how we're able to stay on topic. (See post #1). :nod: :D

[SABoyt]

John, i would say purely accidental. LOL Can't believe this one didn't send us around the beltway!