Remodeled Kitchen - Overapplied AquaMix Grout Sealer - USMC Needs Help!

[Lynn K]

Hello and Thank You in Advance for Your Solid Guidance!

I researched for months before just recently applying Aquamix Sealers Choice 15 to the unsanded grout in our newly remodeled kitchen (in May'08) Now I'm looking at a tacky grout surface 48 hours after application and major spotty discoloration to grout that looked great before application of sealant.

Our flooring contractor said we didn't need to seal grout when he laid out the 13" Porcelain kitchen tiles- we used Shaw Unsanded Grout in pale gray color. First time I spilled coffee grounds on the grout I knew he was wrong! Other than that the grout was pristine - just me and the hubby - no kids, no pets, no shoes in the house. Still I cleaned the tile per instructions with Aquamix Heavy Duty tile and floor cleaner (Tile showroom was out of regular strength cleaner) Gave it 36 hours dry time - it looked beautiful and uniform in color and so I tackled the sealing on New Year's Day '09.

Started to apply sealer with small paint brush when I read a string on this site about applying by applicator bottle and allowing a good soak. Made sense and I was so cautious, not a spill or overlap on the tile, yet the sealer didn't soak in well or quickly- just pooled in a river down the grout lines. 48 hours later it's still tacky and worse yet, gray spots of discoloration have appeared non-uniformly throughout all our grout.

It looks dirty and so out of place in a beautiful kitchen we waited 10 years to gut. My husband did much of the demolition, plumbing, electrical and all the trim work. He's trying to console me and I feel so disappointed to have ruined our dream project. I'm calling the Aquamix tech support line tomorrow PST, but don't expect much in the way of assistance. Two of the local Tile showrooms were unable to offer me any direction on this project and I've had to do all my research online.

I was a bit anxious about this project as I've not read of many positive outcomes dealing with grout sealed after the fact. I couldn't find an area "expert" to offer guidance and the different websites are sometimes contradictory in application procedures.

Disappointed - heck yeah! On the other hand, I've got my health and my family. Thanks for any advice offered - I'll weigh carefully.

God Bless

Lynn K

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[SABoyt]

Lynn, sounds like you have a bit of a mess. It's been close to 24 hours since you sealed, so hopefully it has not set up too hard.

First to put you at ease, take a deep breath and relax! There is no permanent damage here. sounds as if the sealer did not penetrate and dried on the surface. At the very worst, it can be stripped off the grout. :calm:

Feel better now?

It is very possible that the reason your installer said you didnt need to seal the grout is because it is epoxy grout. If that is the case, the sealer will not penetrate and you would end up with the mess you described.

First, try putting some more of the sealer on a small section of grout. Let it sit for about 3-4 minutes. Try using a stiff brush, toothbrush, whatever you have (not too abrasive, nylon type) and scrub the line. Use a clean cloth and wipe it all up. Does it look better? If so, continue. If not, call the installer and ask what kind of grout he used and let us know.

Good luck

[Lynn K]

Steve,

Thank you for your reply - very reassuring and much appreciated! I have been losing sleep, but am trying to be mindful of my hubbie's peace of mind.


Contractor used Shaw Ceramic Sanded Floor Grout SCOOG - Polymer Modified Grout, a "blend of portland cement, sand, state of the art polymers, organic pigments and performance enhancing additives." Resistant to bacteria, stains, fungi (but apparently not overly-conscientious homeowners) For maintenance said could be touched up with Shaw Color Seal - but the store manager said it was discontinued - hence the sealer misadventure.

1/3 the floor still tacky this a.m., but I did soak the grout (twice) in 12X12 kitchen over a 6 hour time period on New Year’s day. It did eventually appear to all soak in with use of fans.

Q: Dry remaining tacky sealer with fans?
Let be to dry naturally a few more days?
OR, as you suggested apply sealer lightly, agitate and blot with clean cloth? Should I use damp cloth and wipe off with clean water?

Took so long to apply because it didn’t soak in right away and I ensured no sealer got on porcelain tile. Now noticing some light transfer from tacky grout sealer to the porcelain if we aren't careful to avoid stepping on a grout line.

Q: Clean the few blotches on porcelain tile with Aquamix Heavy Duty Tile and Grout cleaner? (I still have 1/2 bottle left) Or other choice?

Didn’t mention that a month after remodel completion (June ’08), a faulty dishwasher connection caused flooding to a 3' square area that we didn't notice until it seeped up from the saturated grout. That would perhaps explain the bit of spotty gray blotches that have appeared in the grout in front of dishwasher, but not elsewhere in kitchen. Have the same appearance as water spots on unsealed grout. Did the grout not dry fully before the second application sealed in the moisture? We have Durarock cement board under the porcelain tile, so my husband felt the trapped moisture might absorb if that is the case.

Q: What might these gray spots be? I was careful to not over apply diluted Aquamix grout cleaner and remove with water. Waited over 24 hours to apply sealer.

Any way to even the color out and remove these slight "spots" in the grout? Grout lines are about 1/4" wide and very light gray color, so noticeable – grout appears dirty now.

I researched the heck out of this and now regret not applying LESS by brush, as originally intended. Saw the squeeze bottle applicator “string” and changed method at last minute. This did allow for precision application, but as my husband pointed out, the string I read was posted by professionals and they know how to work with this stuff.

I also did NOT wipe off excess sealer sitting in the grout lines as I was afraid to get on porcelain and felt it would all soak in eventually and make for a more effective seal. Can’t afford to regrout the floor, so I will live with it and let it go (perspective!) My husband is being great about it all and I want him to have peace of mind.

Thanks again for your help - diagnostics online aren't easy and I’ve read a lot of grout horror stories! Hope my experience helps someone else.

Lynn K

[SABoyt]

Lynn, i think it is time to regroup. If you over applied the sealer and didn't wipe it away soon enough as directed on the bottle, you are allowing sealer to sit on top of the already dry sealer, therefore not allowing it to absorb. If it has not absorbed by now, it really never will. It will just get more cloudy as it dries on top. You mentioned that you sealed this over a period of 6 hours. Did you verify that the first coat had completely dried and test for water absorption before the second coat?

Your best course of action is to strip the sealer from the top of the grout. You can try ammonia and water or purchase a sealant stripper from you local tile store, like the Aqua mix HD stripper. Try mopping the floor with hot water and ammonia . If using the ammonia mix, let it dwell for about 10 minutes and mop again. While it is wet, use a grout brush or deck brush to agitate the grout lines. Then extract the water with a shop vac. Once it is stripped down, you can then see where you are, it may be necessary to repeat the process. This will clean the tiles as well.

If you have blotchy grout you may want to then consider using a colorant to make it all uniform and sealed. The grout colorant will actually seal the grout better than clear sealer does. You will need to follow the directions PRECISELY.

The tracked sealer can be cleaned from the tile by applying some of the sealer to a rag and rubbing it onto the tracked spots. Then, buffing with a white pad or clean dry towel.

Pictures would be a great help!

[Lynn K]

Steve,

Appreciate your replies - particularly over the weekend - so hope you enjoy the rest of your day! Sorry no pics of the aftermath - but I’ve attached a threshold view of our tile and grout flooring before.

***What brand color sealant would you suggest with our Shaw Ceramic Sanded Floor Grout, a Polymer Modified Grout?

Must one go very dark to color stains? Our porcelain tile is light colored - dappled silver, gray, pale beige, cream. We'd prefer not to overpower the subtle hues. Thanks!

To answer your question, no, I didn't wait for the floor to dry fully before second application, just until the sealer sunk into the grout line. I didn't want to exceed the 30 minute timeline for second application directions on the bottle. My lack of experience in this area greatly hindered "out-of-the box" thinking, I'm afraid.

The good news is that 90% of the floor grout has dried! Two tile lines the length of the kitchen by sink and dishwasher remain tacky to the touch in a few spots. These gray spots look just like a drop of water would if you dripped it on unsealed grout. We've noticed that as the grout dried, the majority of these "spots" disappeared or lightened considerably. And while not pristine - the improvement is quite noticeable!

My husband liked your ammonia cleaning suggestion and we're going to give it one more day to see if this area dries as well. If not, he wants to try the ammonia cleaning on a small, tile length area and mop up after 5 minutes Not 10). Would that be okay for a test area? If it works well, we'll try on a larger area. At this point, he wants to go with least "invasive" efforts first.

Then 6 months or so from now, if we can't live with it, he suggests we strip the grout and he'll help me with a color sealant. (After a year of weekend labor he's pooped!)

Thank you again for your assistance. Our kitchen flooring status is very slight in the big scheme of things and we're meant to live in and enjoy the improvements!

Have a good year!

Lynn K

[SABoyt]

Lynn, glad to hear things are getting better.

You can go as light as white or as dark as black on your colorant. You can even have the exact color of the original grout duplicated since you know the manufacturer and color. There are several manufactures out there for colorant. The one we use 99% of the time is the best on the market with the longest warranty (lifetime). It is not available in small quantities, so you would end up purchasing 8x more than you need. Unless you know someone in the industry that could help you acquire it. :twitch:

[Lynn K]

Steve,

Actually we do know someone, so I'd be curious to know the brand name of the color sealant you recommend.

Gotta admit at this point I'm highly gun-shy about this whole process.

I'm sorry I couldn't provide pics, but those gray spots are actually the tacky areas - so probably just darker because they are still wet within the grout. As mentioned, it is drying somehow (prayers to the Grout God answered?)but some areas feel just like dry grout and others a bit "satiny" still.

RE: the ammonia cleaning process:

***Must it be done to the entire floor, including the dry areas, to appear even? I WILL do that small test first to see the results.

***Will ammonia cleaning strip out all the sealer, so that it will have to be redone? (If so, that's me you hear running for the woods)

Thanks again,

Lynn

[Davestone]

Lynn, sealers need to be removed for color sealant to stick, be absorbed and do it's job.But then your grout will be sealed again.I generally strip the grout joints before color sealing with a sealer and coating stripper, ammonia may strip the sealer if it's water based.

[Lynn K]

Dave,

Thank you for your input! My husband wants to avoid color seal at this time and try cleaning first. so we'll see how it goes.

LK

Steve,

Thanks in advance again!

***Shaw Ceramic Sanded Floor Grout, a Polymer Modified Grout, is water based, correct? (described earlier in string)

***Will the ammonia cleaning process just strip off the sealer that has not absorbed?

He'd like to try this cleaning first in one small area, rather than the sealer stripper and wants to wait only 5 minutes rather than the 10 you suggest. Would that still be effective? Appreciate your advice and not trying to ignore it, just a bit hesitant about anything more we do to the grout at this point.


***If ammonia cleaning effective, should it be done to the entire floor, including the dry areas, to appear even? Again, will it be removing just the excess unabsorbed sealer on top of the grout line?

***Will the grout be sealed following this cleaning porcess? Or need to be redone?

Sure wish you were in our neck of the woods to evaluate onsite. We like your advice, but know you're hindered by diagnostics made sight unseen - any suggestions for a counterpart in our MD-DC metro area?

Consulted the owners/managers of two tile stores prior to sealing grout and they only sold product, but didn't know about application.

Sorry to be so relentless, but with your responses to my latest ***questions here, we should have gained as much information from you as possible before proceeding forward.

Best Regards,

Lynn K

[SABoyt]

Dave is correct. The aquamix is water based sealer. The ammonia is a mild stripper. Since it is alkaline, it will take some of the sealer off. If you need to completely strip, a specific sealer might be needed. since there is so much sealer, you may need a gel stripper so it can dwell long enough to strip it thoroughly. I don't think the ammonia will strip that deeply. Less dwell time will strip less. Start with the 5 minutes and see where it takes you. If you strip too much, you can always just reseal the area that you stripped. If the sealer soaked into the grout, you will not be removing it all, just what is on the surface. We use alkaline solution, dwell time, high heat and vacuum to remove sealer.

We use Grout Perfect colorsealer. It is used by a large majority of the pros in our business. There is also TOG color seal which also does a good job and is sold more to pros also. I stay away from Aqua Mix and some of the lesser known brands.

I do know of a couple of companies in that area. We have a group of about 2000 pros on our bulletin board (elsewhere) that do cleaning, sealing and restoration. I personally know a couple of them in your area.

[doitright]

Hi Lynn, Welcome! :)

I didn't catch how this pertains to the USMC, but Semper Fi!

I suggest you apply Aqua Mix's Sealing and Coating Remover. If you contact Aqua Mix Tech, I'm sure they'll recommend the same. You may also be able to blend some of their Nano Scrub into the mix. Allow to dwell, and use a bristle brush to agitate.

You'll need to use caution that the grout isn't soft (which I doubt from the symptoms you describe), while brushing.

While rinsing, it will also help to have a wet vac on hand to remove the soiled residue.

After your grout has evened after stripping, we can review further options. Grout colorant may still be needed because of the series of events, sometimes causing newer situations to manifest.

[Lynn K]

Thanks John and Semper Fi!

I removed the reference from an earlier post, but couldn't edit the subject line. I do appreciate your answering the call from this former old PI Sgt.!

John and Steve,

My husband doesn't want to color seal or regrout at this point. Frankly after our efforts on the kitchen already, I agree.


Each day the floor appears more passable, and the sporadic small "wet spots" lighter. Also, I'm getting used to it and it's not worth being agitated 24/7. From the perspective of having seen the grout pristine a week ago it now looks just lived in.

I am also noticing just a few tiny areas of limited chalky white color in the grout - over application again?

Q: From what I've read this can be lifted off? I have Aquamix Heavy Duty Tile and Grout Cleaner as well as the remaining Aquamix Sealer's Choice Gold 15 on hand so can use either if you'd recommend that as way to go here. Both bought at local Tile warehouse for contractor use.

Spoke to a local general contractor recommended by a coworker yesterday and his advice was more extreme, so we don't really favor it. In reciting events he said he didn't believe I'd ever be happy with results even after cleaning or stripping and said colorant was NOT the way to go - would not look even and bound to get on tile. He recommended removing grout and starting over - Yikes! Told him hubby would never go for that!

I relayed John's less invasive ammonia cleaning method and he said that might be a way to go for the short term. Said he recommended using 25 ammonia to 75% water solution and a scrub brush - applying broad strokes while cleaning the entire floor, rather than agitating the grout line specifically. Rationale - since some areas of the floor looked fine, I'd likely end up with a more even look and also not risk brushing away as much of the sand in the grout. If I was happy with the results, leave it. If not, repeat in a week.

Q: Scrub the grout line directly with nylon grout brush or overall tile and grout with floor brush? I'm bearing in mind this last advice was from a general contractor, not a tile/grout expert.

At this point, I'd be happy just to have no further damage and clean off the excess surface sealer without damaging or removing what has sealed below. I want to be confident the floor is clean and that we won't track sealer to the tiles or have matter adhere to the grout lines as we walk about our kitchen. It all seems dry now – just want to clean off any residue that may have dried on top.

The ammonia cleaning seems the least invasive fix to start with unless someone else weighs in here. This can be confusing for a newbie and I see why there are so many posts for help on this site! Wish I found it much earlier.


Thanks!

Lynn

[doitright]

Hi Lynn :)

I'll keep it simple and disagree 100% with your contractors statement about grout colorant.

Regarding the ammonia wash... 25-33% is normal for neutralizing. A stronger solution may be needed for stripping. I suggest to only work on the fogged or light areas of the grout first. After everything has dried to your satisfaction, you can proceed and reseal.

Don't worry about getting the sealer on the tiles, it just needs to be buffed off as you go, and not allowed to dry on the surface.

I would consider using a solvent based sealer in your application. My opinion you'll get a better penetration, and not have a recurrence of what you're going through now.

[Lynn K]

Thanks John,

Exhibitng my ignorance here, but I thought by ammonia washing I'd only be cleaning off the excess sealer on top of the sealer the did penetrate fully - hence no need to reseal.

I was hoping to "touch up" spotted areas, not totally reseal. And desired those areas to be uniform with rest of grout. Are you saying I must do the entire floor again? Not sure I have the constitution for that - especially with no guarantee of results.

The grout over all does not look bad - pretty uniform pale gray, just some areas have small darker spots - they look like a small water drip. I could live with this - don't want worse

Also, I don't know sealers so would appreciate you defining the one you suggested. I have not received any guidance from the local Tile shops I've consulted.

Thanks!

Lynn

[SABoyt]

Hi Lynn. If the spots have gone away, and all that is left is a little cloudy haze, just try using the aqua mix sealer on a white cloth and buff over it by hand to remove the hazy layer. The haze is caused by having too much sealer in place and the sealer below dries before the top layer can penetrate. Thus leaving it on top and causing the cloudy look. To reactivate it, just use some of the same sealer. Just take care of each area as it appears. Over the next few days it should all be dry and your task done.

Forget about the ammonia for now, since it seems to be drying to an acceptable look, just remove the haze. I am sure the GC has his reasons for disliking the colorants, probably because he has seen it misapplied in the past. If done correctly it leaves a very consistent color and seal when completed - as evidenced by the pictures of past projects on my website. It only affects the tile if you are coloring grout on a soft absorbent stone, which should be done by a professional for best results. Re-grouting is a very extreme measure and is not called for.

I wouldn't use the HD tile and grout cleaner right now. It is very alkaline - probably more than than the ammonia mix. If you don't have a buildup of sealer on the grout, just stick with cleaning off the cloudy spots and forget the rest for now.

[Lynn K]

Steve,

Thank you to you and all who responded! Terrific site!

Lynn K

[doitright]

Hi Lynn :)

Of all the areas you cleaned and removed the excess sealer successfully, do they darken if you get them wet? :shades:

[Lynn K]

Hi John,

Haven't touched the floor yet - waiting for the weekend when we're free.

Thanks!

Lynn

[SmikeCarl]

I also have had problems with AquaMix NOT absorbing into the grout ... and yes, I have a modified sanded grout.

After reading all the knowledgable posts here I am convinced to give up the AquaMix sealer and consider the $100 a life lesson tuition payment.

Thanks for saving me more torment.:dance:

[SABoyt]

Carl, if the AM did not absorb, i would assume that nothing else, including water, would absorb into the grout either. Maybe you already have a sealer applied. No matter what kind of sealer you are planning to use you need to first test to see if the grout is absorbent. Pour some water on the grout line and see if it beads up or soaks in. Does the grout change color? (the darker the grout, the more change when wet). If it does not change color, it is not going to absorb any sealer. Test for other topicals that might be present like sealer or wax.