Tile Sealing Noobie Question - Dupont Stone & Tile Sealer

[Stomp]

Hi all - first time posting here. Was about to embark on a project and thought I best check w/ the experts first.

My father in law & I installed a limestone floor in mid-July that still hasn't been sealed. Shame on me - I know. It's a natural limestone (not the smooth shiny kind) with a lot of texture. Not very shiny - which I tend to like. Fortunately there haven't been any spills since installation, and for the most part the floor has remained clean. A few pictures of the tiles (very small) are attached.

I had good intentions for sealing - and a while back purchased DuPont Advanced Stone & Tile Sealer from Lowes. It seems I can't post a link here - but if you were to google that name you'd arrive at Dupont's page for the product. It was approx. $90 for a gallon - so not cheap (IMO) but not expensive. Product attributes per the bottle are "Preserves stone's natural color and shine", "Easy-to-use, water-based formula", "Interior and exterior use" and "Great for natural stone floors". Product is supposed to last 3-5 years for interior surfaces.

There is very little information about this sealant available. I did, however, read a thread here that scared me. It seems this stuff is pretty permanent, and if I botch the application job I could end up in a world of hurt. It's about 60 degrees in my house right now (application temp is supposed to be between 50-80), so from that perspective I'm good. But I'm a rookie - and I'd be doing my first sealing job with permanent sealant on my foyer, master bath & guest bath...not sure that's intelligent to do.

I have to admit that given that it has taken me almost six months to get around to sealing it, the fact that this is said to last 3-5 years is most likely a significant benefit vs. those that need to be applied every 6-12 months.

My question is really whether the prevailing belief here is to avoid this Dupont product (that can be a PITA if applied incorrectly) or if I should be ok provided I follow the directions & take my time. Thanks for any feedback.

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[Stomp]

So I couldn't help myself & I did a test section in front of the fireplace (totally apart from the rest of the floor in case I didn't like it). So far so good - though I know a full cure won't be for 24-72 hours. That said, even now I can barely tell I put anything on - which is a good thing IMO. I think I'll hit Lowes to get a bunch of extra rags & stuff for the full application job - but as of now think I'll be proceeding.

[edit - before & after pic added. Before pic has the black stick in the lower left corner]

Of course I'll still be checking this thread frequently to see if I get any feedback. Thanks & have a great 2009.

Derek

[SABoyt]

Derek, sounds like you can follow instructions so it shouldn't be a problem. That's a good sealer for stone. You probably should apply two coats since you have a very porous stone. The easiest application would be with a paint pad. Also wastes the least amount of sealer this way. Pour it in a paint tray, dip and apply. Once it is on the floor, work it in with the paint pad, paying attention to the grout lines. Be sure not to leave too much accumulated in the grout. Let it dry per the directions and take up any excess. If you happen to have a good microfiber mop, that can be used to even the coat after applying with the paint pad. This also prevents any puddling that would be a problem later. Just work small areas at a time and you will be fine.

[Stomp]

Thanks for the feedback, Steve. I decided to take it slow and only did 2 bathrooms yesterday. This AM I noticed some minor hazing - however it seems to be something that can be wiped up with a towel. Is this normal, or should I get no haze whatsoever after doing my final wipedown after my last coat?

Your help is much appreciated.

Derek

[SABoyt]

Some hazing is to be expected. Just continue to wipe it off as you are doing. Any tough spots can be wiped with a cloth containing some of the sealer. This will re-emulsify the sealer and allow it to be removed. Then just buff over it with your white pad or cotton cloth. The more you can keep the puddles wiped down, the less hazing you will have. We always run a floor buffer over the entire surface after it has dried. This takes off all the hazing and cleans the tiles really well.

[cjsun@l-d-m.net]

I have bought several gallons of sotone sealers form Lowe's few years ago. It was like $89.00 a gallon. I applied three coats on my ourdoor Traveltine patio, but less than a year later several black spots start appearing. The spots had spread to four tiles now, so far I could not find any cleaner that would take them off. Any suggestion?

I am also getting ready to reapply the sealer on the patio, is the Dupont Advanced Sealer still a good choice for this application?

[GeorgeT]

CJ -

DuPont Advanced sealer is a high quality water based sealer that will perform well on the travertine and grout. Both materials need to be cleaned well prior to resealing.
As for the black spots, I cannot say much about how to clean... a picture would help get an idea of what might be happening.....

[dawnv]

I'm sitting here with my new bottle of Dupont Advance Stone & Tile Sealer, with my newly installed travertine kitchen floor downstairs waiting to be sealed. A google search lead me to you. :yipee: I just wanted to say thank you! I'm feeling much more comfortable about all this now. I just have one more question. I take it that since it says 'avoid prolonged exposure to vapours' that this is laden with VOCs. Though water-based so not as bad as it could be? It also says 'keep children and pets out of area until foot traffic resumes'. Foot traffic can resume 6-8 hours after application. Is it the vapours they're worried about and the children's exposure to them or exposing the uncured floor to small, unpredictable, little feet? Do I have to take my small children out of the house for the 6-8 hours to avoid the fumes or just keep them away from the floor so they don't touch it? I guess what I'm really asking is how long will my house stink after this goes on? Any suggestions would be very much appreciated. And thanks again!

[GeorgeT]

Dawn -

Actually that product is not laden with VOC's ... as a water based sealer, it's down around 13g/ltr. In a regular room or kitchen you should not notice much if any odor.
Staying off of the sealed surface for 6-8 hours gives the sealer the evaporation time it needs, gives the actives a chance to settle in and, if your kids are like mine, prevents spills on a floor who's sealer has not yet cured.
You don't have to take the kids out of the house but they don't get to help either....

[Stone Dude]

Surface Treatment Technologies is what I use. the price is competitive with others, its a solvent based sealer. by far the best I have used and it has NO odor

even most water based sealers have some funky or musty odor, but not usually too strong or overbearing.

just make sure you have adequate ventilation.

[ccarlisle]

You're right - there is precious little information that Dupont is willing to share with the average consumer that buys on-line or from Lowes - just confuses the poor people...

To say that "Dupont Advanced Stone and Tile Sealer has only 13 gm/liter VOC's in it" is part of that theory. In some jurisdictions the actual amount of VOC's in any product is a target to be reduced for sure, but definitely in need of clarification. Because the amount of VOC's in another jurisdiction may not be as relevant as the nature of the VOC's...

For example, if I were to give you a product had "only had 13gm/liter of VOC's" - but that that VOC amount was made up of say, benzene, or butyl carbitol, then you wouldn't want any part of that product in your house, now would you?

You wouldn't... trust me.:tongue:

I also surmise that this is the reason several products are banned in Canada, as this one appears to be. I put forward that these and other products contain small but significant amounts of banned solvents and are therefore disallowed.

Can anyone dispute this?

[MDS]

Charles,

Is this stuff really banned in Canada or have they simply chosen not to sell it there? Looking at the MSDS (http://msds.dupont.com/msds/pdfs/EN/PEN_09004a358032c476.pdf) it seems pretty benign, with the only obvious VOC being a variant of propylene glycol which is very common and pretty safe. Pick up any can of interior latex paint and you will see VOC contents way, way over 13 g/l and usually that is propylene glycol as well. And propylene glycol is what they use in fog effect machines so I think it's not too bad.

I know an MSDS is not a formula but it must list anything considered hazardous and traditionally will show the top 5 ingredients including water.

I find it hard to believe that there is a solvent so noxious in the formula that it would not be listed in the US MSDS yet be banned in Canada. Not defending the product, just not sure of your conclusions.

And I like to argue :D

[ccarlisle]

Glycol ethers have little ressemblance to their starting glycols so PNB cannot be related to PG. PNB is a replacement glycol ether for a widely-used-and now-banned ethylene counterpart that many companies still use.

Those were banned in Canada about a decade ago. Here we must list all ingredients above 1% in concentration on the DList. I imagine the Canadian market is just too small...

[MDS]

My bad, when I first glanced at the MSDS and saw the Propylene Glycol Ether it just clicked as "safe" in my mind. Once I got around to posting I had wrongly switched it to plain glycol which like you say is a whole different animal.

Propylene Glycol Ethers are not in the same group as other glycol ethers from a safety standpoint. I thought the EB type solvents were taken out of anything retail long ago and the PGE's were pretty common worldwide, even CA & Japan. So I still can't see why that DuPont product would be banned in Canada.

Do they still allow ethylene glycol in retail paints in Canada? I saw that on an MSDS the other day and was kind of surprised. Sure, there are millions of gallons of it in radiators everywhere but thought it was phased out of household products.

[GeorgeT]

The DuPont Advanced Stone and Tile Sealer is available in Canada.