Questions about Sealers

[SABoyt]

Ben, i should qualify my statements regarding 511. Since it is available at the big DIY stores, it is often applied by those that are told it is the perfect sealer for everything stone. Since i was not present when these sealers were applied, i have no idea how they were applied. Sometimes it is by the HO and sometimes it is done by "professionals". I don't know their methods or if they are following the directions or not. I do know, that i hear 511 a lot when we are looking at problems, especially on travertine. I think the 511 works well for sealing, but i don't like that it can leave a sticky residue so often. (Is this a result of being improperly applied or a characteristic of the sealer?) I also do not like giving up brain cells to solvent based anything - i have none to spare.

We mostly use Stonetech tile and grout sealer, Stonetech grout sealer professional, Stonetech pro exterior sealer and aquamix sealers choice gold. When we apply them, i know how it is done. I also know that my customers are not complaining about the floor collecting more dirt than usual after sealing. And, i know they hold up as advertised because i have repeat customers that are happy with the results that we obtain for them. We also test thoroughly before selecting a sealer or recommending sealing.

[Sponsored Links]

[Steven Hauser]

:scratch:

Not sure what you don't understand, but, I am sure of the rules of this forum.

We need to split off from this thread to continue any education the two Steve's (Steven & Steve)wish to continue, that includes you as well Ben.

There are several misconceptions when it comes to solvent versus water mediums, as there are several misconceptions about the solids used to repel oil and water infiltration.

I can go into your points more in seperate thread if you want.

However, I think we need to get out of this homeowners thread.
My .02

[duneslider]

I am finding this very interesting. I have used 511 a lot and never had a problem. Anyone else feel there is a problem here?

I also have read that the "health and safety" concerns aren't just with solvent based products. Just because a water based product is carrying the agents doesn't mean it isn't toxic once airborne or by contact.

Anyone use "my stone care" products? Link (http://www.mystonecare.com/) I had a good conversation with them a few months back and they seemed to be very knowledgeable to me. Obviously, they think their sealers are the best. The guy I talked to felt their products had some advantages over the stonetech products. He also mentioned that they think the 511 (miracle) sealers are not close to as good as stonetech or their products.

[duneslider]

Steven,

I checked out the website in your sig. Your products sound similar to the ones I mentioned above. What makes your product "easier" to use? The other guy I talked to said his was easier to use than stonetech's also. Just curious what is easier, and why it is easier?

Also, could you pm me your prices on the sealers? Or provide a link with prices?

[SABoyt]

Bryan, do you ever return to your sealed installations after 6 months to a year to see how they are doing? What does the customer think of the 511 or anything else that you have used? I find it difficult to evaluate the manufacturers claims. Just as you, i find they all have the best sealer in the world and the easiest to apply. How do we decide?

[duneslider]

I have seen several of the ones I used miracle products on, including my own house. I am yet to notice any of the problems you described. Not in anyway saying your claims aren't true but I just haven't seen them. I haven't had anyone unhappy about any of the products I have used. I mostly have used 511. Aqua mix a couple times, stone specific a few times and stonetech a few times.

They all seemed about the same to me when it comes to applying them. I have been happy with the stone specific seal and enhance. No long term results with it yet but seems nice to use.

[SABoyt]

I have always felt that the problem was with the application not the sealer. But since i don't use it myself (because of the health ratings and its difficulty to remove) i have not been able to substantiate my opinions. You no doubt apply it correctly and remove the unabsorbed liquid from the surface. I had 2 travertine jobs within the last month that reported the same problems - excess collection of dirt - after someone had applied 511.

I also have read that the "health and safety" concerns aren't just with solvent based products. Just because a water based product is carrying the agents doesn't mean it isn't toxic once airborne or by contact.
Aquamix Sealers choice gold, has a health rating of 1. I will work with that all day long!!!! Miracle does not post an HMIS number. Wonder why?

[duneslider]

I would like to think I am doing it correctly. I try to read the directions and follow them best I can. I will humbly admit I am no pro cleaner or sealer and would love any tips provided.

I typically apply the sealer with a sponge or paint roller (depending on area) and let it sit for a designated time. After the wait, I wipe up any sealer remaining with a towel.

This was how I was taught but over the years (mostly finding this forum) I have found much of what I was taught to be wrong. Originally, the guy I worked for would roll on the sealer and wouldn't wipe any up.

In my area the 511 seal and enhance went way up in price so I don't know if I will be using it as much as I was.

[SABoyt]

On travertine and smoother stone, we apply with a paint pad (instead of roller) this allows us to press it somewhat into the tile and grout lines. We then follow up with a microfiber mop to smooth it across the surface and eliminate any puddles. After it is dry, we run our floor buffer with a white or hogs hair pad over the entire surface to remove any film. Any cloudy spots, we just spritz with the sealer to re-emulsify before buffing. Using this method goes pretty fast with experience.

[duneslider]

I thought about trying those paint pads, thought they would work better. I will try them next time.

[Steven Hauser]

Hi Bryan,

Before we try and sell you anything, let's establish why I say what I say.

The link page you posted has good information. I believe they do restorations and resale products.

We manufacture our products.

1st We are the owners of Surface Treatment Technologies. We are 5 guys who also own tile installation, stone fabrication, and restoration companies currently.

Easier- We don't always apply the products ourselves, and as such define easier as the ability to delegate the cleaning and application of the products to an inexperienced individual and achieve success.

Easier- Fewer trips to the job to achieve results.

Easier- Fewer brain twisting problems to overcome.

Easier- Less cost over time.

:)

PS if you want pricing please send me your email address and I will send you pricing.

Our online paypal link is a work in progress.

Thank you

[Steven Hauser]

Steve-
Do you have any questions?

I still maintain applying an impregnating sealer is easy. Sticking with it to clean it after you apply it is easy.
:monster:

[SABoyt]

Steven, i didn't say it wasn't easy. We do thousands of sf per week. For us it is easy. For the home owner that does not do this on a regular basis, i don't think it is easy for them to get the best results. Just my opinion. The problem arises when they buy the wrong product and apply it incorrectly or incompletely. If people want to keep doing it wrong and pay me to fix it, I'm ok with that. :yummy: We do a lot of problem correction from well meaning HOs and so called professionals. We make mistakes also, but we are there to correct them when we do.

I have never found a sealer that was difficult to apply and buff. I have however found some that when incorrectly applied are a bear to remove. 511 on saltillo for example. There are a couple of other petroleum based sealers out there that will leave an undetectable residue behind that attracts dirt when not properly buffed off the surface.

As i said before, i have never tried your products. If you would like to send us samples, we will give it a go and see what we think.

[coastalhp]

I definitely have to agree with Steve on this (even though this particular point may not have been Steven's main point.) I don't know of anyone who professionally applies sealers who does things the same way they did when they first started their business. Obviously, there are modifications made for the purpose of production, but there was also a learning curve in simply working with various surfaces and sealers.

It's easy after you've been doing it for awhile (as with anything.) But there are so many options, so many surfaces and so much information (most of it contradicting) that I think homeowners are overwhelmed and overloaded.

Maybe we should start a thread that compiles information on sealers (in general, rather than by particular brands), the pro's and con's of each type, when to use them and how to use them.

After all, many homeowners do like to do-it-themselves and should have access to unbiased information. If I remember correctly, it was a homeowner who originally started this topic.

[Steven Hauser]

Look fellas,

I'm not trying to belittle your knowledge base, but, really, it isn't hard and most DIY people follow directions to a T. If they do that or call us, they succeed every time.

Most fiascos I get involved with are from a fellow pro who doesn't read directions or ask questions.

My .02