What's the state of the diamond blades industry? [Archive] - Ceramic Tile Advice Forums - John Bridge Ceramic Tile

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ramsesblades
08-06-2008, 06:50 PM
I work in the diamond tools industry including tile blades, and I would like to get every body's opinion on ways that wholesalers and distributors can better service contractors needs. What do you think we can really do better on?

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cx
08-06-2008, 06:53 PM
Welcome, ramsblades. Please add a first name to that big signature line for us to use. :)

It's a bit better than your first try, but still lookin' a lot like spam to me. :shades:

ramsesblades
08-06-2008, 07:02 PM
Thanks for welcoming me in here Mr Administrator!
I would have appreciated if you however took the time to reply to my question!

cx
08-06-2008, 07:05 PM
What do you think we can really do better on?Getting permission before advertising on someone else's website? :)

mdanforth
08-06-2008, 07:15 PM
give away some free diamonds, then I could save some $$$ on the wedding ring :lol1:

gueuzeman
08-06-2008, 07:16 PM
Stop lifting contractor lists from tile stores and then cold calling us?

Website, a few circulars, that's all. I'LL CALL YOU IF OR WHEN I NEED YOU.

gueuze

gueuzeman
08-06-2008, 07:19 PM
Oh- and a bit off topic (me?)- Tracy hall the GE research scientist who invented the synthetic diamond process, died last week. He and his wife were close friends of my parents for the last 60 years or so.

gueuze

John Corley
08-06-2008, 07:21 PM
The sales pitch. Very big area that needs improvement. At least with DBW and some of the others that I have dealt with.

It is simple, if you call, say this

We sell blades. They can do this, and they cost this...

Not hey I got your name from so and so over at so and so, don't be so damn slick with the pitch, just be honest and direct.

Right now, I would say that blade salesmen have about the same reputation as lawyers and "very" used car salesmen.

If you guys are different, you could do well around here. :twitch:

ddmoit
08-06-2008, 07:23 PM
Interesting tidbit, Gueuze. He's got a Wiki listing...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tracy_Hall

ramsesblades
08-06-2008, 07:27 PM
<to gueuzeman>
I perfectly understand how you feel about this and I absolutely don't condone the kind of practices that you described. It's a tough market out there and some wholesalers resort to some very questionable practices. Point well taken though!
<to mdanforth>
You will find free stuff everywhere! However nothing is actually free. Somebody is somehow footing the bill.

K_Tile
08-06-2008, 07:37 PM
I love the line, " I'll go ahead and send you out ten blades for free and if you like them just tell a friend and we will bill you later!"

I only do business with those I trust and build relationships with. I'm not a whore for sales. I don't let my GCs price shop me so I dont price shop my dist. You never get any deals if you deal with 20 different saw blade guys. I like one guy one price.

ramsesblades
08-06-2008, 07:45 PM
I know exactly who you referring to by DBW. I am not here to talk about my peers of the diamond blades industry. I am here to really garner contractors opinions of distributors and retailers just so that our organization can better address contractors concerns. As far as I am concerned I don't like to be overtly solicited and I try to replicate that in everything I do. I think well crafted and focus advertising campaigns, plus outstanding quality products, and last but not least first class service are the key ingredients to any business venture success! While implementing those key ingredients one should always run away from Lady Greed! Indeed, greed is one the principal roots of the world ills to speak globally!
Again thank you for your honest feedback!

ceramictec
08-06-2008, 10:31 PM
:yawn:

HS345
08-06-2008, 11:29 PM
I like my spam with pineapple slices. :yummy: How about you guys? :blah:

Shaughnn
08-07-2008, 01:35 AM
Ramses,
I make a principled point to NEVER patronize cold-callers. I don't care how good the "deal" might be, I'd rather starve out the practice than give it a moment more life. I hate cold-calling just that much.
A quality product, an accessible website, build a respected reputation over a long while and never ever ever lie to me. Eventually, I'll find my way to your door and if I find value in the experience, I'll bookmark you.
Best of luck,
Shaughnn

Tile Machine
08-07-2008, 05:12 AM
I want the best porcelain, ceramic, marble dry cutting 4" blade out there.
one that cuts like a wet saw!

I really like the blades from DBW, they are the best I have seen so far in my limited use of blades... but I hate the sales people!!!
Who knows where I can find one?

ramsesblades
08-07-2008, 08:16 PM
For HS345 & All the skeptics:
Please don't be cynical! Where is the spam here? Nobody is being solicited here. Let's get things straight. My organization hardly carry tile tools so how are you being spam then? Well I am just here to have a nice chat with you all! I understand all your frustration and suspiciousness however not everything is dark black in life! You will find bad retailers and good retailers all over the places and the same way you will find bad contractors and good contractors(are you one of them??) all over. Whether or not our organization website gets sales/traffic from this forum it's in no way going to affect our overall success!
If you don't like spam.. keep away from it!

ramsesblades
08-07-2008, 08:21 PM
Good point you made there! All you gotta do is give your business to the retailer that does the best job to meet your end to end tool needs! If the first transaction is an unpleasant experience there is no need to be going back to the same supplier.

ramsesblades
08-07-2008, 08:26 PM
The world wide web is your best friend most particularly Google. If you want to find a substitute for you DBW supplies then search the tool online! If you are patient enough or lucky enough you will find some place where to get your tools.

Shaughnn
08-07-2008, 09:01 PM
Ramses,
Oh, if it were only that simple. Every minute I'm on the phone with some cold-calling blade slinger is a minute I'm not setting tile. But, just as I'm not able to stop solicitation faxes, I'm also unable to prevent them from calling me because they falsely claim to have a previous relationship with me (thereby ignoring the "Do Not Call List" which all of my numbers are on).
I met the folks at Diteq at the Coverings show in 2007. Someone whom I respect introduced me to their equipment at their booth and I've decided to keep them as a supplier. In return, I've NEVER gotten a sales call from them trying to get me to buy a few more items. When I need it, I call. That's the way I like it. Any other business model is unwelcome, as far as I'm concerned.
And I do believe that your appearance here does qualify as SPAM, albeit "SPAM-Lite" perhaps. You are very certainly looking for sales. That's your purpose here, and the round-about conversation you're hoping to keep going is a means to that end. I don't blame you, though I will ask that you browse the forum, contribute where your expertise allows and make an attempt not to insert your sales pitch into otherwise honest advice. Our members appreciate the advice and conversation they receive here, and they tend to demonstrate that appreciation in patronage. Prove you're here for more than just selling blades and you'll probably get more sales in the long run than if this particular thread were to collect 10's-of-thousands of views.
Best of luck,
Shaughnn

ceramictec
08-07-2008, 09:11 PM
just as I'm not able to stop solicitation faxes, I'm also unable to prevent them from calling me because they falsely claim to have a previous relationship with me (thereby ignoring the "Do Not Call List" which all of my numbers are on).guess you never used the FTC - Complaint Assistant (https://www.ftccomplaintassistant.gov/FTC_Wizard.aspx?Lang=en)

Shaughnn
08-07-2008, 09:41 PM
Brian,
The "a friend of yours said I should give you a call" line is designed to get around the "Do Not Call List". Businesses are allowed to call numbers on that list IF they have a previous relationship with the number's owner or if they have a personal referral to call. The premise of a previous acquaintance let's them get their foot in the proverbial door. Just like the vacuum cleaner salesmen of yore, these guys will do or say anything to get you into their audience.
I hate em,
Shaughnn

JTG
08-07-2008, 11:07 PM
I get paid to say I know those guys? Wouldn't that be sweet?
:) JTG

Foochacho
08-08-2008, 12:34 AM
Shouldn't it only work if they can give you a legitimate friends name?

Aphello
08-08-2008, 12:56 AM
I got a cold call from a guy who opened his pitch this way -

"Heyyyyy there Brad! You're a tough guy to get a hold of! (My name is Brandon BTW.) You must be like a vermin, always chasing after a piece of that cheese!"

"Who is this?" I say.

"What you don't recognize my voice??? If you put a name to the voice, I'll send you on a trip to Cabo San Lucas!! Ha Ha Ha. Just kidding Brad! This is Mike buddy! You know, Mike from -click-

Oops.

:rolleyes:

ceramictec
08-08-2008, 05:51 PM
annoying in every way ! :mad:

ramsesblades
08-08-2008, 06:54 PM
Thank you all for your great contributions! I truly appreciate them! Keep them coming...
This upcoming week I will have some stuff about tile cutting to talk about so get ready!
Wishing everybody a great week end!

gueuzeman
08-08-2008, 08:22 PM
So he punches out on the time clock on friday evening, and has said that he will be back on monday. Sounds like being here is a job. LOL,, I'm here all the time because I have no life, err, I mean TILE IS MY LIFE! Pretty sad statement, really.

Anyone want to take bets that this guy and new member aphello are one and the same person? Or maybe a tag team duo from the same firm? Me, just a cynic, and happy to stay that way.

gueuze

Mountain Tile
08-08-2008, 08:54 PM
Good posting gueuze, I hate diamond blade salesmen, they are so frigin ignorant. How many people actually buy their crappy sales pitch any way. I think Shuagnn pretty much has this guy pegged, just trying to sell his shpleel.

ramsesblades
08-11-2008, 11:26 AM
Since the South Korean and Chinese have been dumping diamond tools in the US market, diamond tools shops and business KEEP popping up everywhere! Although low cost and very often great quality import diamond tools have made the tools more affordable, they have in the process created a plethora of opportunist looking for ways to make fast money! Therefore being cautious is strongly recommended.
For instance if you are looking to establish business relationship with a supplier outside of your place of residence..it will be good to do some research on the company as far as where they are located..do they offer means to contact the company, do they have clearly posted shipping and return policy on their website, and last but not least google them for any bad reviews. No matter what I buy from the Internet, I follow that process.
All I can say is that our company adhere to high ethical standards. We believe that it's the only way we can retain and attract businesses.
Any comments? Questions?

RevBubba
08-11-2008, 01:54 PM
Well, I googled your company looking for any GOOD reviews - and I found nothing. Zero.

So I won't be buying from you, because I only do business with suppliers that have established a positive reputation in the business, and neither CostCuttingBlades nor Specialty Tool have done this to my satisfaction.

ramsesblades
08-11-2008, 02:27 PM
I think I said any "bad reviews" By the way good reviews can always be manufactured--but that's beside the point! It's within your rights no to shop from us! At least you put to practice my piece of advice (even though the analysis of your findings leaves to be desired..practice makes perfect they say...). I hope from now on you will put it to practice whenever you shop online!

duneslider
08-11-2008, 02:42 PM
So, I have seen a lot of talk saying your stuff is great (mainly on your website) but I don't see any selection for tile blades on your site nor any indication why the blades are great. I think there are two continuous rim 10" tile blades. What makes these better, or just as good, as the blades sold by Felker, Pearl, Diteq, DeWalt, MK, etc. I am really skeptical of any blade that is called heavy duty that costs 15 bucks. I am fine paying $100 bucks for a blade that works, but I hate buying 15 dollar blades that don't work.

Having used good blades and cheap blades I know the good blades are worth $$$. So, if your blades are "good" then why are you giving them away?

Also, it seems that your company really doesn't have any desire to offer premium blades for the tile industry since your offerings don't seem too great in that area.

Your postings have seemed like disguised sales pitches but that can't be the case because you don't really have anything to offer us.

Maybe you are just here to talk about diamond blades.

ramsesblades
08-11-2008, 03:14 PM
Your questions are fair. I am glad that you were able to find tile blades that work for you! We stand firm and tall behind any of our inventory items. There is only one way to find out the quality of what we have to offer and it is to put them through the test. I have requested a full field review from 3 members of the forum staff. To answer your questions in regard to our plans for the tile blades category we have plans to expand it by the end of the year. Well I am here not only to discuss diamond blades but also to get a very good idea of what the tile contractors are looking for. That's going to help us as we expand our tile blades assortment. However I appreciate your comments!

duneslider
08-11-2008, 03:28 PM
I appreciate your response. I look forward to seeing reviews that are given.

We really are a friendly bunch here but as you have found, many have had very negative experiences with diamond blade salesmen. Unfortunately, you kind of have to prove you are one of them.

In all the forums I have ever visited this forum is very unique in that the owners/moderators don't censor peoples opinions. You will find that even if a sponsors products don't live up to their claims anyone is free to tell why. I am sure the reviews of the blades will get a fair and honest review.

Bill Vincent
08-13-2008, 12:58 PM
I am really skeptical of any blade that is called heavy duty that costs 15 bucks.

Ya know, ma daddy tole me a long time ago, that if you by a dollar's worth for 10 cents, chance are what you bought, ain't worth a dime. ;)

ceramictec
08-13-2008, 02:12 PM
I already asked "ramsesblades" to send me one of those cheap heavy duty blades and I would test her out and give my feedback on it to the forum.

I have 2 commercial jobs coming up and will use the saw on both.....good test for someone who wants to get a good name out for their blades :D

giving away a blade isn't much to lose for a test result on a popular forum.

khm28043
08-14-2008, 05:46 AM
I never buy from someone calling me asking for my business. Most reputable places have enough customers and word of mouth will bring me to them and most of the time people call you are working and do not want to stop and take the time to get to know them.

Although we may pay a few dollars more for a blade it is better to be able to see it touch and have it available now not in a few days. Btw. Rotozip has a great 4" diamond blade that fits on a makita grinder and lasts a long cinsidering it only cost $15.

Kevin

ramsesblades
08-14-2008, 06:02 AM
Soon enough, you all will find out the quality of what we carry!
I am starting to see that the diamond blades industry has done a vey poor job of addressing tile contractor needs. I think they have spent too much time marketing contractors doing demolition, wall sawing, core drilling, pipe cutting, asphalt/green concrete cutting because the blades needed to perform those jobs provide better margins. I can see that the tile cutting tools business still has an untapped potential. I think we can all work together to design and create tile blades and tile cutting tools that will constantly provide high performance results! That is why I love this forum...it's a good platform to critic tile cutting tools as a mean to weeding out low quality products from the tile cutting business.
I understand that most of you have had some unfortunate experience with diamiond blades retailers...but I want you to get ready for something new and different and positive. The best business relationships are those where all the parties involved are winners!
Stay tuned

HS345
08-14-2008, 06:31 AM
Could you give us a little insight as to how your company is able to produce "top quality" blades and sell them at such "low prices"? Because frankly, it is just not believable.

Also, is your first name Ramses, or Atlas? :yo:

I would also like to ask you if you have any real life knowledge of the tile industry, or are ONLY here to attempt to hawk your products? You would be much more believable if you had some actual experience in the actual tile industry.

I for one am a bit surprised that the mods have allowed you to go on for so long. :shrug:

sgrandjean
08-14-2008, 06:49 AM
Greg,
Also, is your first name Ramses, or Atlas?

In my best Sean Connery/James Bond voice..."History...Making History."

Cheers.

ramsesblades
08-14-2008, 06:52 AM
From HS345
I would also like to ask you if you have any real life knowledge of the tile industry, or are ONLY here to attempt to hawk your products? You would be much more believable if you had some actual experience in the actual tile industry.
The owner of the company has more than 20 years of experience in the diamond tools business not only selling but also inside the factories! We own a demolition company as well! We know exactly what we are talking about. We test everything before offering it for sale. We understand that in tile cutting there is no room for error! The tile is cut straight with smooth edges or it aint worth glueing! I am still around because I am being very careful about not begging for a sale, it's all about the approach. We all are gonna become friends. But I understand the skepticism and gladly welcome it. I didn't expect to be welcome with red carpet and botles of Champains!

HS345
08-14-2008, 07:00 AM
Still no first name eh?

The owner of the company has more than 20 years of experience in the diamond tools business not only selling but also inside the factories! We own a demolition company as well! We know exactly what we are talking about. We test everything before offering it for sale. We understand that in tile cutting there is no room for error! The tile is cut straight with smooth edges or it aint worth glueing!

I think that pretty much sums up your experience in the ceramic tile industry. A simple no, would have sufficed.:D

ramsesblades
08-14-2008, 07:34 AM
My first name is Atlas!
HS345
I think that pretty much sums up your experience in the ceramic tile industry. A simple no, would have sufficed.
Your entitled to your own opinion.
I see some bitterness in your attitute and I will excuse it.
You can try do as much bashing as you desire... We are continuing our march..

HS345
08-14-2008, 07:43 AM
Atlas, I am not bashing you, and meant no offense. Just call me skeptical.:)

I guess your name was there all along, sorry, it's just that Atlas is an unusual name so I didn't realize. Cool name though.

I see some bitterness in your attitute and I will excuse it.
I'm not bitter at all, but thanks for excusing me. :rolleyes:

ramsesblades
08-14-2008, 07:52 AM
HS345
Atlas, I am not bashing you, and meant no offense. Just call me skeptical
It's all fair game! Your skepticism is warranted! Trust me, we do really intend to redefine the diamond tools business regardless of what people think.
The owner of the company understand the products, he understands the contractor because he is one of them himself, and he knows the right supppliers. Anyway this forum cooperation and feedback will help us find the right products for the tile industry!

Bill Vincent
08-14-2008, 10:21 AM
making a diamond blade that has a softer metal rim that won't last nearly as long, or using less diamond in the rim, or whatever else you've done to lower the price on your blades that much, is not understanding the industry, regardless of what your boss did prior to this.

ramsesblades
08-14-2008, 03:52 PM
Bill Vincent:making a diamond blade that has a softer metal rim that won't last nearly as long, or using less diamond in the rim, or whatever else you've done to lower the price on your blades that much, is not understanding the industry, regardless of what your boss did prior to this.
Well since you are so happy with your current supplier...why don't you just use your time more efficiently by not giving me any attention whatsoever!
Better why not just create a thread that talk about the great products of your supplier so that the whole forum will go buy from him.
Let me teach you a lesson: it's easy to put words so nicely together as you do but one thing is sure not as easy which is to give some substance to the sentence created!

ddmoit
08-14-2008, 04:00 PM
:corn:

Shaughnn
08-14-2008, 04:03 PM
Whoa there, Ramses!
Do a little "Google test drive" on "Bill Vincent tile" and you'll find over 2,000 references. Bill's a very easy-going guy who's been putting himself out there for other people's tile questions for a long long while. I understand that you feel embattled here but you do need to remember that you willfully jumped into the deep-end here. Please don't fault us if the water isn't as warm as you'd like or the shore nearly as close as you'd hoped it to be.
Cheers,
Shaughnn

Tile Machine
08-14-2008, 04:59 PM
:corn: :corn:

ddmoit and me!!

Bill Vincent
08-14-2008, 05:27 PM
I call em as I see em. And I HAVE put the people out there who I've bought from-- both good AND bad. When you have NEARLY as much time in trying to help people out (read that as not advertising, but HELPING), then you can give me sh1t. Until then, this bud's for you:

:moon:

Let me teach you a lesson: it's easy to put words so nicely together as you do but one thing is sure not as easy which is to give some substance to the sentence created!

Let me teach YOU a lesson, sonny boy-- you need to learn a bit about your products, and your target audience, before you go spoutin off.

Sorry Shaughnn-- I think I just blew the easy-going part. :)

Mountain Tile
08-14-2008, 06:06 PM
:corn: :corn: :corn: Your gonna teach Bill Vincent a lesson, that;s funny right there. You have just displayed to me your true ignorance, and lack of knowledge of the tile trade.

ceramictec
08-14-2008, 06:07 PM
Sorry Shaughnn-- I think I just blew the easy-going part. :shake: :calm:

Shaughnn
08-14-2008, 06:12 PM
Damn, Bill! And here I thought *I* was the only one who could steam yer kettle? Who knew??? :corn:
Shaughnn

ramsesblades
08-14-2008, 06:46 PM
Oh well, I never really complained but I won't back down nor kiss up nobody on here..that aint happening in here....It's that easy. As far as I am concerned it's purely business!
I jumped into your great forum. I am not getting out unless I am thrown off the door. You can poke jokes and say whatever you want..I aint buying it....
Venerable Bill, all the aura for you bosss...but it aint coming near me...though Respect the knowledge but never fear it!

Bill Vincent
08-14-2008, 06:50 PM
Trust me when I tell you-- I actually held back. ;)

ramsesblades
08-14-2008, 06:56 PM
I am not you average diamond blades salesmen.. as a matter of fact I never call on on customers...that's why I wont react to the sarcasm in here! Let's get the party going then? Are you all in :tongue:

Bill Vincent
08-14-2008, 07:10 PM
Atlas, no one showing you the door, least of all me. Hell, I'm not even a moderator in here!! I couldn't show ya the door if I WANTED to, and I don't. But I made valid points in my post above. There's no way to compete with the premium blades on the market, and still sell your blades for 15.00, unless you're short cutting on the manufacturing process. I mentioned only two of the ways that's possible. Instead of giving me an intellectual answer, you got your back up, which is too bad. I'd have preferred to hear a bona fide answer back. But so be it.

You think ANY of us had it easy when we first come in here? Let me show you one of the very first threads I ever posted in this forum:

http://www.johnbridge.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=4871

Read that thread, and you'll see what you're getting is a CAKE WALK compared to the grilling I got. Hell, even John and CX got in my face!! :D Show me what you got!! If you've got a product worth being proud of, show it to me!! Don't get defensive!! Who knows-- maybe you can go back to your company with some constructive feedback, instead of an attitude!!

Trask
08-14-2008, 07:34 PM
Ramses what makes your blades "world altering" they look like the same ones everyone else is buying..Tell me specifically where your buying from.

I'm not interested in "cutting you out" I just wanna know where your getting them. Korea? So why are you different. I've seen the same blades in a dozen or more national companies sites..many are rebranded..but no different..and your prices are comparable but mind earth shaking...so detail the differences that distinguish your company if you would.

HS345
08-14-2008, 07:50 PM
Trask,
You, me, Bill, and others have asked Atlas to spell out exactly what makes "his" blades so special. He either can't, or won't.

Conclusion, they ain't special.

ramsesblades
08-14-2008, 07:51 PM
hold your breath...if what you found out about us is readily available everywhere then keeping on buying it there...
One of these I will get a review and the whole forum will be shocked!

ramsesblades
08-14-2008, 07:55 PM
I think that the best way to desmonstrate the quality of a product is to put it through a test...it won't be too long before the verdict is proclaimed!
Handg tough then...ok...

silvercitytile
08-14-2008, 08:08 PM
hey atlas. heard your passing out free blades to the members. i'll do a review.:D

ramsesblades
08-14-2008, 08:14 PM
silvercitytile
hey atlas. heard your passing out free blades to the members. i'll do a review.
Well sounds like you arrived late for the giveaway. Come back next year...

olzo55
08-14-2008, 08:22 PM
they can only afford to giveaway 3 of their $15 blades. wow.

Olzo

duneslider
08-14-2008, 08:31 PM
I haven't bought a lot of blades in my career but I will have to say that the $100 dollar blades I have bought have out performed the $15 dollar blades in every respect.

I have found the same thing to be true with good wood blades for my table saw and miter saw. Those $100 plus dollar blades cut better than the $15 dollar cheap blades. They are all carbide tipped but yet one is MUCH better than the other.

I got married a few years back and I can surely attest that $15 bucks doesn't buy you much in the way of diamonds. :rolleyes:

silvercitytile
08-14-2008, 08:31 PM
hey atlas whats happening next year. so u got any free cup wheels:D

johntrent
08-14-2008, 08:32 PM
Wow - Thanks - that was some good reading! Bill - I wish there were more people who took your "educating" stance - I came into this trade with info from the big boxes as the gospel - so I can honestly say I know what failures mean. Only after beginning to work with a mud man did I truly start to understand their were alternatives to punch work. I actually used to quote my local tile distributor when talking to my customers "A tile shower is only good for 7-10 yrs before they need replaced". The way mfgs/dist and other industry wigs portray there products to the DIYer makes it easy for those with no exp to think "you can do it...we can help" but not really understand the destination of the road they are being taken down. I mean - when I started - my thoughts were something like "How hard can it be? They teach Joe Homeowner how to do it every Sat morning - besides - did you see the quote that experienced tile mechanic gave? Wow! that's good money to just stick tile"

Anyway - enough telling on myself - I have learnt alot in my last 12 yrs since then ...

Bill - my point is ......where was you when I needed ya 15yrs ago? :)

Oh yea...other point is my guess might be there are alot of good threads I, and others, have missed out on over the years....gotta make a point to "revisit or revive" a good thread ...maybe once a week?

Sorry for the hijack.

Trask
08-14-2008, 08:40 PM
Well if you can convince me your blades have some distinguishable difference I might actually buy one and test it myself..But if you cant articulate it to me I'm not interested...How you gonna sell blades without telling someone of the merits? Ya gonna give a blade away to every customer..in that case yes talk would be remarkably cheaper by comparison..
Give'me the sales pitch.Your a salesman so sell it to me Whip some Zig Ziggler on my butt and convince me to buy..What makes your company different?...It doesn't even need to be the blades ...as you are aware there are only a limited number of quality manufactures you guys can buy from..that's evident to me in twelve seconds just by looking at your website.Your not manufacturing them yourself...your buying them in bulk like 90% o0f the rest of the diamond blade world. No problem..So is you difference in regards to your customer service???

At some point you have to either contribute to the forum with some meaningful knowledge or step down...so far I've heard no demonstration of technical prowess on your part. If you can talk about matrix engineering of your particular product please do..if you can contribute something meaninful for our guests regarding proper blade dressing or feedrates for specific materials that would be great...But please do something more than stir up the crap here with half- whitted replies that not aimed at a particular end.

silvercitytile
08-14-2008, 08:57 PM
what trask said. did'nt see any blades on your site for $15. so whats for free, tshirts, golf balls, pencils, coffee cups, i once got a free makita grinder with a dozen 4" supreme for $215. still have half a dozen.

Mountain Tile
08-14-2008, 09:03 PM
Trask :goodpost:

mdanforth
08-14-2008, 09:09 PM
just curious, how many here would buy blades from this dipstick???

ramsesblades
08-14-2008, 09:13 PM
Very fun evening! I enjoyed it... You guys stick with your suppliers. You seem already happy with them...

Bill Vincent
08-14-2008, 09:17 PM
just curious, how many here would buy blades from this dipstick???

Well, we're going to find out. We're also going to find out just how good these blades are. I've got ajob coming up that's alot like the one below. Matter of fact, the HO's cousins with the person who owns the house where I did that other entry. Bottom line-- I've got about 600 linear feet of 1" strips of porcelain that have to be damn near perfect to go around the entire entry and hallways. Mr. Atlas has consented to send me a 10" blade to test and see how it lasts. We'll find out just how good this blade is. ;)

Trask
08-14-2008, 09:26 PM
Nothing huh? no insight? no tech info? no sales or mission statement? How these things gonna sell with no info ?

You've had an open and free invite with the greatest concentation of target audience any blade guy has ever had and you can't give your pitch..

Seriously, the keynote speaker at Coverings doesnt get as much exposure. So once again the stage is yours..you wanted it..Step up to the mic...we're listening.


Otherwise Good luck with your sales.

duneslider
08-14-2008, 09:51 PM
Since we are talking about blades, at least some are. Has anyone used those new diteq blades where they have "aligned" the diamonds in the matrix to supposedly create a blade that cuts better and lasts longer? Reading their material about it seems to make sense. Just curious if anyone has tried one.

Trask
08-14-2008, 10:00 PM
Bryan...funny you said that I was reading their catolague today and I noticed that detail..Makes sense to me too as feedrate has very much to do with how the blade clears debris. I've learned alot about this with our CNC and the Ultra High Speed tooling that is all the rage. Diamond matrix configuration can be tweeked in a number of directions that have yet to be addressed..Diateq may well be onto something.. I know Tyrolit Vincent is doing somthing right along those lines..Older style diamond router bits ran 30-40 Inches per min...The new diamond tech we run at 180+IPM..I believe we will see this trickle down to tile saw blades too.

silvercitytile
08-14-2008, 10:04 PM
since atlas hasn't done so, post i linx ehh.

Trask
08-14-2008, 10:10 PM
Why not Free exchange of information is what it's all about right...and the title of the thread is the state of the diamond industry...well lets talk about diamond technology then.

Start where Bryan was talking about..I also find it interesting.btw these guys will sit and talk with you at length about practicle application of particular products. As will any other reputable firm
http://www.diteq.com/ARIXtechnology.htm

silvercitytile
08-14-2008, 10:19 PM
ok we'll wait for those reviews. and then maybe atlas can explain what he's selling. think he needs a sales pitch. might be his question:D

Trask
08-14-2008, 10:25 PM
I currently buy my blades from Diamant Boart..They are the company that makes the Target/Felker diamond tools..I was introduced to them at Coverings as they were in the Felker booth..That was worth the trip alone..Those guys (and consequently Felker) have been in the Diamond Buss. as long as anyone..you want earth changing consistent blades and loads of information talk to them.They most certainly can tell you why their blades are different.

duneslider
08-14-2008, 10:27 PM
With the exception of laser cut tile blades I haven't seen any real advancements worth talking about in a long time. This diteq arix technology sure makes sense on paper. I would like to get my hands on one to see if it lives up to their claims.

cx
08-14-2008, 10:28 PM
You aughta be able to get you some really good tool wear data with that new toy, Trask. Alla time with the same blade speed and feed rate and prolly even bein' able to keep up with linear units of cut, eh?

'Course you'll prolly know a whole lot about replacement costs, too. :)

Bill Vincent
08-14-2008, 10:29 PM
Right now, my 4 1/2" blades come from a local tool supply store, and my 10" blades are Daltile's premium blade. Cost me 109.00, but I've had the first of two blades I bought at the same time, on for going on 18 months! And it's not like the saw's been sitting in the garage, either! We'll see what happens with this one, though. The blade he's sending me isn't the 15.00 blade, though.

This is the one he's sending me:

http://www.costcuttingblades.com/collections/ceramic-tile-blades/products/supreme-hot-dog-killer-tile-blade

Should I show him what I think of the Hot Dog Blades? :D

http://powerpr.com/articles/articles.asp?include=971

Trask
08-14-2008, 10:38 PM
Just like anything diamond CX it depends on what you feed it and how fast. :) Does make a big difference if you climb cutting though..That goes back to that Arix tech Bryon mentioned..clearing the crud out from between the stock being cut and the blade should make a huge difference in how fast you can cleanly cut and still give you good tool life.

The Ultra high speed Tech in the CNC world has yet to be understood by me..But one guy told me it has to do with the diamond fracturing in the matrix and not just being cleared out of the bond.The fracture is important because a fractured diamond is sharp and instead oif dulling it breaks to expose a fresh sharp fracture. Imagine if you had a tile blade that cut 6 to 8 times faster than anything you've used and did it cleaner and lasted longer..That's what UHS has done in the slab world..It's comin in the tile world I'm tellin ya.

Trask
08-14-2008, 10:40 PM
We used to use Hotdogs to cut radius' on our tile saws :twitch: No joke..that's about all they are good for as far as I'm concerned. Used them alot too..just could never make them work.

TGR
08-14-2008, 11:09 PM
I have two Target Tilematics. I converted one of them to run 8-inch blades. IMO it is a major improvement. Deeper plunge capacity, less blade flex, cost less. I have tried many of the wonder blades but still prefer and get better results out of a TM-5 continuous rim blade.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v651/TGR/seven.jpg

Trask
08-14-2008, 11:20 PM
Todd...if you had the time I think it would be cool to see you do a thread on the conversion..that saw looks first class.. I would like to know more. It could lead to a fun thread about..improv and improved saws ect...

I like the 8" idea too..we run a silent core 8" blade on our CNC and it cuts slabs very well..It's a great concept.

Tile Machine
08-15-2008, 05:38 AM
Wow People! Now that's a sales pitch if I ever saw one!
I just went out and ordered every one of those blades as per your recommendations.
But I tell you what...this guy "Atlas" must think silence and adroit comments will solidify his status here.
As it stands, even if his blades were high quality, I would be hard pressed to even consider buying anything from him because of his lack of information and disrespect for those people here on this forum.
Worse than getting a call from the "other guys" who seem to know our good buddies.

ramsesblades
08-15-2008, 10:01 AM
Trask
Nothing huh? no insight? no tech info? no sales or mission statement? How these things gonna sell with no info ?
You've had an open and free invite with the greatest concentation of target audience any blade guy has ever had and you can't give your pitch..
Seriously, the keynote speaker at Coverings doesnt get as much exposure. So once again the stage is yours..you wanted it..Step up to the mic...we're listening.
Otherwise Good luck with your sales.
It seems the fact that we are making some of our tile blades available for testing and review is getting some members overly agitated. There is no sales pitch to make... Most of you have been accustomed to getting a phone call from a salesman telling you all the great wonders of his product then after falling for the pitch you come to find out the product was not as good as pitched to you. We take a different approach...the customer tells us what he is cutting and then we recommend a product. Consequently, we have Ceramitec testing our "cheap" ceramic tile blade and Bill Vincent testing our Supreme -Hot Dog Killa- Tile Blade.
Why won't all of you just wait until the verdicts on those two blades are proclaimed and then we can have some technical discussion going.Like I have said..there is no need to sweat it I would have assumed that by now most of the members here have a reputable and reliable supplier that provides them with first class products at terrific prices...There is no need to get agitated..our reputation is on the line and I myself am not getting agitated.

Tile machine
As it stands, even if his blades were high quality, I would be hard pressed to even consider buying anything from him because of his lack of information and disrespect for those people here on this forum.
I have never showed disrespect to nobody however I won't let any sarcasm unsanswered. Like I have just said before...If any of you can't handle the heat, please don't fool around the kicthen... :lol1:

Trask
08-15-2008, 10:17 AM
It has nothing to do with the free blades..If I want a blade I will buy it..I have a diamond tool budget that's well over a thousand dollars per month.

I think your missing the inherant spirit of this place. Well...first and obviously its one of tolerance and the free exchange of ideas in this virtual place. Next it is a place where open discussion leads to knowledge and understanding amongst the participants. This doesn't mean in has to be technical dribble..or just idle chat...hopefully it lands somewhere in between.

Ok lets try this... I'm gonna be cutting a colored glass tile with an epoxy back. What would you recomend and why.

HS345
08-15-2008, 10:39 AM
:corn:

ceramictec
08-15-2008, 11:14 AM
we have Ceramictec testing our "cheap" ceramic tile blade and Bill Vincent testing our Supreme -Hot Dog Killa- Tile Blade.so Bill gets a Hot Dog ? :cry:

but seriously, I think the timing that you came here, the fact that the DBW guys were annoying the members here was also bad timing,
now everybody is at each others throats. It also doesn't help much that you elevating it by biting back. maybe just ignore the posts that
seem too forward to you or as an attack and do as Shaugnn ask's in this post and help out answering questions (http://www.johnbridge.com/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=694185&postcount=20)

ramsesblades
08-15-2008, 11:34 AM
We don't actively carry glass blades but below is a good answer to you great question. I could have paraphrased the wise man. It's all about integrity...I believe in it! Try these MK Blades for your glass job: MK-RD-100 Supreme or the MK-215GL Supreme. Why those? You will the answer again right below!

John Bridge
07-11-2005, 06:01 PM
Cutting glass tile can be a challenge using traditional tools. You may score and break a 4"x4" tile using a glass cutter and a ruler. Do not use a tile cutter because the wheels are not angled property to score glass.
An easier method is to use a wet saw with a proper blade for cutting glass. Standard blades used for cutting ceramic tiles, even continuous rim porcelain blades, are too coarse for glass and will rip out little chunks of color from the back of the tile. A better blade is a lapidary blade that uses very fine diamonds, or better yet, you can purchase a very inexpensive electroplated diamond blade. Electroplated blades are very thin and have very fine industrial diamonds plated to the outside of the blade. This prevents most of the chipping associated with ceramic blades. Be sure to cool the blade with water, or turpentine and water that will extend the life of the blade.

Cheers!

Crestone Tile
08-15-2008, 12:05 PM
I have hard time considering the purchase of supplies from a website that has several spelling and grammatical errors. I believe that reflects important things about a company.

Atlas,

You don't seem to be able to provide technical information regarding abrasive cutting technology. Since your posts seem full of sales fluff without direct answers to peoples inquiries, let me ask you a few questions.

What are your qualifications in the abrasive cutting and / or tile industry? If your involvement in these industries is only associated with your current career, what type of training have you received? Are you or your company involved in any trade organizations specific to your product(s)?

ramsesblades
08-15-2008, 12:38 PM
Our sister company, Specialty Demolition and Concrete Cutting is a proud CSDA member. I know enough about the diamond tool business that the bottom line is this: "does the tool live up to the expectations"
Could someone tell me what's the flaw in this regular line in the diamond tool industry: "A blade that cuts faster and last longer"
All the information that needs to be known is posted our website. Use your judgment If you don't want to read it..so be it.... :bow:

Trask
08-15-2008, 02:22 PM
Well I'm running tooling that cuts faster and holds it's shape longer than convential diamond tooling..But that's a seperate debate. The point is the technology does exist and it's being applied in shops like mine around the world. Companies like Regent, ADI and T. Vincent are making and selling them right now. It's only a matter of time until it is perfected and trickels into our blades.
I am interested in the science behind the technology and the challenges it presents to bring a UHS(Ultra HIgh Speed) diamond blade to the market at a reasonable price. It may not be possible yet on low HP saws like what we run for tile. I'm curious why.

ramsesblades
08-15-2008, 02:46 PM
Trask
Well I'm running tooling that cuts faster and holds it's shape longer than convential diamond tooling..But that's a seperate debate. The point is the technology does exist and it's being applied in shops like mine around the world. Companies like Regent, ADI and T. Vincent are making and selling them right now. It's only a matter of time until it is perfected and trickels into our blades.
I am interested in the science behind the technology and the challenges it presents to bring a UHS(Ultra HIgh Speed) diamond blade to the market at a reasonable price. It may not be possible yet on low HP saws like what we run for tile. I'm curious why.
This is certainly something that we will be researching on our side and get back to you later. We look forward to providing a lot of solutions to the tile cutting industry biggest concerns. That will fall in place in time. We expect to become strong partner of this forum but we will do it while staying true to ourselves and not by putting on a face that the crowd around here like.

gwataloo
08-15-2008, 03:29 PM
So here today and gone tomorrow. I say lock this tread and wait and see the results. Because right now it's like abunch of buzzards picking at road kill. :neesie:

ramsesblades
08-15-2008, 03:35 PM
where have you been gwataloo?

Tool Guy - Kg
08-15-2008, 07:13 PM
Does your "superdog" flex any less than the hot dog blades? :shrug:

What do you have for drilling small holes (1/4") through porcelain? And can you recommend an aggressive 5" grinding cup for my bosch 1773 (concrete and thinset grinding)?

silvercitytile
08-15-2008, 09:50 PM
:neesie: friday. no comment. :blah:

Shaughnn
08-15-2008, 10:58 PM
Actually Ramses,
I'm declining your invitation to test your product. I'm busy and you don't seem to be very interested in this forum except in how you can dust up hits to your company's site. Honestly, I don't have a lot of incentive to help you out with this bit of promotion and I don't care to give you my valuable time if your going to squander the very valuable opportunity which Trask has repeatedly illuminated for you. Perhaps your boss could send a better prepared sales person over here? I just don't think that you quite understand what's happening here.
Shaughnn

sgrandjean
08-16-2008, 07:30 AM
Making History sez
we have Ceramictec testing our "cheap" ceramic tile blade and Bill Vincent testing our Supreme -Hot Dog Killa- Tile Blade.

Someone is killing hot dogs now? Stop the insanity!

Cheers.

HS345
08-16-2008, 10:30 AM
Actually Ramses,
I'm declining your invitation to test your product. I'm busy and you don't seem to be very interested in this forum except in how you can dust up hits to your company's site. Honestly, I don't have a lot of incentive to help you out with this bit of promotion and I don't care to give you my valuable time if your going to squander the very valuable opportunity which Trask has repeatedly illuminated for you. Perhaps your boss could send a better prepared sales person over here? I just don't think that you quite understand what's happening here.
Shaughnn
Shaughnn, :goodpost:

ceramictec
08-16-2008, 11:08 AM
Someone is killing hot dogs now? Stop the insanity!Hot Dogs are all that I use. never had a problem with them ever.
I'm not really hard on blades so I will test the "cheap" one and see how fast it will burn up. :D

Bill Vincent
08-16-2008, 11:15 AM
If you read the article I posted earlier in this thread, the blade my partner was using was a Hot Dog blade. It didn't stand a chance even against the standard Target blade that came with my saw.

Trask
08-16-2008, 11:16 AM
Brian that's strange because I hear only two opinions on that blade.. Love or Hate. I personly hate it..can never make it cut straight and I've given it a very fair shake.. I can give the same blade on the same saw to one guy on my crew and he gets great results.

I think my right arm must be stronger than my left or something :uhh:

Bill I feel exactly the same.

ceramictec
08-16-2008, 11:47 AM
when I had it new on my MK I noticed the cuts were a tad off, I kept adjusting the rails to make it straight but to no avail. I was just about to pull it off the saw when I noticed my helper cutting a large tile and very little water was coming out on the left side of the blade. I was like "wait a minute".
I pulled the blade off and the guard, took out the allen key screws and cleaned the water channels out, the left side was pretty clogged with a small trickle of water coming out. well we put it back together and water was flowing good on the blade. did another cut and it was perfect after I readjusted the tray. I even pushed some 19x19 porcelain through hard to see if it would flex or cut bowed....nothing.
years ago I was cutting absolute black granite on a few jobs and would kill a blade per job. we mostly cut ceramic & porcelain with about 20% marble, mostly Travertine and I don't burn up blades fast at all. we also use 4" grinders to make some cuts on the job.

cx
08-16-2008, 12:02 PM
Our friend Jason Butler (http://www.johnbridge.com/vbulletin/member.php?userid=44) has raved about them Hot Doggies for years.

I ain't never tried one. :shrug:

Splinter
08-16-2008, 12:20 PM
I picked up a hot dog for a travertine project... As I pushed the first piece through, I watched the blade flex more than anything I've ever seen... :eek:

I removed the blade and it's been sitting on the junk shelf in the trailer since. I'm using an MK101 and the table is adjusted perfectly... Why type of saw are other Hot Dag haters using? Was I just pushing the travertine through too fast?

ceramictec
08-16-2008, 02:52 PM
I have the blade on the same saw and just finished a Travertine job with it...is your water pumping out on the blade on both sides correctly ?

I'm thinking about re routing the water to my blade with 2 of those adjustable hoses like Trask just showed on his one saw, the more water the better.

ramsesblades
08-16-2008, 04:39 PM
Shaughnn
I'm declining your invitation to test your product. I'm busy and you don't seem to be very interested in this forum except in how you can dust up hits to your company's site.
I can't blame you man. You outta do what's more beneficial to you.
Thank you for your time though!

ramsesblades
08-16-2008, 04:47 PM
Tool Guy - Kg
Does your "superdog" flex any less than the hot dog blades?
What do you have for drilling small holes (1/4") through porcelain? And can you recommend an aggressive 5" grinding cup for my bosch 1773 (concrete and thinset grinding)?
To answer to your first question. Our Supreme Tile Blade hardly flex when operated appropriately.
I will get back with you on your two other questions on monday.
Thank you for your patience!

ramsesblades
08-16-2008, 05:13 PM
First of all it is our most popular and best selling wet tile blade! The "Spider-SLOT" is designed for the professionals who need fast, chip-free cutting in a wide variety of hard ceramic tiles, porcelain, marble, and other stone material. These blades are very much narrower in width than other types of turbo blades, and they sport a very fine, smooth rim. The "Spider-slot" interuptions make the blade a bit more aggressive, without losing the chip-free cutting of a continuous rim blade. The slots also allow water to get into the groves and help with cooling, lubrication all while enhancing precision and stability..
Waiting on the verdict! :lol1: :bow:
Ohh I forgot to mention that we stand firm behind our product and our suppliers stands tall behind what they supply us with as well. We do offer a no quible guarantee. 90 Days or exchange or your money back, period. By the way we often, for our asphalt, cured concrete blades, request the factory to modify the diamond bonding matrix according to the type of aggregate our customer are dealing with. I proudly stand here and reiterate that we are not your average diamond blades salesmen...We do our homework on the tools we order from our suppliers. We don't just accept whatever comes out of the factory. We are truly dedicated to excellence in everything that we do.

Davestone
08-17-2008, 08:26 AM
The two best blades i have used for porcelain are the low cost jslot American Eagle,and the more expensive Cyclone.The cyclone is thick and aggresive with little chippng,and positively no wander,it has a small 4"circular stiffening piece on the side, and the edge is shaped like a small hand grinder turbo blade. the jslot is thinner and cheaper but lasts well with no wander like the hot dog.Haven't tried your blades but got tired of trying so called porcelain blades years ago :bow:

ramsesblades
08-17-2008, 08:38 AM
Davestone
The two best blades i have used for porcelain are the low cost jslot American Eagle,and the more expensive Cyclone.The cyclone is thick and aggresive with little chippng,and positively no wander,it has a small 4"circular stiffening piece on the side, and the edge is shaped like a small hand grinder turbo blade. the jslot is thinner and cheaper but lasts well with no wander like the hot dog.Haven't tried your blades but got tired of trying so called porcelain blades years ago
If you've got tile blades that work to your satisfaction then stick with them buddy.
Thanks for your contribution

Shaughnn
08-17-2008, 09:23 AM
Dave,
I'm a fan of the J-Slots also.
Shaughnn

java
08-17-2008, 10:37 AM
Dave and Atlas are buddies?

silvercitytile
08-17-2008, 11:39 AM
dave them j-slot american eagles rock. they aren't $15 though. :cry:

Davestone
08-17-2008, 12:03 PM
I'm everybody's buddy. :yeah: $15.00,yeah i wish, more like $55.00 here i think. :bow:

ramsesblades
08-17-2008, 01:00 PM
Since you all are having a quick outa $15 tile blades. Who in here can show me where exactly is it advertised on our webstore that we are offering a 10" Tile blade for $15? The person who finds it will get 10 MK/Any other brand Tables saw of his choice and a year's supply of MK/Felker Tile Blades! Go on and laugh now :neesie:

Trask
08-17-2008, 01:02 PM
Not gonna have much luck finding any blades for a tile saw that are 15$ Unless your tile saw runs 4" blades :)

ramsesblades
08-17-2008, 01:24 PM
It's not because most of you never heard of Costcuttingblades.Com that you have to automatically assume that we sell crap. We don't claim to be big and we don't even want to be big. We are a small group of hard working men and women some of which are demolition contractors that understand what it means to own reliable and slow wearing tools. We undertand that our core customers are the small the medium size contstruction businesses. Small to medium sized business cannot stand to see their hard earned dollars go to waste like general contractors would.
It's too bad that the diamond tool business is filled with sharks...but remember not everybody is out to take you the cleaners! Once the reviews are in I belive that a lot of you are going to cool down.

TGR
08-17-2008, 09:32 PM
I have followed this thread but I am not sure if ramsesblades is offering technical advice or not but if he or anyone else is I have a question I would like answered. I just got a saw ready for use today. It had been sitting around for a while so I gave it a small tune up checking for alignment etc. I got the saw working and tracking near perfect so I thought I would try out a stack of blades I have. After I got the saw working I cut large pieces of Fiberock and found the saw to be very accurate. The saw is a Tilematic. Out of the 8 or so blades I tried only one had seen a lot of service. All the others looked very good and have lots of matrix left. Three of the blades cut 18x18 inch porcelain perfect. Three of the blades veered very hard to the right. One of the blades veered of left. One found the trash. Two of the blades that veered hard right are nearly new 10 inch Felker TM-5s. What gives? Why do blades do this? Please do not tell me it is the saw because it is not. Also before I tested any blade I did a few cuts though a rub brick to expose new diamond. Of the ones that cut well only one was designed specifically for porcelain. It was a J-slot. By the way the blade that got tossed in the garbage because the cut was so bad was a hotdog. Ramsesblades if you have any input I would appreciated it. Thanks. :)

ramsesblades
08-18-2008, 01:42 PM
Todd:
First of all going from the your premise that your saw is running true, the most likely reason that a blade is "rearing" is because it is warping. Many blades for tile are marketed as porcelain blades when they actually are not. The hardness of porcelain creates an enormous amount of heat as compared to ceramic.
Running your blade in brick is a good idea to help open the matrix however a piece of rough, soft cinder block would be better. Regardless I have experienced that if a blade is glazed very badly, even this wont help.
Another thing which might come as some surprise is that if you cut with the same water recirculating all day the slurry tends to negate the water's cooling effect. Therefore you may want to try changing the water--in the event you are doing so--if it becomes hot. Hot water won't cool the blade, and porcelain tile will dissipate heat at a much greater rate than softer tiles. :twitch:

ceramictec
08-18-2008, 01:49 PM
I used the cinder block trick often.

and dumping a bag of ice in your water tray will keep your water nice and cool :D

ramsesblades
08-19-2008, 05:26 PM
Tool Guy
What do you have for drilling small holes (1/4") through porcelain? And can you recommend an aggressive 5" grinding cup for my bosch 1773 (concrete and thinset grinding)?
As promised, we do not have anything for drilling small holes through porcelain.
And for grinding concrete and thinset, we recommend our swirl cup wheel, it will take care of that bizness for you!

Scottish Tile and Stone
08-19-2008, 08:02 PM
you guys have anything for grinding down some classico limestone? I need to take down some lippage before re-polishing.. Thanks

ceramictec
08-19-2008, 08:31 PM
Scott,

you might need to look into a Terrazzo machine for that.
how bad is the lippage and how big is the area?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MFFpkX2rToo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0UKyQlxRuEQ

ramsesblades
08-19-2008, 08:51 PM
Theold--scottyb:
you guys have anything for grinding down some classico limestone? I need to take down some lippage before re-polishing..
If you plan on using a grinding machine then I would recommand our Cup "Wheel Turbo" designed for fast stock removal of for granite, or marble, or limestone, or Sandstone. You should also take a close look at what Brian aka "ceramitec" sugessted above.

Bill Vincent
08-19-2008, 08:55 PM
Sorry, but I have to disagree. You put a terrazzo grinder on that limestone, and you'll find yourself coming up thru the ground in China in no time! :D :D :D That limestone is pretty soft!! Unless your lippage is severe (keeping in mind that I'm NOT real knowledgeable about refinishing stone floors) I'd think that a refinishing grinder with 50 grit pads would do it. No?

Davestone
08-19-2008, 09:05 PM
Yeah, take it easy Tigers,sometimes it's best to start at 100 metal bonds, and if you need more go down to 50.Last thing you want is gouges or deep scratches you have to spend a long time getting out.I would only use the cup wheels for doing edging. :bow:

ceramictec
08-19-2008, 09:13 PM
You put a terrazzo grinder on that limestoneno grinding, polishing and refinishing.
you wont use the hardest that the machine would start with.
the terrazzo machines work down from very hard to a soft.
I would recommend the softer pads.

got to watch the video links to see your not using hard grinding.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0UKyQlxRuEQ

Bill Vincent
08-19-2008, 09:47 PM
Okay, that's what I thought. Brian, that's no terrazzo machine. I've done hundreds of thousands of feet of terrazzo, and all the terrazzo machines I've ever seen, either used diamond matrix metal plates, or carborundum stones. You try using machines like that and you won't stop till you hit dirt. The LIGHTEST standard floor grinder I've ever used was 5 HP, 220v 30 amp single phase. What you showed me in that video is pretty much using a buffing machine set up for refinishing.

here-- not including border machines or cove (maul) machines, this is about the smallest terrazzo grinder you'll find:

http://www.werkmaster.com/stone1600S.htm

This is more the norm:

http://www.jimsandercompany.com/enlarged_photo_pages/d_grndng_terrazzo_30_in.html

Tool Guy - Kg
08-20-2008, 02:04 AM
What do you have for drilling small holes (1/4") through porcelain? And can you recommend an aggressive 5" grinding cup for my bosch 1773 (concrete and thinset grinding)?Tool Guy

As promised, we do not have anything for drilling small holes through porcelain.
And for grinding concrete and thinset, we recommend our swirl cup wheel, it will take care of that bizness for you!Your boss is allright. :tup2: Now can I get a link to the product? I see swirl cup wheels, but no 5"ers. :scratch: :shrug: And can I ask if there is a standard diamond cup wheel height? I wouldn't want a cup that was too short or tall to fit my machine where it would mess up using the dust shroud.

Scottish Tile and Stone
08-20-2008, 05:29 AM
Its only 40' in my foyer. Lippage isnt bad at all. Just wanted to kinda practice on getting it flat.

ramsesblades
08-20-2008, 10:46 AM
Tool Guy - Kg Said:
Your boss is allright. Now can I get a link to the product? I see swirl cup wheels, but no 5"ers. And can I ask if there is a standard diamond cup wheel height? I wouldn't want a cup that was too short or tall to fit my machine where it would mess up using the dust shroud.
What do you know about my boss? :blah:
On a more serious not we do not actively carry the 5"ers however we can special order it for you (check your PM Box for pricing detail and wait time).
Now keep in mind that the 4 1/2" will work on a 5" grinder and only gives 1/4" less coverage all around. In fact you would admit that the difference between 4 1/4" and 5" is very negligible.
As far as the height is concerned, it should not be an issue at all. It's never been an issue as a matter of fact. Manufacturers themselves hardly ever provide that info.
Again check your PM box if you want to know more about the 5"ers.
I would rather not post links to our products on this open forum. I think it's better that I provide any link on a case by case basis and by making it available solely to the requester. It will be up to the requester to share it with other members.

ceramictec
08-20-2008, 11:25 AM
Bill,

Yeah the smaller ones that do more of a polishing type marble restoration.


what where you thinking I was talking about ?
something like this for his floor....
http://i34.tinypic.com/2hdb3oo.jpg
I wouldn't let Scott use this,
It doesn't have an airbag.

Bill Vincent
08-20-2008, 11:41 AM
As I said above, the first machine I linked to is the smallest terrazzo grinder I've ever seen or used, and even that's too big.

ceramictec
08-20-2008, 11:51 AM
Bill,

you were able to view the videos In my post right ?

they are small machine, not your huge terrazzo grinder.

http://www.johnbridge.com/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=698340&postcount=131

Bill Vincent
08-20-2008, 03:15 PM
Yes, I did, and commented about it in my first post after you posted it.

Tool Guy - Kg
08-21-2008, 12:46 AM
Tool Guy - Kg Said:

What do you know about my boss? :blah: Judging by how you responded twice and by the timing of this last post, it appears that your boss knows how to answer my questions.


Now keep in mind that the 4 1/2" will work on a 5" grinder and only gives 1/4" less coverage all around. In fact you would admit that the difference between 4 1/4" and 5" is very negligible.No, I wouldn't. :shake: It appears that you don't have experience grinding up to obstacles (walls, cabinets, etc.). With a protective shroud around the wheel, the tool is limited on how close it can get. The object is to grind close enough to it to easy get the perimeter of your tile close enough to the obstacle to hide it under a piece of shoe...or even tighter, base tile.


As far as the height is concerned, it should not be an issue at all. It's never been an issue as a matter of fact. Manufacturers themselves hardly ever provide that info.I know manufacturers don't. It's up to a reputable wholesaler/retailer to dig answers up and provide info like that for guys that like paying $100 for grinding cup wheels.


Again check your PM box if you want to know more about the 5"ers.
I would rather not post links to our products on this open forum. I think it's better that I provide any link on a case by case basis and by making it available solely to the requester. It will be up to the requester to share it with other members.Huh? :scratch:

This is starting to be difficult. I like helping folks, but don't feel a fair shake when I have to educate a supplier.

ramsesblades
08-21-2008, 05:19 AM
Tool Guy - Kg
No, I wouldn't. It appears that you don't have experience grinding up to obstacles (walls, cabinets, etc.). With a protective shroud around the wheel, the tool is limited on how close it can get. The object is to grind close enough to it to easy get the perimeter of your tile close enough to the obstacle to hide it under a piece of shoe...or even tighter, base tile.
A the end of the day it's still 1/4" less coverage protective cover or not.
Tool Guy - Kg
I know manufacturers don't. It's up to a reputable wholesaler/retailer to dig answers up and provide info like that for guys that like paying $100 for grinding cup wheels.
That just brings up the issue of relevancy...there is 99.99% of chance that the grinding cup wheel will fit in your grinder like a glove. We have a no quible return policy. If it doesn't fit/work, send it back to us and get your money back minus shipping.
Tool Guy - Kg
This is starting to be difficult. I like helping folks, but don't feel a fair shake when I have to educate a supplier.
You are the one making this more difficult that it needs to be sir...you are inquiring about a grinding cup size that is very uncommon. I bet you have thoroughly shopped around before coming to us cause only a handful of retailers will be willing to get you that size grinding cup wheel. I have given you the price and delivery time for the 5"ers through a private message...that's the most appropriate thing I could have done.
I am starting to think that this is turning more into some "true or false" game where the expected outcome is we get more "falses" than "true".
I believe that we have done our best to address most of your concerns. It's now up to you to judge whether or not we are worthy to earn your business.
Either way you go...no hard feeling!

Bill Vincent
08-21-2008, 07:45 AM
You are the one making this more difficult that it needs to be sir...you are inquiring about a grinding cup size that is very uncommon.

Uhhhh... Hang on a second. Bosch makes a couple of different models, and that the size cup they take (5"). They're pretty popular up this way, too.

As for that 1/4", I think you're missing the point. The shroud will only allow the machine so far into corners, no matter how big the cup. With the 4 1/2" cup, it's just that much more work that must be done by hand.

ramsesblades
08-21-2008, 09:42 AM
Allright, Bill
Uhhhh... Hang on a second. Bosch makes a couple of different models, and that the size cup they take (5"). They're pretty popular up this way, too.
Well I will be more than grateful if you could point me to any supplier online that carries 5" Swirl type grinding cups.
Bill continues...
As for that 1/4", I think you're missing the point. The shroud will only allow the machine so far into corners, no matter how big the cup. With the 4 1/2" cup, it's just that much more work that must be done by hand.
It's not like I haven't offered him the choice to get a 5" grinding cup. If he is time pressed then we might be the wrong people to get it from because he will need to wait couple weeks. I am stressing the 4 1/2" because it gets him started ASAP.
As far as I am concerned the topic is closed cause I have gone over everything that needed to.
Thanks bill for your constructive contribution. It's always welcome! :yipee: :twitch:

Bill Vincent
08-21-2008, 10:23 AM
http://www.granitecitytool.com/showitem.cfm?itemnum=67&catnum=14&pcatnum=91&mcatnum=92&n=Q4%20Double%20Row%20Diamond%20Grinding%20Wheels

http://www.masterwholesale.com/details/1155670328.html

http://www.masterwholesale.com/details/1155670332.html

http://www.masterwholesale.com/details/1155670366.html

Those are just a few. Believe me when I tell you, I could fill up a page.

ramsesblades
08-21-2008, 10:50 AM
Show me the 5" swirl cup wheels Bill? :neesie:

jgleason
08-21-2008, 10:58 AM
A 10 second search returned these...

http://www.granitecitytool.com/showitem.cfm?itemnum=74&n=Dia-Plus%20Turbo%20Cup%20Wheels%20with%205/8%E2%80%9D-11%20thread

http://www.fastenal.com/web/products/detail.ex?sku=0849650

http://www.mcgillswarehouse.com/ItemsList.aspx?groupID=10422&GN=DIAMONDGRINDERCUPS

ramsesblades
08-21-2008, 11:07 AM
Thank you. Now you have helped Tool Guy - Kg find his cup wheel. Good job.
By the way the first link you posted had showed the 5" out of stock...
Good job though :bow:

jgleason
08-21-2008, 11:26 AM
Hi Atlas,

Thanks. I'm a computer guy, true enough. I also have spent most of my working life in technical theatre and some years in general construction.

I'm not in the tile business myself but it is like anything else. If your work requires you to have certain tools and supplies, you will have a list of preferred suppliers to get the bulk of what you need. Occasionally you'll look elsewhere, particularly if a current supplier can't get something for you when you need it.

What really matters (to me at least) is the following:

1. Can I get what I need in a timely manner?

2. Will my supplier respond quickly to my phone calls or emails?

3. Does my supplier know his product line and is he/she knowledgeable to suggest alternatives based on my job requirements?

4. Are the prices competitive?

Major turnoffs:

1. Supplier hard selling of the latest/greatest and touting some miracle, world-changing, life altering experience by buying product XYZ.

2. Quoting a price/availability and then failing to deliver as promised.

3. Knocking the other suppliers in the industry. If you're good you don't need to do this.

ramsesblades
08-21-2008, 11:50 AM
Very nice intro!
Almost every question that you have asked has been addressed one way or another in our "About Us" and "Shipping & Returns" pages. Like I once said, the owner of the company understands what it means to be a contractor because he is one of them. We believe in doing things right the first time. I understand that people are very skeptical of the diamond blade industry because of all those horror stories. I will stop right there. I believe time is gonna tell if we will live up to our own aspirations and to the diamond tools market. :uhh: