dave99 first shower [Archive] - Ceramic Tile Advice Forums - John Bridge Ceramic Tile


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06-22-2008, 08:06 AM
hi everyone, thanks for being here . I am planning to rip out old tiled shower and renew tiles. Should I anticipate problems unscrewing the 3 bolts from top portion of drain assembly. My house is 50 years old with iron pipes and on slab. The pan is lined mud type. I was hoping to replace only top portion of drain assembly when retile.
Question...Wondering if 3 screws will be rusted-in and break off. Never did this type of job before. Any advice appreciated. Am i opening a can of worms ??

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06-22-2008, 08:15 AM
They will definitely be rusted in,and break away.You may need to get an (inside pipe cutter) to accomplish replacing it. :bow:

06-22-2008, 08:23 AM
Depending on how it's done, sometimes it is easier to dig down past the Ptrap and cut the line there, then use a Fernco fitting to tie in a new trap and drain. :)

06-22-2008, 08:26 AM
I agree with Dave,

the mud gets saturated with water therefore those bolts would probably be rusted pretty good.

Crestone Tile
06-22-2008, 09:22 AM
Hi Dave,

I would just like to add that it's a good idea to consider what Davy mentioned about replacing the trap. It's not as ominous as it may seem.

I'm assuming it is, but is replacement of the entire pan system the plan, or are you trying to replace just the tile itself?

06-22-2008, 09:30 AM
Yeah, what Matt said. I think all of us would recommend a new pan while replacing the old drain. :)

Crestone Tile
06-22-2008, 09:34 AM
I just asked because of the intent to only replace the "top" portion rather than the entire drain assembly.

06-22-2008, 10:01 AM
Great advice ,,,, Yes i was planning to replace mud pan and new pvc pan liner at same time.
Will bottom portion of two-piece drain assembly unscrew from trap (pipe) ?? or will i likely have to cut pipe in slab as suggested. I would think replacing trap is a bear on a slab foundation. All sounds a little intimidating at this point !! My shower is 30X32" with off center drain. Existing shower and tile are working well-- except wife wants nicer looking tile :blah: .

06-22-2008, 11:27 AM
well if the drain, bed & waterproofing is good wy not consider tiling over the existing tile.

you can use a drain extender and accomplish this.

06-22-2008, 11:35 AM
I guess he could, depends if the pan is 50 years old. :)

06-25-2008, 12:02 PM
Hi, I'm retiling shower with 6 inch porceline tiles spaced 1/8". Is sanded grout the preferred choice ??
thank you for your experienced advice.

06-25-2008, 12:08 PM
At 1/8", it's a toss-up. Sanded grout is stronger, but may be more difficult to apply. Unsanded is easier to apply (and looks better according to some), but is weaker than sanded grout.

If any of your grout joints exceed 1/8" in spots, I'd stick with sanded.

06-25-2008, 02:12 PM
At an 1/8" you're stretching non-sanded. Definitely stick with sanded. :D

06-25-2008, 02:40 PM
Personally, I would use sanded. Better yet, a product like Tec XT will give you a stronger and stain resistant grout.

06-25-2008, 03:06 PM
hi again, thanks again for advice.
Trying to decide which backer board to place behind tile in shower. Hardware store had "cement looking board with mesh on both sides" and also a stiffer type board "smooth on both sides". salesman said, i could use either.
Which is best product to use ???
Thanks much, dave

06-25-2008, 03:20 PM
I prefer Hardibacker because of the ease of use vs. Durarock. Durarock is much more brittle and it may not to everyone, but it gives me fits.

06-25-2008, 03:20 PM
if the smooth stuff is HardiBacker or Fiberock that's what I like.

cementboards like Permabase, Durock & WonderBoard are good but a mess to cut.

they all work good as long as you install them correctly.

06-25-2008, 03:24 PM
I'm sorry, didn't fully answer your question. I would recomend the smooth surface board vs. the mesh. If you don't cut and plan properly and are not familiar with the mesh type, it can often crack and crumble during installation.

06-25-2008, 03:26 PM
I have been using PermaBase for years (don't care for Hardi), but I have recently began using DensSheild which I am really liking. Less wear and tear on my body with the lighter stuff.

06-25-2008, 03:37 PM
thanks, thanks, and thanks more.
Nothing beats knowledge and experience .

06-25-2008, 03:40 PM
They all will get the job done. Comes down to personal preference.

Crestone Tile
06-25-2008, 04:08 PM
Sanded. :)

06-25-2008, 04:21 PM
I second the dens shield, started using it when it first came out and have never looked back.

06-25-2008, 04:38 PM
I love the stuff Sal. At this point in my career, if its lighter, its better.

06-25-2008, 07:07 PM
When I bought my tile, I also bought my thinset and grout from the same place (Ciot Toronto). Because I was using highly polished porcelain tile, they suggested that I mix half sanded with half non-sanded. They warned me that using sanded may scratch the surface. I've not done my work yet so I don't know if this is a good idea or not.

06-25-2008, 07:16 PM
Sanded grout will not scratch the tile. Use either one. It's a matter of what would you prefer to see into the joints...sanded or non-sanded!

06-25-2008, 07:20 PM
I'd use sanded. :)

06-25-2008, 08:24 PM
Denshield or DensGuard from Lowe's equals a lifetime guarantee if installed to their specs. It's what I use every time.

Tool Guy - Kg
06-25-2008, 10:24 PM

Most folks have a preference.

For me, I don't care for sealing the exposed edges of DensShield or the material they make it from, so I avoid it. Durock is my preference on the wall. But I'll use permabase or Hardi if my first choice is hard to get when I need some. :)

Crestone Tile
06-25-2008, 10:35 PM

So if you mix half and half, the tile will only get half as scratched, right?

I'm not knocking you, Alan, just the advice that you were given. Go ahead and use the sanded if you'd like. :)

06-26-2008, 10:54 AM
Matt, I asked the exact same question :) I was told that it was 'less likely' to scratch if mixed half/half. Sanded it is for me too :)


06-26-2008, 11:10 AM
Got the suggestion on this board but it was hard to locate and I used what I know--Hardibacker.I will try EZ-BOARD and their website movie sure makes it tempting.I am getting too old to life/pound,etc.

06-28-2008, 02:01 AM
hi, prior to ripping-out my old tile, i measured the tiled floor slope to drain. My shower is 36X36 and the slope is about 3/4" (to drain). Thats 1/2" per foot. I know thats more than required.
Question: Is there a problem with 1/2" per foot slope on such a small shower?? I can understant that if the shower was very large, i would end up with many inches of slope-(like a hill).
I kind of like the idea of fast drainage away from floor perimeter.
Also, does the floor perimeter need caulking after grouting has cured ??
thanks many times over :)

06-28-2008, 04:42 AM
Nothing technically wrong with your slope. If you can stand on it and feel comfortable, then it's fine.
All change of planes should be caulked. No grout in those joints at all.

06-28-2008, 08:40 AM
Welcome, Dave. :)

I've combined all your threads for this project here. Please bookmark this one and use it for all your project questions so folks who want to help can see the history and what's been previously axed and answered, eh? Any moderator can change the title to something more generic if you like. :)

06-28-2008, 10:19 AM
Thanks CX :idea: , Can you please rename threads to "dave99 first shower".
There seems to be no end to my many questions !!
Question: Is there any need to glue PVC liner to mortar bed and liner blocking?? If so, what kind of adhesive, roofing cement ? I have seen info saying its optional.
Also, i want to thank everyone again. This forum is super friendly, super informative and super fast :yipee:

06-28-2008, 10:39 AM
I'll change the title for you, Dave.

Don't glue the liner down. Do it just like the thread in the Liberry instructs and you'll be fine.


07-01-2008, 09:08 PM
hi, need advice again,
removed hot mop shower pan and was able to separate two piece drain with no problem. I did not remove sloped lower mud.

Problem is top of lower drain assembly sits about 1/2" above mud. Thinking of adding about half dosen or more layer of roofing paper to raise level existing mud.
Really dont want to mess with leaded cast iron drain in slab nor rip out lower sloped mud. What you think ??
Any other way to raise 1/2".
I will be using PVC liner and want it even with drain to avoid puddling around drain assembly.

07-02-2008, 03:01 AM
A fella might be able to raise his pre-slope that little with some fat mud, Dave, but I'd a whole lot rather see you remove the existing mud and make a new pre-slope under there. Not a difficult task and good practice for making your final mud bed later.

My opinion; worth price charged.

07-02-2008, 09:50 PM
Thanks CX, ripped-out old preslope as you advised.

Crestone Tile
07-02-2008, 09:52 PM
Good move :tup2:

07-03-2008, 05:20 PM
Thanks for expert advice. Doing the job myself gives me new respect for tile installers. Definitely not an "easy" job.
Very labor intensive and everything is really heavy (I'm 60 years old :crap: )
Anyway, preslope mud is in (1:5 mud mix, & thinset slurry to slab.
Question today: the PVC liner backer boards and stud are a litthe rough after cleaning off old hot mop.
I wanted to cover them with a layer of roofing paper to smooth things out.
Whats do you think ????
How about a layer of roofing paper under PVC liner to smooth bed and act like underlayment ???
:topicoff: Thanks to everyone again and have a wonderful 4th and opportunity to celebrate our great USA.

07-04-2008, 09:25 AM
Hi Dave, I use to put felt paper under all my pans untill I heard from somewhere that the chemicals in the felt degrades the liner. I don't know if it's true but I stopped putting it under there. I would probably smooth it the best I could, pan liner is purty tough stuff. As long as nothing sharp is sticking up, should be okay without the paper. :)

07-04-2008, 07:48 PM
thanks guys for all the valuable advice :yipee: .
Todays question : I believe i am suppose to fill the bottom back of the CBU with thin-set where it overlaps the PVC liner to maintain a solid wall. Would that be the entire perimeter or just on the latticed studs.

07-04-2008, 07:57 PM
Very labor intensive and everything is really heavy (I'm 60 years old :crap: )Quit whinin', you're just a kid. :D

You don't need to "fill" that gap, Dave, just pewt a few fat dollops back there to set up and make good, solid stand-offs. And just pewt'em wherever you need'em.

You don't got no gap, you don't need no steenkin' thinset; you got a gap, pewt some. You got a little gap, pewt a little; you got a big gap, pewt a big ol' dollop.

Is easy. :)

My opinion; worth price charged.