Envy

[ddmoit]

The other day in another post, I made a comment about envy and how a bias against envy was one of the best contributions that Christianity has bestowed upon Western civilization.

Today, by coincidence, I found this article by Dave Ramsey on the subject of envy.

http://www.daveramsey.com/media/pdf/butt_scratching_and_bass_fishing_transcript_by_dave_ramsey.pdf

If you don't have Acrobat Reader, then use this link: http://www.daveramsey.com/etc/newsletters/company/062708.cfm?ectid=cnl0806_06#1

Some of you hard-working pros in business for yourself might see yourself in the man Dave calls "Henry".

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[Davestone]

I'm more the Henry type envying John. :yeah:

[kate42]

Dan :wave:

I'm confused. Maybe it's the late hour. What does envy have to do with this story? What am I missing? :)

[Bonus]

What does God have to do with any of it? If Henry wasn't God-fearing then he should have his hard earned money taken away?

[tileguytodd]

tax every single person the same

On the surface this of course seems to be a very reasonable assesment & sounds like the absolute Fair thing to do.

But let us peek just a Bit further

a young couple is starting out in a tough economy and would love to own a home but must rent for now...They work hard at their jobs, those jobs that were available and recieve an average of 12.00 per hour between them with the Man making more ( this is a typical situation in a working class home)

They take home aproximately 700.00 per week between them or 2800.00 per month.
They have cars they can afford that likely have over 100,000 miles on them
They have an apartment in the best neighborhood they can afford which isnt the best but at 900.00 a month they really cant move to a better one & still manage to save 100.00 a month towards a downpayment for a home. ( incidently this means 5 long years to be able to purchase a 60,000.00 trailer house or Old fixer upper on the wrong side of the tracks.

Now..........Taxing them the same as a man who makes 340,000.00 per year will only manage to knock them completely out of the run for home ownership while hurting the other gentleman far more...He can no longer buy a BMW and will have to settle for a Cadillac and may have to actually drive it 1 extra year (3 years)before trading it in for a new one.

Am I saying the young couple should NOT have to pay taxes & the man making well over a quarter million a year foot the entire bill?? Of course not.

What I AM saying is that Same percentages Hurts far more those with far less income and to the point where Something suffers.....they go Without Clothing or Heat or eat very poorly......With a heavier tax burden is the man making 340 thousand dollars per year going to suffer in ANY of these critical area's???
NO.

This is why this is NOT a simple issue and while I can Understand why a man earning high income feels it unfair, He May feel differntly were HE wearing the other shoe...........1 shoe because he cant afford the pair!!

Even taxation hurts the poor far more than the wealthy and while on the surface it may not Seem fair, its far LESS fair to have a very large percentage suffer a lack of basic life necessities so a Wealthy man can buy a 42' Yacht rather than a 39' yacht.

There is a Very big difference in Making It in the world when you take home
250,000.00............-VS-
25,000............................

My opinion, feel free to give yours, you are allowed ;)

[John K]

While " the man" was studying in school and goal setting. The "young couple" were playing. That's why they live in an apartment and are barely making ends meet.

We should punish the man, so we can even the playing field? :)

[HS345]

We should punish the man, so we can even the playing field?

Yes, in the name of "fairness".:wtf:

[tileguytodd]

While " the man" was studying in school and goal setting. The "young couple" were playing.

Yep, that would be what Kids do.......

So you are advocating putting children to work?? They were likely 3 years old while that guy was studying & in school and working at building a business to that level of personal income......Remember, I Said a Young couple.......:)

How many in their early 20's are making 350,000.00 per year, particularly anybody in ther early twenties who would be considered by an Author to be "Very Well Read" ??? Know Any??

I dont!!! ;)

Realistically if you take away 5000.00 from someone who only has 10,000

or that same 5000 from someone who has 100,000 who gets HURT MORE??

[dgunnels]

I disagree with Todd. I think everyone should be taxed at the same percentage rate. Make more money, pay more taxes. Make less, pay less. This will also eliminate what I consider to be unfair tax breaks for procreation/adoption or for being married.

[HS345]

I agree with you for the most part Nessie. Except that there is no tax break for married couples. In fact there is a penalty. Though the evil Bush admin has lessened it. The standard deduction for married couples is less than two times the standard deduction for single individuals. So the gummint actually rewards living together out of wedlock.

[dgunnels]

I just KNEW we shoulda stayed shacked up. :blah:

[e3]

and thats the way it is.
http://www.watchdogonwallstreet.com/politics_life/THE%20TRUTH%20ABOUT%20TAXES%20February%202003.pdf

[ddmoit]

I've seen that before, Eric. I think it's a pretty decent analogy.

[John Bridge]

I'm a proponent of a flat rate tax. You can give everybody a universal exemption if you like (to satisfy Todd's concern about lower income earners), but everybody gets the same exemption regardless of how much money he might make. If you truly want "fairness," that's as close as you'll come. :)

[tileguytodd]

Your allowed to disagree John...Aint the first time :D

But while were taxing everybody, What do you say we throw a Big ol TAX on all them Unwed mothers sporting 4 or 5 kids from 3 or 4 different fathers......

Leave enough to shoe perhaps the oldest and then let him/her hand down to the next & the next & the next etc...........It can be 1912 Kentucky Hill Country all over the USA

& forget givin em Housing, We are recycling perfectly good card board boxes.........Give em a free roll of Duct Tape & A Box cutter....1 per household mind you!!
& No More FOOD STAMPS...Give em seeds and Make em grow their own food.( more card board boxes taken care of)
This situation Should also take care of the homeless Pet problem we have in this country.......Them strays will look pretty good for sunday dinner!! :D

[ddmoit]

What do you say we throw a Big ol TAX on all them Unwed mothers sporting 4 or 5 kids from 3 or 4 different fathers......Todd,

Surely you're aware that a good many of the folks that find themselves in such a predicament do so as a consequence of their own actions. Unfortunately, our government has done much to encourage and reward such behavior. The last thing it wants to do is run out of dependents. They can vote too, ya know.

[e3]

I understand both sides of this better then I wish I did.
I have one daughter who works two jobs putting in about 12 hrs a day,and many times weekends.She's part time at both with NO benifits.Works her @#$ off.
The other is a single mother of two(same father just never married ) He's now left..She can'nt affort to work! Thats right! Cannt affort ..By the time she pay's day care for two she netted $12.00 a week.Instead she runs a day care (baby sits) and sqeaks by. Both have the same collage degree.They both complain..There are many people that need help.And the system needs help..neither of mine are lazy ,one just has her self in a bad spot or hole that with out help, may never get out of.Sure its her own fault,but with out any help,please send box for three! With help maybe some day she'll return the favor!

[John K]

There is help, and there is help. One is sucking off the system, and the other is being in a tight spot and needing a leg up..

I would bet the majority are using and abusing the system with their "need" for help. :)

[johnnyhomeowner]

i like the flat tax idea
i also like CASH when i get paid too.........

[matman]

The Politics of Envy.....such drama After reading that story I wonder if ole Dave has ever written a non fiction article since high school.

Politics aside, a flat tax rate sounds good but would it be enough to run this country? The issue is money, and it takes a lot of money to run this country, to keep it competitive and healthy.

Where do you think you're gonna get all that money? Shakin down the people working in the aisles of Wal-Mart? It would be a shakedown , those people gotta be broke. Trimming the welfare budget a few bucks? I don't think there's enough money there.

Nobody likes govt. waste but with so much money changing hands, yeah it's gonna happen. Gotta just try to stay on top of it.

Back to politics, a counterpoint :)

At the end of Dave's fairy tale he mentions to the reader that if you should come across anyone who's opinion differs from his just turn them off. In other words, I am all you need, to know the truth. What could be more elitist than that!!!

Stir the pot :)